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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-10-2012, 07:45 AM
  #576
RangerBoy
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Knicks owner James Dolan is frustrated the lockout rages on and the club’s season opener tomorrow against the Heat at the Garden has been wiped out. But Dolan, part of the owners’ negotiating committee, is content about one of the agreed-upon aspects of a new collective bargaining agreement: the size of the salary cap will not go down.
Quote:
According to a players source, Dolan has been the least combative of the owners and often serves as a mediator during contentious moments.

“He’s tried to keep the parties on point,’’ the source said. “He’s trying to make a deal, seeing a positive spin. He’s been, in a word, productive.’’
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knick...qYYk4xR4CJ3ApO

Where are the doves and moderates on the NHL committee?

Jeremy Jacobs

Quote:
Tough meeting today. Talks were good this week but some say its because Jeremy Jacobs was not there...until today.
https://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/sta...98709597241344

Talks became nasty.

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Old
11-10-2012, 09:12 AM
  #577
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The worst thing about this lockout is that it's making me hate capitalism and hate unions...

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Old
11-10-2012, 09:15 AM
  #578
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It's sad that I wake up and not care anymore. All the bad news last night and I'm like "Meh... I wonder where Gameday is today?"

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Old
11-10-2012, 09:26 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Actually . . .

If Brooks is correct, and considering how pro-player he is, one has to believe he is, this is absolutely mind boggling. Donald Fehr is doing a hell of a job turning public sentiment against the players.
Read it here first, this is Fehr putting a price on 8/28, later arbitration and all that stuff.

Fehr is killed for it in the press, 50/50 and make whole isn't enough, then in a week -- when there is no time left -- he will accept 50/50 + make whole but nothing else.

The NHL can call the bluff or not...

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11-10-2012, 09:35 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
Fehrs position has always been that the league has has record revenues so why should the players give up a nickel. Absurd as it is. He doesn't differentiate between revenue and profits and has the players brainwashed.
If that's their position I'd just fire them all now and go get replacements.

I'll come back and watch.

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11-10-2012, 10:07 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
That's the problem. The PA feels they are owed something for giving in on the cap. They got paid handsomely in the last CBA. As they will the next one.
Not as handsomely as they could have been. A concession is usually compensated for with incentives. The NHL isn't offering any.

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Old
11-10-2012, 10:15 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Read it here first, this is Fehr putting a price on 8/28, later arbitration and all that stuff.

Fehr is killed for it in the press, 50/50 and make whole isn't enough, then in a week -- when there is no time left -- he will accept 50/50 + make whole but nothing else.

The NHL can call the bluff or not...
This is exactly what I'm thinking...the large percentage demands are Fehr firing back at the owners for their insistance on some contract stuff, not so much he's demanding those things no matter what. If the owners back down from some of the contract demands then he'll probably be a lot more reasonable, and this is really part of the negotiating game. The NHL says "oh we're giving concessions" but realistically it's only compared to where they started from in their first offer. The only thing resembling a concession the NHL has actually given is the make whole deal, and the NHLPA has given up substantial ground on pretty much everything else (agreeing to 50-50 is a pretty damn big concession for them). Seems like there's still plenty of room for a deal but both sides have to be ready to be flexible

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11-10-2012, 10:51 AM
  #583
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Still no word on an #NHL CBA meeting today. There are some back channel discussions planned.

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Old
11-10-2012, 11:21 AM
  #584
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"@Real_ESPNLeBrun: NHL and NHLPA are touching base... Will decide whether they want to resume bargaining later today or not... Me, I'm going home "

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11-10-2012, 12:29 PM
  #585
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NHL concessions... that's rich. From the last cba they are offering none. Oh excuse me, single rooms on the road.

Bettman talked a big game about the NBA and NFL lockouts. They caved too soon. Now he won't eat crow. Jacobs and Bettman need to cut a reasonable deal: 50/50, make whole, 5% variance on contracts. Leave 27/7 alone. Everyone sees the fair deal and they just won't stop with the greed.

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Old
11-10-2012, 12:33 PM
  #586
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My heart can't take much more of this. Figure this crap out, PLEASE.

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:27 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
NHL concessions... that's rich. From the last cba they are offering none. Oh excuse me, single rooms on the road.

Bettman talked a big game about the NBA and NFL lockouts. They caved too soon. Now he won't eat crow. Jacobs and Bettman need to cut a reasonable deal: 50/50, make whole, 5% variance on contracts. Leave 27/7 alone. Everyone sees the fair deal and they just won't stop with the greed.
You sure are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Are you implying the NHLPA deserves concessions? Because your "reasonable deal" contains big time concessions and/or the status quo. The NHL has consistently addressed the 50/50 and make-whole issues - the NHLPA has become the party of no as of late. Fehr has his mostly uneducated constituency brain-washed that revenue and profitability are linked. None of these guys have ever run a business. They make millions of dollars to play hockey and go home - and they will after this CBA is finished as well.

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:40 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Canon1990 View Post
My heart can't take much more of this. Figure this crap out, PLEASE.


Is anyone surprised by Bettman's tough stance? I'm shocked that Bettman is playing hardball.

Fehr was hired to take as tough a stance as Bettman. The PA either thought the owners would cave when they saw Fehr at the meetings or expected the lockout. I'm shocked that there is no resolution to this point. Let's see which side proves me wrong.



The only key date left is when both sides have to truly consider another lost season. If the current meetings official break off, more games will be cancelled and it will be up to the ownership to come up with a final date for cancelling the entire season. My guess is that both sides will maintain their position until we reach that date probably early/mid DEC. . Then we should expect the maximum pressure on both sides (internally) and therefore the best shot at a compromise. Over the next few weeks the more dovish owners and the more marginal players should be putting tremendous pressure on their leadership. Probably an eleventh hour compromise will be reached. I truly don't believe that either party truly wants a completely lost season.

My view: the season will start in mid DEc/Jan 1.

I hope this lockout isn't as scripted as I believe.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 11-10-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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Old
11-10-2012, 01:55 PM
  #589
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I despise Jeremy Jacobs.

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Old
11-10-2012, 02:43 PM
  #590
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I despise Donald Fehr and no one else in this whole fiasco.

The guy lives for this.

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11-10-2012, 03:05 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I despise Donald Fehr and no one else in this whole fiasco.

The guy lives for this.
Yeah, how dare he unite his client base and fight for the best possible deal for them! The nerve of that guy! You'd think it's his job or something.

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:18 PM
  #592
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The players don't care if they play this year, thats why they hired Donald Fehr. He was responsible for the MLB lockout in 1994

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:18 PM
  #593
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Yeah, how dare he unite his client base and fight for the best possible deal for them! The nerve of that guy! You'd think it's his job or something.
If he were actually doing that I'd agree. But at this point he's gotten them to give up a third of the season or more (33% paycut) to avoid a 12.3% paycut.

It's an ego battle. Him (and presumably the PA) care more about sticking it to Bettman than the actual financial results. For his part Bettman is to blame for antagonizing the players to this point.

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:48 PM
  #594
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Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
So no meetings expected today for #NHL CBA talks; Sunday undetermined ... No word who paid for lunch either.

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:20 PM
  #595
Riche16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
If he were actually doing that I'd agree. But at this point he's gotten them to give up a third of the season or more (33% paycut) to avoid a 12.3% paycut.

It's an ego battle. Him (and presumably the PA) care more about sticking it to Bettman than the actual financial results. For his part Bettman is to blame for antagonizing the players to this point.
Agree. No one side or individual is to blame here... They're all to blame in their own ways. At the end if the day they're shooting themselves in the foot, cutting off their nose to spite their face and blowing the whole thing up for $

Ridiculous.

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:27 PM
  #596
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The agreement has to be unanimous? The other owners cant simply outvote Jacobs and his ****** crew?

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:44 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Cynical TyranT View Post
The agreement has to be unanimous? The other owners cant simply outvote Jacobs and his ****** crew?
They have to have 23 votes.

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:53 PM
  #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The players don't care if they play this year, thats why they hired Donald Fehr. He was responsible for the MLB lockout in 1994
correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that a STRIKE instead of a lockout??

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Old
11-10-2012, 05:10 PM
  #599
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"@RenLavoieRDS: Bill Daly and Steve Fehr will be discussing later this evening or in the morning on when NHL CBA talks will resume. "

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11-10-2012, 05:18 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
"@RenLavoieRDS: Bill Daly and Steve Fehr will be discussing later this evening or in the morning on when NHL CBA talks will resume. "
Who cares at this point. Let the stars stay in Russia and eat borscht and let the other bag groceries and let the NHL franchises go bankrupt.

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