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Old
11-11-2012, 12:28 PM
  #926
kthsn
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Most of those players will be productive late into their 30s.
Elite goalies play at a higher level into their late 30s than elite skaters do for the most part.

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Looks to be on the decline.
I think the bulk of your argument lies in this statement and I don't see how this can possibly be true.

If you're basing Luongo simply off 1 season then Kulemin looks to be declining to an ECHL talent.
If you're basing it off the 2 games where Schneider started then your sample size is laughable.

Over a reasonable sample size (2 seasons) Luongo has been playing some of the best hockey of his career.

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11-11-2012, 12:34 PM
  #927
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I seriously doubt a trade between Toronto and Vancouver is going to happen. Gillis isn't going to do Burke any favours and I see no reason for Gillis to give Burke a number 1 goalie after the shiet Burke has put Gillis through since Gillis became GM of the Canucks.

Having a GM such as Burke really puts a cap on the kinds of trades Toronto can make. Burke isn't liked around the league and its a shame that he is inhibiting a transaction, that can help his team immensely, from happening because of the stupid decisions hes made in the past.

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11-11-2012, 12:39 PM
  #928
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I seriously doubt a trade between Toronto and Vancouver is going to happen. Gillis isn't going to do Burke any favours and I see no reason for Gillis to give Burke a number 1 goalie after the shiet Burke has put Gillis through since Gillis became GM of the Canucks.

Having a GM such as Burke really puts a cap on the kinds of trades Toronto can make. Burke isn't liked around the league and its a shame that he is inhibiting a transaction, that can help his team immensely, from happening because of the stupid decisions hes made in the past.
Umm...Phaneuf for...trash. Gardiner and Lupul for...Beauch...Kessel for picks (not a clear win but at the time it was just picks), Franson/Lombo for Lebderp.JVR for Schenn..5 trades...5 different teams, yup, clearly Burke is being blackballed.

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11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
  #929
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Why are Leaf fans continuously in this thread if they don't want Luongo? serious question.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:10 PM. Reason: not needed
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11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
  #930
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Different situations entirely and it's so obvious that I shouldn't have to articulate as to why.

Most of those players will be productive late into their 30s. Meanwhile, Luongo just lost his starting position in the playoffs, has a terrible contract, and looks to be on the decline.

In two years, whatever team that acquires him will more than likely be in the same situation the Canucks are in right now.

That reality is going to be reflected in his value.
I shouldn't have to articulate as to why this post is wrong, but I will.

If one can player can play to his late thirties, and be productive, the others can. For every Teemu Selanne there is a Martin Brodeur. For every Roloson, who's play drops suddenly after playing reasonably well for years, there is a Rolston, or a Koivu, or a Clark, or even a Kovlev.

And which teams potentially acquiring him have an up and coming star anywhere close to what Schneider is and was expected to be? Not the Leafs. Infact, at the moment, Florida is the only one that comes to mind as a possible destination for Luongo. I mean Dubnyk isn't as good as he'll ever get, but outside of the Oilers posters on this board, there aren't many people using "Dubnyk" and "elite" in the same sentences.

Reality is he's a star play with a bad contract. Get over yourself. If you don't think your team wants him or needs him, don't make an offer, and write a letter to Burke, don't try to justify your bias as though it's a universal truth. If his contract wasn't as long as it is, he wouldn't be up for grabs. You're not getting a star, playing the best hockey of his career, for random mid-roster players and B, or less, prospects.

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Old
11-11-2012, 12:58 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Umm...Phaneuf for...trash. Gardiner and Lupul for...Beauch...Kessel for picks (not a clear win but at the time it was just picks), Franson/Lombo for Lebderp.JVR for Schenn..5 trades...5 different teams, yup, clearly Burke is being blackballed.
We've been over the Phaneuf trade...it's horrible in hindsight, but Hagman, Stajan and White were playing very good hockey the year before and year of the trade.

Lupul was nothing more then an overpaid second liner in Anaheim's eyes, and Beauchemin had been instrumental as one of the "big three" a few years ago with Niedermayer and Pronger, lofty names for anyone to be lumped in with. I don't think Gardiner would have been as hyped in Anaheim's system as he is in Toronto's either. I may be wrong on this point, but Fowler and at the time Schultz were also in the system.

Franson is very overrated, and Lombardi was a cap dump for Nashville. Ehrhoff/Lukowich from San Jose was a great move by Gillis too, and he gave up less then Lebda. If we're using cap dump trades as a basis for our respective GM's negotiating tactics, I think Gillis wins that one hands down.

JVR for Schenn was a good trade for both teams on paper, but we'd need to see how it plays out.

Kessel for picks, and I should mention the Kaberle trade there too, were almost no brainers for Boston. Picks for a guy they can't resign for what they think he's worth, and not to mention two of the picks ended up being top ten (again hindsight), is the best they could hope for. Kaberle for Colborne+1st wasn't all that bad either. Toronto has another good prospect they drafted with the pick, and a prospect that seems very likely to make the NHL, even as a more defensive oriented forward, for a guy Boston was expecting to make a huge splash. He didn't, but Boston's consolation was a cup.

I agree he's not being blackballed, but the "stubborn" attitude that a lot of Leafs fans admit he has creates friction with his peers. All the trades you've mentioned, and the one I did, were expected to be mutually beneficial, and I think he lost as many as he clearly won (Kessel vs. Phaneuf being the only clear loss/win scenarios, the other 4 had the teams achieve what they wanted as well).

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11-11-2012, 12:59 PM
  #932
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Why are Leaf fans continuously in this thread if they don't want Luongo? serious question.
Cause they really do want him but the majority can't admit that he is a good goalie because they are trying to wear down his value.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:10 PM. Reason: qep
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11-11-2012, 12:59 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Why are Leaf fans continuously in this thread if they don't want Luongo? serious question.
Some of us aren't concerned as we understand the term circumvented. Now if we could just work out a price that didn't include our first born son and a left nut.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:11 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
11-11-2012, 01:02 PM
  #934
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Some of us aren't concerned as we understand the term circumvented. Now if we could just work out a price that didn't include our first born son and a left nut.
It's sorta funny how Leafs fans think like that.

Literally every single deal proposed Luongo has been the best asset involved.

Maybe for the next 10+ threads it should be based around Luongo+ for Kessel, you know spice things up?

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11-11-2012, 01:07 PM
  #935
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Some of us aren't concerned as we understand the term circumvented. Now if we could just work out a price that didn't include our first born son and a left nut.
I can't believe how little you value your first born son and a left nut....

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11-11-2012, 01:10 PM
  #936
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Some of us aren't concerned as we understand the term circumvented. Now if we could just work out a price that didn't include our first born son and a left nut.
well, go make an offer for albatross Hossa or Kovalchuck, and see what it will cost. My guess is, it wont be spare parts and garbage.

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11-11-2012, 01:12 PM
  #937
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Cause they really do want him but the majority can't admit that he is a good goalie because they are trying to wear down his value.

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11-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #938
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well, go make an offer for albatross Hossa or Kovalchuck, and see what it will cost. My guess is, it wont be spare parts and gargabe.
Kovalchuk and Hossa haven't lost their job and role for their respective club so of coarse their value is higher.

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11-11-2012, 01:20 PM
  #939
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Kovalchuk and Hossa haven't lost their job and role for their respective club so of coarse their value is higher.
What makes you think Luongo won't steal back the job?

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11-11-2012, 01:24 PM
  #940
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Kovalchuk and Hossa haven't lost their job and role for their respective club so of coarse their value is higher.
So if there is a season & Luongo wins the starters job his value is back to full?

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11-11-2012, 01:28 PM
  #941
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So if there is a season & Luongo wins the starters job his value is back to full?
Of course not, because the Leafs fans here still want him, but don't want to pay.

Luongo+Malhotra+Raymond+Alberts for Kessel.

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11-11-2012, 01:29 PM
  #942
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What makes you think Luongo won't steal back the job?
The fact that Luongo lost his job at his age, with his contract, is enough cause for concern.

If you, or any Canucks fan, really believes they'll get great value with those kinds of variables attached to Luongo's name, I really don't know what to say.

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11-11-2012, 01:30 PM
  #943
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Kovalchuk and Hossa haven't lost their job and role for their respective club so of coarse their value is higher.
Being sat for 2-3 games is losing your job as a goalie? Hell, Schneider took the reigns back in November last year then in like a 6 game streak where he was on fire.

Guess who came back.

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Old
11-11-2012, 01:30 PM
  #944
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The fact that Luongo lost his job at his age, with his contract, is enough cause for concern.

If you, or any Canucks fan, really believes they'll get great value with those kinds of variables attached to Luongo's name, I really don't know what to say.
You do so, you just insulted the lot of us.

Again.

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11-11-2012, 01:32 PM
  #945
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You do so, you just insulted the lot of us.

Again.
I'm not insulting anyone. I'm simply stating my belief that Roberto will not return great value in a trade because of the numerous negative variables attached to him.

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11-11-2012, 01:34 PM
  #946
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The fact that Luongo lost his job at his age, with his contract, is enough cause for concern.

If you, or any Canucks fan, really believes they'll get great value with those kinds of variables attached to Luongo's name, I really don't know what to say.
Cory Schneider isn't Scott Clemmensen or Josh Harding here.

He's an elite talent who has been developed almost perfectly. He is at the forefront in the league for goalies.

If you think all teams have Cory Schneider's to steal jobs you're mistaken... It's why you guys are interested in Lu...guys like him and CS are extremely hard to acquire.

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11-11-2012, 01:41 PM
  #947
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So if there is a season & Luongo wins the starters job his value is back to full?
He'll always have his contract as an obstical in any trade. So his value will never go back to full. But yes, his value would probably go up significantly if completely won the job back from Schneider. But if that happens, why would Vancouver even trade him?

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11-11-2012, 01:47 PM
  #948
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I'm not insulting anyone. I'm simply stating my belief that Roberto will not return great value in a trade because of the numerous negative variables attached to him.
No, you've simply said you can't grasp how our opinions can be any different then yours, and telling us to meet your approval, we can't have a differing opinion. Perhaps it is entirely a poor choice of words, but you've said "I don't see any value in this player, and I am flabergasted that anyone could".


Last edited by DaveG: 11-11-2012 at 01:59 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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11-11-2012, 01:54 PM
  #949
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Would actually really like to see Lu in blue, would make them a real playoff threat and spice up a real rivalry instead of the lopsided shellackings we get now.

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11-11-2012, 01:59 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
The fact that Luongo lost his job at his age, with his contract, is enough cause for concern.

If you, or any Canucks fan, really believes they'll get great value with those kinds of variables attached to Luongo's name, I really don't know what to say.
What does his contract have to do with his ability to win back his starters spot?


Quote:
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I'm not insulting anyone. I'm simply stating my belief that Roberto will not return great value in a trade because of the numerous negative variables attached to him.


You weren't insulting anyone yet you have multiple posts that were edited by mods for trolling... Not insulting? Don't know if you can say that.


You know what? You have already stated that & have done so more then once. We've been told countless times over the Summer by other fan bases that "Oh Canucks fans are sure going to be disappointed...blah blah blah". How does that help? We and our GM have a high price in mind & aren't going to go off that price anytime soon. All you do by calling out our fan base is make having civil conversations even harder.

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