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N. Kadri discussion thread v12

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:43 AM
  #801
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Kadri-Colborne-Frattin

Cost effective 3rd line once we sign Getz and Perry
Yep, be interested to see that one.

Tanguay plays the passing role for Iggie from the wing position.

Kadri could do the same for Frattin on the Marlies this year if no NHL.

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11-11-2012, 09:47 AM
  #802
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
i have been suggesting that 2nd line for a while now, it could be deadly, grabo and JVR can help out kadri on d side
Kulemin has been a key reason why Grabovski does well as he's usually the first man back covering off defensively.

How well does JVR play defense?

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11-11-2012, 09:47 AM
  #803
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We do have a guy named Phaneuf that the coaches like for shut down detail. He's alright.
Last year he seemed more like an offensive D-man rather than a shutdown D-man. So I wasn't sure if he would be good for that.

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11-11-2012, 09:52 AM
  #804
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Wilson alone has been the single worst developmental hangup for Kadri. If he isnt shipped off I assure you he will start next year no matter what. I can only imagine Carlyle asking himself why this kids not in the NHL yet, and the only reason he went back was rules and regulations last season.

How many REAL stars have the leafs developed in the past 30 years from scratch? Hint if its less than 5 the organization is a complete failure. Players who were shipped off and found their game elsewhere are not included.

I cant even think of one.
Damphousse is one.

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11-11-2012, 09:59 AM
  #805
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I think he could easily out play Bozak. Not exactly a monumental task. So could Colborne.

I also don't see any reason to move forward with MacArthur. I like him, but if you still have a youth movement thing going on, why take up space.
With the new CBA who knows what the rules will be.

And Kadri could maybe outplay Bozak on the wing, but at center? Based on what are you saying that? Sound a heck of a lot more like wishful thinking. Bozak is a center, Kadri who knows?

Back to the new CBA if they implement the non escapable cap hits we likely won't be seeing any veterans moved to make room for kids. Reduced cap on no Finger holes to hide a contract in.

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11-11-2012, 10:06 AM
  #806
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We do have a guy named Phaneuf that the coaches like for shut down detail. He's alright.
I think they tried Phaneuf and Gunnarsson as the shut down, and without the forwards doing their part it doesn't work.

I doubt you'll see Carlyle accepting the defensive efforts Wilson did from the first line. I think Steckel played a bigger role once Carlyle arrived.

Skating is still going to be a huge part of their game but it is going to be in both directions.

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11-11-2012, 10:08 AM
  #807
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I just hope Carlyle tells Burke that he wants to try and see how Kadri plays under him before Burke decides to trade him (if Burke is considering it).

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11-11-2012, 10:15 AM
  #808
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I just hope Carlyle tells Burke that he wants to try and see how Kadri plays under him before Burke decides to trade him (if Burke is considering it).
Anyone can be traded, even Kessel, depending on the return.

If Kadri ++ could land a 1st. line center around 25 years of age I wouldn't lose a minute of peace.

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11-11-2012, 10:26 AM
  #809
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Damphousse is one.
Thomas, Potvin, Wendel. there's a few.

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11-11-2012, 10:29 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
With the new CBA who knows what the rules will be.

And Kadri could maybe outplay Bozak on the wing, but at center? Based on what are you saying that? Sound a heck of a lot more like wishful thinking. Bozak is a center, Kadri who knows?

Back to the new CBA if they implement the non escapable cap hits we likely won't be seeing any veterans moved to make room for kids. Reduced cap on no Finger holes to hide a contract in.
I think Kadri has a lot more skill then Bozak. TB plays better as a 2way center and has established chemistry with Kessel, but given patience and time with Kessel and Lupul, I don't see how Kadri's skill wouldn't be more beneficial offensively. Bozak is very limited, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I think they tried Phaneuf and Gunnarsson as the shut down, and without the forwards doing their part it doesn't work.

I doubt you'll see Carlyle accepting the defensive efforts Wilson did from the first line. I think Steckel played a bigger role once Carlyle arrived.

Skating is still going to be a huge part of their game but it is going to be in both directions.
I don't see how anyone can consider Phaneuf any less then our clear #1D. He is by far our best defensive player. Gunnarson gets his dues, but as a great 2nd pairing minute eater. He can fill in quite adequately as a #2, and is praised by the media for exactly what he is; a great DEPTH player. But there is no question as to who our 1D is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Anyone can be traded, even Kessel, depending on the return.

If Kadri ++ could land a 1st. line center around 25 years of age I wouldn't lose a minute of peace.

I'd do it in a heartbeat. I see Kadri as a good 2nd liner in the future. Easily replaceable.

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11-11-2012, 10:33 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
I think Kadri has a lot more skill then Bozak. TB plays better as a 2way center and has established chemistry with Kessel, but given patience and time with Kessel and Lupul, I don't see how Kadri's skill wouldn't be more beneficial offensively. Bozak is very limited, IMO.
Bozak was always the first guy back, dug the puck out of his own end and played a good transition game to allow Lupul and Kessel to score a vast majority of their points off the rush.

Kadri doesn't look a guy who can play that role as his talent is very much centered around controlling the puck in the offensive zone. Throwing him in entirely changes the dynamic of how the line works, so it's not nearly as simple as saying the Naz has more skill, therefor the line will be better offensively.

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11-11-2012, 10:35 AM
  #812
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Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
I don't see how anyone can consider Phaneuf any less then our clear #1D. He is by far our best defensive player. Gunnarson gets his dues, but as a great 2nd pairing minute eater. He can fill in quite adequately as a #2, and is praised by the media for exactly what he is; a great DEPTH player. But there is no question as to who our 1D is.
I never said anything about Phaneuf not being considered their #1 defender, but that is irrelevant.

You could have had Lidstrom back there but if the forwards played the same things would still be ugly.

It isn't the defense that is the problem it is the forwards lack of defense.

Plus minus isn't the end all and be all, but when the same players continuously have horrible plus minus and other players on the same team have okay plus minus it does mean something.

From team to team plus minus isn't great for comparison, but on the same team with the same goaltender and the same defenders, yes you can take something from it.

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11-11-2012, 12:10 PM
  #813
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Not to compare the two too much but.

Jiri Tlusty

Totals with Leafs

74 gp 10 g 10 a 20 p

Totals with Marlies

105 gp 43 g 60 a 103 p

Controversy

naked pictures, fat from mother's cooking

Traded

3 years, 5.5 months after being drafted

Nazem Kadri

Totals with Leafs

51 gp 8 g 11 a 19 p

Totals with Marlies

102 gp 36 g 51 a 87 p

Controversy

too fat apparently, Wilson mishandling

Traded

Not, but it is now 3 years, 4.5 months since being drafted


Kadri seems to be the more talented player, but both seem to have had issues in Toronto, whether it be their fault, crazy coaches or crazy media. Both players have talent but are criticized for being lazy. Kadri's numbers with the Leafs seem to favour him though Tlusty had better numbers with the Marlies. Both never able to fully stick with the Leafs and always being sent down.

Not saying either player sucks, not saying one is far better than the other, not saying Kadri is gonna be traded. I just see some similarities here. Though if Kadri were traded, it better be for a better return than Phil Paradis. A big difference here though, is Tlusty was JFJs guy while Kadri is a Burke guy.

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11-11-2012, 12:11 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Anyone can be traded, even Kessel, depending on the return.

If Kadri ++ could land a 1st. line center around 25 years of age I wouldn't lose a minute of peace.
Well yes, if we get a great return go for it. But if I just want Kadri to get a fair shot before he gets traded. But if Kadri is one of the pieces that could land a player like Stamkos, go for it

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11-11-2012, 12:12 PM
  #815
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11-11-2012, 12:44 PM
  #816
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Plus minus isn't the end all and be all
it's not even the end some and be some.

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Old
11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
  #817
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it's not even the end some and be some.
Kind of like save percentage for a goalie.

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11-11-2012, 12:49 PM
  #818
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not really.

save percentage is far and away the best single goalie stat there is.

+/- is useless.

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11-11-2012, 12:51 PM
  #819
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not really.

save percentage is far and away the best single goalie stat there is.

+/- is useless.
Disagree.

If you let the other team walk around uncovered in your own zone the goalie's save percentage is going to suffer because the opposition is getting good scoring angles, 2 on 1's, 2 on nones.

If you keep teams to the outside with bad angles saves are much easier.

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11-11-2012, 12:54 PM
  #820
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Save percentage follows goalies around from team to team remarkably well (while always considering goalies can have good and bad years like everyone else).

Plus Minus does not.

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11-11-2012, 12:58 PM
  #821
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Save percentage follows goalies around from team to team remarkably well (while always considering goalies can have good and bad years like everyone else).

Plus Minus does not.
If you want to believe that defense and coverage has no impact on the difficulty of shots allowed go for it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Luke Schenn pass to the opposition player for a uncontested shot being equal to a shot from the perimeter? I don't see it that way.

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11-11-2012, 01:08 PM
  #822
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I've gotta say.. I'm becoming less and less impressed with Kadri as each game goes by. That London Knights playoff run seems like a distant memory at this point..

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11-11-2012, 01:38 PM
  #823
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I know we all want Kadri to have a big year and become the player everyone knows he can be but I have to say that the number of people saying he should replace Mac is alarming.
Kadri is off to a horrible start and the Kadri, Colborne one two punch that we're drooling over is having trouble making an impact with the Marlies. I really don't see them replacing Mac and Grabo anytime soon.

Mac maybe a second line tweener and far from a pivotal player on a Stanley cup team but we're not trying to be a Stanley cup team. We need to be a playoff team first and Mac is the type of guy that can help some of our younger core that have earned spots on our roster actually get some playoff experience.

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11-11-2012, 02:28 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
If you want to believe that defense and coverage has no impact on the difficulty of shots allowed go for it.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Luke Schenn pass to the opposition player for a uncontested shot being equal to a shot from the perimeter? I don't see it that way.
It's not about that, really.

If a defense is good enough to allow fewer quality shots, they're also good enough to allow fewer shots total.

If a defense is bad enough to allow many quality shots, they're bad enough to allow many total shots as well.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to think there's teams that are especially good at preventing quality shots, but still give up many total shots, or that there are teams that can't prevent quality shots, but somehow keep total shots low.

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11-11-2012, 05:26 PM
  #825
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Thomas, Potvin, Wendel. there's a few.
ULF named one, do you think any of those named were real superstars? They were great players I would never take anything away from them but were they like Sundin or a Modano, Hull, Messier etc etc? Big difference I would say, again I loved those players.

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