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Who Makes the HHOF?

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Old
11-10-2012, 01:59 PM
  #26
MBauer
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Datsyuk gets screwed over by two lockouts, obviously he can still make it but he will lose probably 150+ points from the two lockouts, and i think not having enough points is what could keep him out.

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11-10-2012, 02:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
Datsyuk gets screwed over by two lockouts, obviously he can still make it but he will lose probably 150+ points from the two lockouts, and i think not having enough points is what could keep him out.
Points aren't everything. If a guy like Carboneau is up for consideration, then Datsyuk will be as well.

He's also won four lady byngs in a row and was a finalist for the Hart.

And what do you mean lack of points, he has over 700 and is almost a PPG player. It's not like he's being inducted today or anything. He prolly has 4-5 seasons left.

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11-10-2012, 02:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
How many players have made the HOF as "players" while playing less than 300 NHL games? Exactly, those guys could retire now and should get in (dunno if they will but should).

Going back to the "hall of fame" argument, Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin have been the face of the game for the past half decade, that's long enough to be in the hall of "FAME". Same will apply to Stamkos and Giroux in a season or two, those are some of the most prestigious names in the sport for the time being and not one-season wonders either like Weiland.
Again, not saying they'd be undeserving, but before everyone goes nuts about those 3 I'll bring up another name that's still on the outside waiting, that has a similar resume: Eric Lindros. Hart, Lindsay (Pearson at the time), tied for an Art Ross, led the Flyers to an SCF, 6 time all star (and only wasn't in 95 due to lockout), 1st team center in 95, 2nd team in 96 (to Mario). Was considered, along with Jagr, to be the face of that generation of hockey. All that by age 27 (Ovechkin's age now). And yet he hasn't played since 07 and probably won't sniff the HoF for a while if he even makes it. That's my point. You can be a great player, but unfortunately when it comes to the HoF longevity does seem to count for something.

And yes, I know that Lindros was controversial (especially in his dealings with Quebec, then Philly's management) yet like those 3 he was one of the defining players of his generation.


Last edited by DaveG: 11-10-2012 at 02:10 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old
11-10-2012, 02:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Points aren't everything. If a guy like Carboneau is up for consideration, then Datsyuk will be as well.
I agree but I'm just saying the only thing that could possibly keep him out is points. He is also a really well respected and liked guy which could also be to his benefit to get in.

Trust me when i tell you i think he 100 percent deserves to make it in, but there seem to be a lot of people who aren't so sure. A lot of people have this standard of 1000 points to reach the hhof, which i don't really agree with.

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11-10-2012, 02:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
I agree but I'm just saying the only thing that could possibly keep him out is points. He is also a really well respected and liked guy which could also be to his benefit to get in.
I edited my post above, but he also has over 718pts. It's not like he only has 500 or something.

And 4 byngs. Can't forget those.

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11-10-2012, 02:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I edited my post above, but he also has over 718pts. It's not like he only has 500 or something.

And 4 byngs. Can't forget those.
I agree with you but having an extra 150 points couldn't hurt. A lot of people around here blow off Lady Byngs and say there worthless, i doubt the hhof committee feels the same, but if you actually look at the people who have won the award in recent years it is quite an impressive list of players. Most people just seen it an award given out to the nicest player but forget the high standard of play part imo.

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11-10-2012, 02:17 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I edited my post above, but he also has over 718pts. It's not like he only has 500 or something.

And 4 byngs. Can't forget those.
I think the 3 Selke's and being all of 5 voting points away from a 4th one is even more impressive. He was one of the best two-way players of all time, and definitely the best defensive forward in my time as a fan of the game. And we've seen some damn good ones of both (Francis, Gilmour, Fedorov, Peca, Lehtinen, Brind'Amour, Datsyuk, etc.)

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Old
11-10-2012, 02:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBauer View Post
Datsyuk gets screwed over by two lockouts, obviously he can still make it but he will lose probably 150+ points from the two lockouts, and i think not having enough points is what could keep him out.
If Datsyuk came to the NHL when he was younger instead of 24 years old, there is no way he wouldn't be a lock. Hes the best defensive forward in the NHL, has 3 Selke's, a career PPG player, 2 Stanley Cups, He still has 3+ years left to improve his resume. It doesn't count for much but he's by far one of the most exciting players to watch, his talent out there is above anyone else playing imo, even at 34 he does things that other players can't even think of. I still think he gets in as I think he will finish with 1000 points when his career ends if he stays healthy.

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11-10-2012, 02:49 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I think the 3 Selke's and being all of 5 voting points away from a 4th one is even more impressive. He was one of the best two-way players of all time, and definitely the best defensive forward in my time as a fan of the game. And we've seen some damn good ones of both (Francis, Gilmour, Fedorov, Peca, Lehtinen, Brind'Amour, Datsyuk, etc.)
I agree. Some people were just saying that his résumé was a little light, and I'm just pointing out that its really not.

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11-10-2012, 03:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
That many players from that list will not make it.
Because of the amount? All those players should have a good shot if they continue as is.

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Old
11-10-2012, 03:50 PM
  #36
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Bolded are the definite Hall of Famers from the OP's list:

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson

The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist

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11-10-2012, 03:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Bolded are the definite Hall of Famers from the OP's list:

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson

The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist
What? No Malkin?

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson
The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist


Please bring up any other guys I missed, but would any of these guys make the hall? Would all of them?
You missed a bunch of players but of the ones you've listed I'd say the bolded ones are locks and the rest have a shot.

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla <------Probably/most likely but not entirely sure
Alfredsson <-----Probably/most likely but not entirely sure
The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:03 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Again, not saying they'd be undeserving, but before everyone goes nuts about those 3 I'll bring up another name that's still on the outside waiting, that has a similar resume: Eric Lindros. Hart, Lindsay (Pearson at the time), tied for an Art Ross, led the Flyers to an SCF, 6 time all star (and only wasn't in 95 due to lockout), 1st team center in 95, 2nd team in 96 (to Mario). Was considered, along with Jagr, to be the face of that generation of hockey. All that by age 27 (Ovechkin's age now). And yet he hasn't played since 07 and probably won't sniff the HoF for a while if he even makes it. That's my point. You can be a great player, but unfortunately when it comes to the HoF longevity does seem to count for something.

And yes, I know that Lindros was controversial (especially in his dealings with Quebec, then Philly's management) yet like those 3 he was one of the defining players of his generation.
Good comparison.

If Crosby suffers a career-ending injury the first day of the season (whenever that is), he probably doesn't get in.

If Jagr suffers a career-ending injury the first day of the season, he's in, first-ballot, without any doubt whatsoever.





That's the difference between a LOCK and a very good chance.

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11-10-2012, 07:00 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Bolded are the definite Hall of Famers from the OP's list:

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson

The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist
lolwut? Alfie but no Malkin?

Calder (doesn't lock you into the HHOF, but it looks good on the resume)
Art Ross x2
Stanley Cup
Conn Smythe
Hart
Lindsay
First Team All Star x3

Alfie?
Second Team All Star once
Calder
King Clancy
finished top 5 in points once
1131 NHL games, all with one team

Alfie = Hall Of Loyal and Very Good

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11-10-2012, 07:07 PM
  #41
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This is really interesting for me to read about and see feedback on.

I'm surprised quite a few people aren't including Ovechkin in the "locks" category. Not only do I think Ovechkin will be a lock by the end of his career, but I think if he retires today he probably will get in.

He has, so far:
Art Ross
2 Richards
2 Harts
3 Lindsays
5-time 1st team all star

That seems pretty incredible to me. Not to mention a Calder. He made 6 all-star teams in total. The only players in his position, all-time, to make more 1st-team all star teams were Bobby Hull and Ted Lindsay. He was basically the best player in the world for a period of time. And not just a year, but a few years (arguably).

Has anyone ever had these accolades and not made the Hall?

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Old
11-10-2012, 07:16 PM
  #42
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Locks: Crosby, Ovie, Malkin, St. Louis, Selanne, Iggy, Sedins, Thornton, Brodeur
Maybe: Datsyuk, Stamkos, Perry, Luongo, Lundqvist
No Chance: Alfie, Getzlaf


Last edited by Henrik To Daniel: 11-10-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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Old
11-10-2012, 07:27 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
Locks: Crosby, Ovie, Malkin, St. Louis, Selanne, Iggy, Sedins, Thornton, Brodeur
Maybe: Datsyuk, Stamkos, Perry, Luongo, Lundqvist
No Chance: Alfie, Getzlaf

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11-10-2012, 07:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post
They have a combined

2 Art Rosses
Hart
Lindsay

I certainly wouldn't call them locks myself but has anyone ever won an Art Ross and not made the Hall?

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11-10-2012, 07:34 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?

Crosby: Probably
Ovechkin: Not on this current trajectory, no.
Malkin: He's on the right track
Datsyuk: Maybe...I could see it
Stamkos: Too early to say.
St.Louis: I'd say yes. Maybe a while after he retires, but eventually.
Selanne: Lock
Iginla: Lock
Alfredsson: I'd say he's in but I'm not too sure he's a lock
The Sedins: Maybe
Thornton: I think so. The 92 assist season could do it. But I'd say he needs a cup to lock it in.
Perry: If he maintains this level of production.
Getzlaf: Not the way he's been playing.

Brodeur: Lock
Luongo: Not the way he's been playing
Lundqvist: On the right track.


Please bring up any other guys I missed, but would any of these guys make the hall? Would all of them?
Answers in your edit.

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Old
11-10-2012, 07:40 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Out of the guys currently playing, who makes the Hall?

Crosby
Ovechkin
Malkin
Datsyuk
Stamkos
St.Louis
Selanne
Iginla
Alfredsson
The Sedins
Thornton
Perry
Getzlaf

Brodeur
Luongo
Lundqvist


Please bring up any other guys I missed, but would any of these guys make the hall? Would all of them?

First Ballot Locks: Brodeur, Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin

Locks, but maybe not First Ballot: Iginla, Sedins, Thornton, St. Louis, Selanne

Maybe: Perry, Alfredsson, Datsyuk, Stamkos, Lundqvist, Luongo

I don't see Getzlaf making it unless he gets his act together and starts being consistently a top player.

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Old
11-10-2012, 07:50 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post
Between them:

1 Hart Trophy
2 Art Ross Trophies
1 Ted Lindsay Trophy
Cup Run
Olympic Gold Medal
3 First All-Star Teams (2 Henrik, 1 Daniel)
1 Second All-Star Team (Daniel)

Not to mention they are unquestionably the best players from their draft class.

In Henrik's case, he has captained the team to 2 consecutive Presidents' Trophies. He has also lead the league in assists 3 years in a row (and counting), something only 3 other players have ever done: Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, and Joe Thornton.

They are also the most successful twins in hockey history and I doubt we will ever see two identical brothers play on the same team, same line, and accomplish the things the Sedins have ever again.

And on top of all that, they are still in the prime of their careers and still have many more seasons ahead of them due to their playing style.

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Old
11-10-2012, 07:53 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Datsyuk is an amazing two way player and has won 3 Selkes in a row as well as a handful of cups(3?) and has put up good point totals while doing it. How does he not get in?
Datsyuk's biggest downfall is that he's had two significant injuries (broken wrist and knee) during two of his peak seasons (10-11 and 11-12).

If you simply look at those two seasons statistically, it's easy to forget just how good he was.

During both of those seasons he was on pace for identical seasons as his 07-09 stretch. At the time of both injures he was 4th in points in the NHL and on pace for near 100 pts while being a defensive force. He has consistently been considered a top 3-5 forward, but numbers simply won't show that.

When we think of great players who were plagued by injuries in recent times, Forsberg, Lindros, and Bure always come to mind. It's hard to imagine Datsyuk into that "what if" category, but think about what we've likely missed:

From 07-12, Datsyuk is likely looking at 4 seasons with 95-105pts, 4-5 Selkes, and maybe another couple top 3 Hart finish. That's the type of hockey he was playing without the injuries. One of the great 2-way forward resumes ever.

Instead, people will likely see 2 peak seasons and that's it.

Two significant injuries and teo significant lockouts will have a huge impact on Datsyuk's career resume. How much? Only time and HHOF voters will tell.

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Old
11-10-2012, 08:08 PM
  #49
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Haven't read through this thread but I assume some people are saying Datsyuk shouldn't make it due to point totals. This argument has been made dozens of times and each time people say the same thing. The fact of the matter is that if you estimate who will be retiring alongside Datsyuk and compare his points with those players, he's virtually a lock since he has similar or even better numbers than all of his colleagues.

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Old
11-10-2012, 08:22 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
The Sedins get in but not Alfie? I think you got that ass backwards man.
I don't think it's that backwards. If Henrik and Daniel play the same number of games as Alfie they should have as many points, plus they both have an art ross (and a ted lindsay and hart respectively.) That's what Alfie lacks in my opinion.

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