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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-09-2012, 10:59 PM
  #451
aqib
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I dont really care what your opinion is in that regard aqib. Quite specifically, did you respond to mine own & others requests for information, media sources with links pursuant to the City of Glendale being in Contempt of Court?... Waiting.
I'm sorry did someone, yourself included ask me to provide information, media sources with links pursuant to the City of Glendale being in Contempt of Court? My last post prior to the one you responded to was about the possibility of Jamison owning the team in a market other than Glendale which already has designated owners. Prior to that my last post was about Joyce Clark's radio interview. I haven't seen any posts directed at me requesting that link


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11-09-2012, 11:03 PM
  #452
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I'm sorry did someone, yourself included as me to provide information, media sources with links pursuant to the City of Glendale being in Contempt of Court? My last post prior to the one you responded to was about the possibility of Jamison owning the team in a market other than Glendale which already has designated owners. Prior to that my last post was about Joyce Clark's radio interview. I haven't seen any posts directed at me requesting that link
Not that I want to get in the middle of an argument, Aqib. But, do you have any information or a link about that court case?

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11-09-2012, 11:12 PM
  #453
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Not that I want to get in the middle of an argument, Aqib. But, do you have any information or a link about that court case?
quite frankly I am confused as to which court case Killion is asking me

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11-09-2012, 11:13 PM
  #454
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Not that I want to get in the middle of an argument, Aqib. But, do you have any information or a link about that court case?
I know this wasn't directed at my posts but it is quite apparant that if a court case did happen today the Arizona media and majority of the population was completely ambivalent to the ongoings.

who cares? GJ is buying the team in 2 no 3 weeks.

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11-09-2012, 11:16 PM
  #455
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quite frankly I am confused as to which court case Killion is asking me
There was a case heard today that was CoG vs GWI. It had to do with the CoG being in contempt for not releasing documents which were asked for in a FoIA situation.

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11-09-2012, 11:33 PM
  #456
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There was a case heard today that was CoG vs GWI. It had to do with the CoG being in contempt for not releasing documents which were asked for in a FoIA situation.
Ah ok. I wasn't at my computer as much as usual so I was unaware of it.

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:45 PM
  #457
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BTW are either of the council races other than Clark's still being contested? Cactus is 112 votes apart (Lieberman's seat) and that seat the winner will probably be seated early and Frate's seat is 135 votes apart.

Not sure if there are still absentees and provisional ballots to be counted

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Old
11-09-2012, 11:50 PM
  #458
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... so do we know? What went down in Maricopa Superior between Goldwater
vs Glendale?... or do I hafta phone Clint?.. as in Eastwood... for an answer like?.

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11-09-2012, 11:51 PM
  #459
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BTW are either of the council races other than Clark's still being contested? Cactus is 112 votes apart (Lieberman's seat) and that seat the winner will probably be seated early and Frate's seat is 135 votes apart.

Not sure if there are still absentees and provisional ballots to be counted
Many votes still to be counted - no winners declared. It should be imminent, if not two weeks, or maybe it will be a whole new kettle of fish.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...new-mayor.html

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:18 AM
  #460
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... read it. Like a lousy Eastwood film. Coogans Bluff. Maricopa County.
Lee J.Cobb. What the Hell do you people expect? Perfection on a Budget?

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11-10-2012, 10:39 AM
  #461
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Even though they force this new lease come nov 27th, GJ won't be able to close the deal. Unless he magically found millions in the last couple weeks of course. This guy had 15months to close this deal under a much friendler AMF and city counsil but couldn't make it.

I don't believe he'll magically be able to close this deal now with the new AMF that's likely to be less profitable for him, a cc opposed to the deal just waiting to be sworn in and the GWI still waiting in the dark to shut this thing down.

If CoG, the NHL and GJ wanted this deal done, they had the last 15months to do it. I believe GJ and the NHL are probably putting more energy in trying to find a way out of this mess than to make this thing work.

My 0,02$.
Agree! GJ and his latest pronouncement of a deal with COG is more blunder and hot air! Each and every time this huckster gives us a date and fails to perform further illustrates his status as GB`s lap dog sent to the desert to keep the patient on oxygen for a few more weeks or months while GB fiddles in NYC to find a new market or ownership group elsewhere.

The new deal for GJ will be so pitiful as to to be funny even to those of us who have called his bluff for the last 18 months. Please people understand this man has no money or portfolio! To think that his name still is used with some modicum of hope is laughable. Once the new mayor and Council have been seated they will tell little Greg to take a hike or will present him with a deal that gives him little money and little support. The fact that the City would fare far better without the Coyotes is now reality to those who understand that the difference between a loss of 5MM is better than a loss of 12MM. Three weeks, a month five months a year it does not matter this deal is DOA.

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11-10-2012, 10:43 AM
  #462
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Agree! GJ and his latest pronouncement of a deal with COG is more blunder and hot air! Each and every time this huckster gives us a date and fails to perform further illustrates his status as GB`s lap dog sent to the desert to keep the patient on oxygen for a few more weeks or months while GB fiddles in NYC to find a new market or ownership group elsewhere.

The new deal for GJ will be so pitiful as to to be funny even to those of us who have called his bluff for the last 18 months. Please people understand this man has no money or portfolio! To think that his name still is used with some modicum of hope is laughable. Once the new mayor and Council have been seated they will tell little Greg to take a hike or will present him with a deal that gives him little money and little support. The fact that the City would fare far better without the Coyotes is now reality to those who understand that the difference between a loss of 5MM is better than a loss of 12MM. Three weeks, a month five months a year it does not matter this deal is DOA.
You should attend the 27th council meeting and tell them this, also tell them that Joyce is nothing more than a sore loser, she only cares about her well being and image.

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11-10-2012, 10:50 AM
  #463
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Congrats to the Coyotes' fans on the tax increase being passed. Looks like everything is lined up to put this silliness to rest - once and for all.

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11-10-2012, 11:00 AM
  #464
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I have to agree with CF here. Legend, if you get that impression from reading the article, I don't know what to say. My personal opinion is that Clark is an incompetent public servant, but that article did not reinforce my impression at all.
Clark is one of the most incompetent elected officials I have ever seen. Unfortunately, some members of our forum have a limited understanding of governance and the extent of their review is something like this: "Me like Coyotes. Clark vote for Coyotes. Clark best leader ever."

Now, for a bit more on what that audit really revealed and why it could have a significant impact on the JIG deal:

1) Beasley directed senior managers to participate in a balance kiting scheme to make the General Fund appear whole.

Glendale is required by law to have a balanced budget. However, the city was spending more than they had. To solve that problem, Beasley did not stop spending, instead, he directed staffers to perform accounting gimmicks where they transferred amounts from accounts such as Risk Management and Workers Comp Trust Funds to the General Fund. Beasley and the staffers did not notify anyone that they were making these transfers. The result is the General Fund appears balanced with expenditures but in reality it is way, way short.

2) Reconciling the improper transfers will likely require budget cuts.

The biggest concern about the Beasley Transfers is that the funds have to be replaced, immediately. The city is required to meet minimum levels of funding in accounts such as Risk Management and Workers Comp. They're going to have to take money out of the general fund (as the GF was the beneficiary of the Beasley Transfers) and put it back in the RM/WC accounts. But the city is already tapped out. In order to pay back the RM/WC accounts, the city is going to have make some more budget decisions on what to cut.

As chair of the Risk Management Trust Fund Board, Clark received the audit report and then went to a meeting about it on October 4. The transcript shows that Clark called the audit nit picky. After the meeting, Clark did not immediately forward any concerns to the full council. Now, I don't think for a second that Clark was trying to be sneaky or hide anything, she's just incompetent. Clark is so under qualified for her position that she didn't understand what the audit findings meant with respect to the General Fund balance. For that reason alone, she should be removed from office.

For my friend Legend, I hope this helps you better understand what a true hit piece could have looked like. It would have been completely valid and really easy to rip Clark apart. That's not what the newspaper article did.

Oh, and by the way, the audit was only for the RM/WC accounts. The city has no idea how many other accounts kited balances to the General Fund to make it appear whole.

3) Beasley's early retirement incentives

The audit report found that Beasley approved an early retirement incentive plan for city employees that was assessed a penalty of $3.2MM by the state retirement system (ASRS). Quickly for those who don't follow public pensions: state boards determine an annual rate of retirement by forecasting how many state workers eligible for retirement will actually retire. The state uses that forecast for their budget. If a municipality does anything to incentivize employees to retire, the state assesses a penalty to that municipality for screwing up the states forecast. In Glendale, Beasley rang up a $3.2MM bill but never reported it as an expenditure in any budget. The General Fund now has to repay that assessment.

Bonus) Rigged contracts, dodged RFP requirements, manipulated payments

Beasley created a "per project" scheme where he paid contractors amounts under $50k so they wouldn't have to be reported instead of the ethical practice of "per initiative" contracts. Basically, if you performed a $300k service for the city, Fast Eddie allowed you to invoice 6 separate projects at $50k each so your contract didn't have to be approved by council. He also allowed brokers to perform services and receive payments beyond scope of their RFPs.

Beasley should be indicted. And yes, this is the same Ed Beasley who constructed the JIG lease.

What does it mean for the Coyotes?

The city had massive budget problems going into this fiscal year. They had to make a series of serious cuts just to get the current budget in place. They avoided having to re-do the entire budget when the sales tax increase was kept in place. But they are going to have to deal with this sudden and unexpected hit to the General Fund. Skeete said during the workshop that the General Fund balance was "less than zero". He estimated it is probably negative $20MM-$25MM. I don't see how Skeete can bring forth the JIG lease at this time as the JIG lease guarantees additional multi-million dollar losses to the General Fund.

The crap will probably hit the fan on Tuesday as the Budget Amendment item is on the agenda. I'd like to believe the report that the JIG lease will be voted on Nov 27 but I have a feeling the whole thing is going to be DOA after the Tues evening meeting. The bottom is falling out pretty quickly. But, it's still Glendale and we might see the lame duck council steam roll ahead with the JIG deal.


*Killion, I didn't follow the Contempt hearing but I'll get some details and post when I have a chance.

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Old
11-10-2012, 11:43 AM
  #465
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Congrats to the Coyotes' fans on the tax increase being passed. Looks like everything is lined up to put this silliness to rest - once and for all.
I see it very differently, being that this won't pass (will be stopped or delayed somehow, as it should be if it's based on giving money to pro-sports millionairs - same **** as in Edmonton, remember?) and that the Yotes are finished in Arizona.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:10 PM
  #466
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In 2002-2003 the Coyotes were nobodies but midtable compared to the league and they had 13.2k fans in average attendance.

2003-2004 they had a worse record and managed to move up to #19 with 15.5k fans avg a game.

2004-05 there was a lockout and you would assume that it would mean trouble for the desert team. But...

in 05-06 they improved there 03-04 record, still bottom 7, but managed to keep there avg attendance around 15.5k and be #22 in avg attendance.

06-07 they continued to lose games and as expected they are go down to 15k fans.

07-08 they improve their record but not enough as coyotes drop another 100 avg fans.

08-09...record doesnt change and att stays the same...


2009 NHL buys Phoenix, Wayne Gretzky resigns as coach.

BUT THIS IS THE PART THAT BAFFLES ME...

IMMEDIATELY the next season the Coyotes win the division. They win 50 games out of 82... wow. And the attendance DROPS LIKE NO OTHER!

The Coyotes get bought out by the league... Not that Gretzky was a good coach lol, or great or w.e.. but new one comes in and they improve their home 10 fold.

50 wins... and there attendance drops like never before! They go from 14k to 12k!
WOW


Next season, Phoenix continues to be a force in the west. Fan attendance goes up only by 200 seats. You think a really bad team becoming a consistent playoff team would have improved its attendance back to what it was when it had a bad team with 14 or 15k fans.

Last season Pheonix showed for a 3rd straight season its consistency and exciting play but attendance never went above 12.5 avg.

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11-10-2012, 12:13 PM
  #467
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My theory is that when the NHL took over... it made a smart move by basically changing coaches and staff. But it also probably didnt care about marketing of Phoenix, it didnt care much about advertisements and doing off the ice stuff to make the teams success more well known.


Is it just me or is that true lol.

I mean unless having Gretzky as a coach brought in an extra 3k fans even though they were a bad team during his tenure.

my point is now that they have a real ownership with a money he will sure to care about and a franchise he will care about... im sure Phoenix will increase its attendance. Well once NHL comes back

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11-10-2012, 12:21 PM
  #468
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Beasley should be indicted.
... damn straight he should be.... and by special request, all the way
from the Golden Gates, Ladies & Gentleman, your Special Prosecutor



Last edited by Killion: 11-10-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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11-10-2012, 12:23 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
In 2002-2003 the Coyotes were nobodies but midtable compared to the league and they had 13.2k fans in average attendance.

2003-2004 they had a worse record and managed to move up to #19 with 15.5k fans avg a game.

2004-05 there was a lockout and you would assume that it would mean trouble for the desert team. But...

in 05-06 they improved there 03-04 record, still bottom 7, but managed to keep there avg attendance around 15.5k and be #22 in avg attendance.

06-07 they continued to lose games and as expected they are go down to 15k fans.

07-08 they improve their record but not enough as coyotes drop another 100 avg fans.

08-09...record doesnt change and att stays the same...


2009 NHL buys Phoenix, Wayne Gretzky resigns as coach.

BUT THIS IS THE PART THAT BAFFLES ME...

IMMEDIATELY the next season the Coyotes win the division. They win 50 games out of 82... wow. And the attendance DROPS LIKE NO OTHER!

The Coyotes get bought out by the league... Not that Gretzky was a good coach lol, or great or w.e.. but new one comes in and they improve their home 10 fold.

50 wins... and there attendance drops like never before! They go from 14k to 12k!
WOW


Next season, Phoenix continues to be a force in the west. Fan attendance goes up only by 200 seats. You think a really bad team becoming a consistent playoff team would have improved its attendance back to what it was when it had a bad team with 14 or 15k fans.

Last season Pheonix showed for a 3rd straight season its consistency and exciting play but attendance never went above 12.5 avg.
The argument on the other side of that would be what's the point in cheering for and spending money on a team that you're 90% sure won't exist next season. It would be a poor argument seeing how all we've heard from the fanbase the last 5-6 seasons was wait until we see how attendance rises when the team wins consistently, but you could make it.

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11-10-2012, 12:30 PM
  #470
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BTW are either of the council races other than Clark's still being contested? Cactus is 112 votes apart (Lieberman's seat) and that seat the winner will probably be seated early and Frate's seat is 135 votes apart.

Not sure if there are still absentees and provisional ballots to be counted
IIRC seating the Cactus Dist. winner still would take a majority vote. Now, in the spirit of the thing, they could go ahead and vote in favor to do so (as the 4 Horsemen of Incompetence still retain majority i.e. 4-3).


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11-10-2012, 12:38 PM
  #471
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^ yeah but alarge groups of people in those cities are willling to pay for a hockey team.

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its consistency and exciting play but attendance never went above 12.5 avg.
Phx was a pretty boring team to watch outside playoffs. Tippet's the worst.

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11-10-2012, 12:44 PM
  #472
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In 2002-2003 the Coyotes were nobodies but midtable compared to the league and they had 13.2k fans in average attendance.

2003-2004 they had a worse record and managed to move up to #19 with 15.5k fans avg a game.

2004-05 there was a lockout and you would assume that it would mean trouble for the desert team. But...

in 05-06 they improved there 03-04 record, still bottom 7, but managed to keep there avg attendance around 15.5k and be #22 in avg attendance.

06-07 they continued to lose games and as expected they are go down to 15k fans.

07-08 they improve their record but not enough as coyotes drop another 100 avg fans.

08-09...record doesnt change and att stays the same...


2009 NHL buys Phoenix, Wayne Gretzky resigns as coach.

BUT THIS IS THE PART THAT BAFFLES ME...

IMMEDIATELY the next season the Coyotes win the division. They win 50 games out of 82... wow. And the attendance DROPS LIKE NO OTHER!

The Coyotes get bought out by the league... Not that Gretzky was a good coach lol, or great or w.e.. but new one comes in and they improve their home 10 fold.

50 wins... and there attendance drops like never before! They go from 14k to 12k!
WOW


Next season, Phoenix continues to be a force in the west. Fan attendance goes up only by 200 seats. You think a really bad team becoming a consistent playoff team would have improved its attendance back to what it was when it had a bad team with 14 or 15k fans.

Last season Pheonix showed for a 3rd straight season its consistency and exciting play but attendance never went above 12.5 avg.
Those attendance figures are bogus according to Judge Buam numbers at the bankrupcy hearings.Inflated to get max revenue sharing.Also its not tickets sold,its tickets distributed.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:58 PM
  #473
aqib
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
In 2002-2003 the Coyotes were nobodies but midtable compared to the league and they had 13.2k fans in average attendance.

2003-2004 they had a worse record and managed to move up to #19 with 15.5k fans avg a game.


BUT THIS IS THE PART THAT BAFFLES ME...

IMMEDIATELY the next season the Coyotes win the division. They win 50 games out of 82... wow. And the attendance DROPS LIKE NO OTHER!

50 wins... and there attendance drops like never before! They go from 14k to 12k!
WOW


Next season, Phoenix continues to be a force in the west. Fan attendance goes up only by 200 seats. You think a really bad team becoming a consistent playoff team would have improved its attendance back to what it was when it had a bad team with 14 or 15k fans.
You can attribute the jump in 2003 to the new arena. Teams always get a boost when they move into a new venue. There is a curiosity fact. The drop in the first playoff season is understandable because it was right after the summer of bankruptcy. Also teams usually see a bounce in attendance the year after have a breakthrough season performance wise.

As for the comments about the lack of marketing usually major league sports teams, particularly those that are winning don't need to do much of it. Just saying

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11-10-2012, 01:24 PM
  #474
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^ yeah but alarge groups of people in those cities are willling to pay for a hockey team.



Phx was a pretty boring team to watch outside playoffs. Tippet's the worst.
If the rules were interpreted the way they were during the first season back from the last lockout, they would always be shorthanded.

They play the game the way it was played during the dead puck era.

All reaction and no proaction, without a hint of offensive creativity.

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11-10-2012, 01:37 PM
  #475
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The city had massive budget problems going into this fiscal year. They had to make a series of serious cuts just to get the current budget in place. They avoided having to re-do the entire budget when the sales tax increase was kept in place. But they are going to have to deal with this sudden and unexpected hit to the General Fund. Skeete said during the workshop that the General Fund balance was "less than zero". He estimated it is probably negative $20MM-$25MM. I don't see how Skeete can bring forth the JIG lease at this time as the JIG lease guarantees additional multi-million dollar losses to the General Fund.

The crap will probably hit the fan on Tuesday as the Budget Amendment item is on the agenda. I'd like to believe the report that the JIG lease will be voted on Nov 27 but I have a feeling the whole thing is going to be DOA after the Tues evening meeting. The bottom is falling out pretty quickly. But, it's still Glendale and we might see the lame duck council steam roll ahead with the JIG deal.


*Killion, I didn't follow the Contempt hearing but I'll get some details and post when I have a chance.
I still can't understand who in their right mind would be counterparty to the lease with Glendale. The Tohono conspiracy theory actually seems to make the most sense since they probably want the COG to default.

It's astonishing really. They're about to enter into an agreement with a party that will become their single largest creditor and to our knowledge they don't even know who it is, never mind what their true intentions are.


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