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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
11-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So you're jealous of the players? At least you are being honest about it. I'm too old to worry about how much someone else is making.
Absolutely, no shame either

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11-09-2012, 08:55 PM
  #27
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As if every team can spend to the upper limit and all teams have the same cap situation.

You seem to think I give a crap about who's pockets are getting lined. All I care about is the hockey angle and the cap is a part of hockey and the strategy of building a team.
So you want the highest possible cap so that the richer teams have an advantage, but you are also complaining that the players are greedy and make too much.

Seems like a disconnect.

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11-09-2012, 08:58 PM
  #28
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So you want the highest possible cap so that the richer teams have an advantage, but you are also complaining that the players are greedy and make too much.

Seems like a disconnect.
No not at all. I prefer no cap actually. In this instance though the NHLPA is getting bad advice.

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11-09-2012, 09:06 PM
  #29
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Although Gregg Zaun isn't associated with hockey, he had one of he better quotes I've heard about the potential loss of a season.

"Fehr didn't come out of retirement to lose to the NHL"

I think the egos involved will keep the puck from being dropped. If Fehr and the players don't concede, I just don't see how this thing gets resolved in the short term.

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11-09-2012, 09:18 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Although Gregg Zaun isn't associated with hockey, he had one of he better quotes I've heard about the potential loss of a season.

"Fehr didn't come out of retirement to lose to the NHL"


I think the egos involved will keep the puck from being dropped. If Fehr and the players don't concede, I just don't see how this thing gets resolved in the short term.
I remember him saying that.

Bettman is going to wish he hadn't busted the Union last time.

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11-09-2012, 09:41 PM
  #31
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Well we can put that made up rumour to bed.

Players know all about the offers.

SN has covered it off a couple times.

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11-09-2012, 11:04 PM
  #32
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Bettman and Fehr have absolutely nothing to do with the Hall of Fame.

They're non-hockey contractors.

Why anyone has suggested the HOF would impact negotiations is ridiculous.

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11-09-2012, 11:22 PM
  #33
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Idiots.

Put me in the room with Fehr and BEttman with a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue (gonna get my 1st bottle tomorrow) and a case of JR and some nice stoggies.

I'll have this thing wrapped up in no time.
You would be left sitting alone in your room, pockets picked, with Gary and Fehr in the lobby wrestling with the case of JR out the door.

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11-10-2012, 09:17 AM
  #34
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Time to fold the league break the union and form the NAHL, North America Hockey League!
Wow that would be awesome...How about the new WHL....World Hockey League with Conferences in Canada, USA and Europe. That would be epic.

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No not at all. I prefer no cap actually. In this instance though the NHLPA is getting bad advice.
As fans of the richest team.....why shouldn't we? I couldn't care less if there were teams in Florida, Arizona or anywhere else that can't support a team. The Leafs should be able to pay the best hockey players in the world to play in the best hockey market in the world. Why can't they have a luxury tax like they do in baseball?


Last edited by Hurt: 11-10-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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11-10-2012, 09:55 AM
  #35
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...ers-union.html

they took a run at him. They want to see if there's any internal dissent, pressure within the NHLPA to push him out.

It's a big game of chicken right now. What we wait to find out is this: did they weaken him, or just make Fehr's position stronger?

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Old
11-10-2012, 09:57 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
So you want the highest possible cap so that the richer teams have an advantage, but you are also complaining that the players are greedy and make too much.

Seems like a disconnect.
Agreed, the higher the Cap ceiling the more rich teams can benefit from it, as the more poorer teams are forced to play at the Cap floor, making the advantage financially for the haves as opposed to have nots greater on competitive advantage by increased spending on players.

However, the more the NHL cuts salaries the lower the Cap ceiling goes and more the bottom and top spending teams is equaled out.

If the Cap ceiling is at $70 mil (presently) then only a handful of teams can spend to the max limit, while 1/2 the league plays near the Cap floor $54 mil (presently) due to affordability and limited budgets. If it drops to $59 mil (as NHL projects by cutting NHLPA share from 57% to 50) then many more teams can spend to the ceiling, and less play at the floor creating financial parity across the NHL.

Perhaps Leaf fans that support Bettman and the NHL don't realize that, as it decreases Leafs financial advantage even greater in a Cap World, unless their desire is to have the Leafs compete equally with all 29 other teams in the belief of fairness for all.

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11-10-2012, 10:10 AM
  #37
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Instead of trying to take down the head of the NHLPA. Get a deal done.

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11-10-2012, 10:33 AM
  #38
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Instead of trying to take down the head of the NHLPA. Get a deal done.
They can't get a deal done if they feel the head of the NHLPA is sabotaging negotiations and not being compromising whatsoever.

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11-10-2012, 10:35 AM
  #39
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They can't get a deal done if they feel the head of the NHLPA is sabotaging negotiations and not being compromising whatsoever.
Obviously.. But that doesn't change the fact of how much time they've wasted with these media games..

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11-10-2012, 10:38 AM
  #40
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Obviously.. But that doesn't change the fact of how much time they've wasted with these media games..
It seems like the NHL is making an earnest effort in getting a deal done but Fehr doesn't seem like he wants to play ball. Media games or not, once they get in that boardroom, something isn't clicking on the PA's side.

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11-10-2012, 10:41 AM
  #41
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Instead of trying to take down the head of the NHLPA. Get a deal done.
Donald Fehr who successful negotiated Major League Baseball CBA in the past in known as a Salary Cap buster and his legacy as a negotiator might be for Fehr to take down Bettman and break the NHL Salary Cap system.

If the talks break down, a future NHLPA proposal might be a Luxuary Tax system as opposed to a Salary hard Cap. Which would be a non starter for the NHL (Bettman) but put pressure on the Owners to cut a deal with Fehr that serves the players best.

Bettman's current tactics of union busting seem to be pushing Fehr into playing hardball.

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11-10-2012, 11:48 AM
  #42
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They can't get a deal done if they feel the head of the NHLPA is sabotaging negotiations and not being compromising whatsoever.
Sportsnet put that rumour (lie) to bed.

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11-10-2012, 11:53 AM
  #43
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It seems like the NHL is making an earnest effort in getting a deal done but Fehr doesn't seem like he wants to play ball. Media games or not, once they get in that boardroom, something isn't clicking on the PA's side.
The PA has been stalling for the 20 months since Fehr was hired.

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11-10-2012, 12:08 PM
  #44
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Sportsnet put that rumour (lie) to bed.
Every NHL player is allowed to attend any meeting they prefer to hear first hand what Bettman and the NHL have to say.

Fehr usually has a contingent of at least 20+ players in his entourage at each negotiating meeting.

How this rumour would be even believable is hard to imagine as that would require all these NHL players to be in cahoots with Fehr and this massive conspiracy cover-up. Thinking that Crosby or Doan or Toews or Weber etc are all exiting these meetings and then all not telling their teammates and fellow NHLPA members the truth of what is going on behind closed doors doesn't pass the smell test of believability.

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11-10-2012, 12:08 PM
  #45
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Owners united?

I doubt it.

http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...n-molson-sales

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Molson-Coors has a reported $375 million sponsorship deal with the NHL and Swinburn said Wednesday the company would probably seek compensation from the league over lost sales.

University of Ottawa professor and sponsorship expert Norm O’Reilly stresses that repairing the relationship with Molson-Coors will be a top priority for the league whenever the lockout ends, especially considering that Geoff Molson owns the Montreal Canadiens.

“This arguably is the best sponsorship the NHL has ever hard,” says O’Reilly, who teaches sports management and sports finance. “It’s a pretty integrated part of what the NHL wants to do…It’s very important that Molson-Coors remains happy.”

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11-10-2012, 12:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Sportsnet put that rumour (lie) to bed.
What part of it? Fehr's uncompromising offers and failure to attempt to reach a middle ground with the owners? Or that he expects players to get paid for 82 games for a 66 game season? Or that every meeting 'didn't go well' because the owners aren't dropping down to the PA's level?

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:15 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Every NHL player is allowed to attend any meeting they prefer to hear first hand what Bettman and the NHL have to say.

Fehr usually has a contingent of at least 20+ players in his entourage at each negotiating meeting.

How this rumour would be even believable is hard to imagine as that would require all these NHL players to be in cahoots with Fehr and this massive conspiracy cover-up. Thinking that Crosby or Doan or Toews or Weber etc are all exiting these meetings and then all not telling their teammates and fellow NHLPA members the truth of what is going on behind closed doors doesn't pass the smell test of believability.
Bettman is just playing games and has no interest in negotiating. He's all about making snide comments.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409215

Quote:
"(We're prepared to do) whatever it takes," said NHL commissioner Gary Bettman on Friday. "We're available and, as I said, we're waiting to hear back from the players' association in terms of when they'll be ready."
I guess he just likes games, just not hockey games. Maybe they should hire a hockey man next time for that job.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:18 PM
  #48
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What part of it? Fehr's uncompromising offers and failure to attempt to reach a middle ground with the owners? Or that he expects players to get paid for 82 games for a 66 game season? Or that every meeting 'didn't go well' because the owners aren't dropping down to the PA's level?
I don't agree with getting paid for 66. I can see the NHLPA point though they could have played 82 games except the owners have no interest in playing all 82 games.

No the made up rumour about the players not knowing the owner's offers. That was complete fabrication by Bettman.

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11-10-2012, 12:22 PM
  #49
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I think the PA is being fair. They are willing to go to 50/50 eventually, but Bettman won't accept a deal that isn't an absolute win for the owners. It seems petty to me. Why not take the gradual slide of honouring the contracts they signed and call it a win. I think it's very fair.

Just because we are desperate for hockey (I sure as hell am) doesn't mean we need to believe everything said in the media. The media controlled by the owners. Don't forget who owns the leafs and what media outlets they have in their empire.

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11-10-2012, 12:24 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I don't agree with getting paid for 66. I can see the NHLPA point though they could have played 82 games except the owners have no interest in playing all 82 games.

No the made up rumour about the players not knowing the owner's offers. That was complete fabrication by Bettman.
The way I see it is: I as a worker do not agree with the boss about a contract deal. The boss tells me I can't work till there's a deal in place; fair enough at 9AM in the morning. We eventually reach a deal at 1PM and work goes till 5PM. I walk in to the boss's office and say "Hey. I should get paid from 9-5 because we couldn't reach a deal and you told me I can't come in!" Wouldn't I get laughed out of the office? It takes two to tango, and the NHLPA clearly didn't have an interest in playing all 82 games in the first place. If anything, the NHL even wanted a full season starting November 1st. That seems like having an interest in a full season to me. Are the NHLPA that much better and of higher value than us 'regular folks' that they should get paid for something they DIDN'T participate in i.e. 82 games?

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