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Old
11-11-2012, 02:05 PM
  #951
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
What does his contract have to do with his ability to win back his starters spot?
If he can't hold down a starting position with a team, most likely as a result of declining ability, then his contract is absolutely a huge burden.

Who wants a $5.3m/year backup? Not the Leafs, and by the looks of it, neither do the Canucks.

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11-11-2012, 02:10 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
If he can't hold down a starting position with a team, most likely as a result of declining ability, then his contract is absolutely a huge burden.

Who wants a $5.3m/year backup? Not the Leafs, and by the looks of it, neither do the Canucks.
This has nothing to do with his ability to win the job back & more to do with his value.

You might consider him a back up because he didn't start the last couple games because thats the only move our Coach could do to wake up the team but he isn't & he wouldn't be considered a back up on Toronto THATS for sure.


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:13 PM. Reason: qdp
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11-11-2012, 02:10 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
Kovalchuk and Hossa haven't lost their job and role for their respective club so of coarse their value is higher.
Lets say there was a full season this year.

Luongo gets 42 starts, Schneider gets 40.

Is his value different from what it is now?

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11-11-2012, 02:11 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
If he can't hold down a starting position with a team, most likely as a result of declining ability, then his contract is absolutely a huge burden.

Who wants a $5.3m/year backup? Not the Leafs, and by the looks of it, neither do the Canucks.
Strange logic....

Even if Scheider has surpassed Luongo as the starter Luongo doesn't become a "backup" calibre goalie.

A team trading for Luongo is acquiring a starter, a very good one at that.

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11-11-2012, 02:12 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
The fact that Luongo lost his job at his age, with his contract, is enough cause for concern.

If you, or any Canucks fan, really believes they'll get great value with those kinds of variables attached to Luongo's name, I really don't know what to say.
Give me a list of goalies Schneider wouldnt have stolen the starting job from last year. Yeah, its a short list.

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11-11-2012, 02:15 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
This has nothing to do with his ability to win the job back & more to do with his value.
Indeed. His value is affected in a negative fashion because of his declining ability, whether he's unable to win back a starting position or hold down the fort in the playoffs, it will be reflected in whatever return the Canucks get for him.

Roberto Luongo was one of the main reasons for the Canucks being embarrassed last spring. Whoever acquires him will have to have that in mind when negotiating value. The fact that Roberto, a veteran of the NHL, was placed on the bench with the season on the line, in favour of a goalie who hasn't even played a whole lot in the league, says a lot.

The Canucks don't have a lot of confidence in him being able to carry their team.


Last edited by The Saurus: 11-11-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Old
11-11-2012, 02:19 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Indeed. His value is affected in a negative fashion because of his declining ability, whether he's unable to win back a starting position or hold down the fort in the playoffs, it will be reflected in whatever return the Canucks get for him.

Roberto Luongo was one of the main reasons for the Canucks being embarrassed last spring. Whoever acquires him will have to have that in mind when negotiating value.

The bold shows me that you have next to NO clue what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
The Canucks don't have a lot of confidence in him being able to carry their team.

Where do you get all this material?


Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:14 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
11-11-2012, 02:24 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post

Where do you get all this material?
Isn't it obvious?

It's in reference to a 2 game sample where Luongo posted:

.891 SV% + 3.59 GAA

I mean it's not like GMs would trade for him based on the 700+ games where he posted:

.919 SV%

And haven't you heard what Gillis said? He literally said this today:

"We're going to make sure we're in the best position to win the Stanley Cup and that may be with both goaltenders."
"I really like Roberto [Luongo]. I like him as a person. I like him as a goaltender. He's a phenomenal guy, a phenomenally hard-working player, zero maintenance. He is the kind of guy that any team would like to have."



Last edited by spiny norman: 11-11-2012 at 03:14 PM. Reason: qep
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11-11-2012, 03:02 PM
  #959
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Luongo seems like Vancouver's Hemsky. All he does is get **** on by everyone and canuck fans defend him till the death but it will never change anyones minds

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11-11-2012, 03:07 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Where do you get all this material?
I get my opinions from Roberto's poor performance and the decisions that the Canucks made as a result of that poor performance.

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11-11-2012, 03:11 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Isn't it obvious?

It's in reference to a 2 game sample where Luongo posted:

.891 SV% + 3.59 GAA

I mean it's not like GMs would trade for him based on the 700+ games where he posted:

.919 SV%

And haven't you heard what Gillis said? He literally said this today:

"We're going to make sure we're in the best position to win the Stanley Cup and that may be with both goaltenders."
"I really like Roberto [Luongo]. I like him as a person. I like him as a goaltender. He's a phenomenal guy, a phenomenally hard-working player, zero maintenance. He is the kind of guy that any team would like to have."

Oh woah, that's news alright. A general manager pumping the tires of a goaltender he's trying to move.

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11-11-2012, 03:12 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I get my opinions from Roberto's poor performance and the decisions that the Canucks made as a result of that poor performance.
So out of thin air, because last year was one of Luongo's best, and even his playoff performance wasn't the reason he got pulled. You might as well start a rumour he hunts people during the off season and has David Caruso hot on his case.

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Old
11-11-2012, 03:20 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Lets say there was a full season this year.

Luongo gets 42 starts, Schneider gets 40.

Is his value different from what it is now?
If Luongo were to appear in more games then Schneider this year, it would show he still has a lot of fight left in him given he's in his mid 30's so yes, I would say his value would go up.

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Old
11-11-2012, 03:23 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Oh woah, that's news alright. A general manager pumping the tires of a goaltender he's trying to move.
Please do explain why you think Luongo is declining.

I mean surely you're not basing it on 2 games.

Please please bring up the fact that Luongo's stats were worse this year than the previous one, I mean it's not like Rinne or Price also had declining stats.

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11-11-2012, 03:26 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
If Luongo were to appear in more games then Schneider this year, it would show he still has a lot of fight left in him given he's in his mid 30's so yes, I would say his value would go up.
I don't doubt he's capable of it. But it's like if we got Lundquist on this team...would having Lundquist somehow make Luongo a worse player? It's a huge exaggeration, but having one player who is arguably better (I can't say Schneider is better in terms of talent...yet) then another shouldn't diminish the value of the lesser player. Having Towes doesn't make Hossa less valuable, having Datsyuk doesn't make Zetterberg less valuable, having Kopitar doesn't make Carter or Richards less valuable.

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11-11-2012, 03:40 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Why are Leaf fans continuously in this thread if they don't want Luongo? serious question.
Well as a new poster on this board I can tell you this, I won't be upset at aquiring him at the right price for us. I say this as we are in no position to sell the farm for a goelie. That would force the team to be built through free agency, bad idea. next he is a good enough goalie to possibly take a bad team to the brink of or even the playoffs. This is counter productive in terms of drafting another blue chip prospect.

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11-11-2012, 03:47 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
If Luongo were to appear in more games then Schneider this year, it would show he still has a lot of fight left in him given he's in his mid 30's so yes, I would say his value would go up.
So luongos value hinges entirely on if he plays more than 41 games?

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11-11-2012, 03:48 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
It's sorta funny how Leafs fans think like that.

Literally every single deal proposed Luongo has been the best asset involved.

Maybe for the next 10+ threads it should be based around Luongo+ for Kessel, you know spice things up?
Fans of every team looking to aquire a player with a bad contract make lowball offers period, not just Leaf fans. it is just easy to pick on Leaf fans.

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11-11-2012, 03:54 PM
  #969
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Well as a new poster on this board I can tell you this, I won't be upset at aquiring him at the right price for us. I say this as we are in no position to sell the farm for a goelie. That would force the team to be built through free agency, bad idea. next he is a good enough goalie to possibly take a bad team to the brink of or even the playoffs. This is counter productive in terms of drafting another blue chip prospect.
So don't dress a goalie if the goal is to acquire blue chip prospects.

Hfboards is a fun place to waste time but the idea that acquiring blue chip prospects is better than winning has gotten tiresome.

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Old
11-11-2012, 04:03 PM
  #970
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I just want to throw it out there that I hope you guys don't let guys like The Saurus represent the views of all Leafs fans. I don't think Luongo has a ton of value just because he's tied up for a long time and the Canucks have a younger goalie who is ready for a starting job, but he's certainly no albatross. And he would easily be the best goalie to play for the Leafs since the (old ) lockout. I know a lot of Leafs fans would be thrilled to have him, even if it means a bad contract in 5 or so years I think it would be worth trading for him.

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11-11-2012, 04:03 PM
  #971
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So don't dress a goalie if the goal is to acquire blue chip prospects.

Hfboards is a fun place to waste time but the idea that acquiring blue chip prospects is better than winning has gotten tiresome.
The Leafs aren't anywhere near a complete team that just requires a goaltender to make a serious run at a Cup. There are deficiencies throughout the Leafs lineup that can only be repaired through a few years of solid draft positions and/or great UFA signings.

Roberto would be considered a band-aid solution to the problems in Toronto. He would push them to compete for the eighth spot in the conference and that's as far as it goes for Luongo. Toronto would be drafting in mediocre positions for the next couple of years and when Roberto declines even further, they will be stuck in the same position.

He wasn't able to get Vancouver or Florida into the playoffs all on his own and there's no reason to think he could do just that for the Leafs.

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11-11-2012, 04:05 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I just want to throw it out there that I hope you guys don't let guys like The Saurus represent the views of all Leafs fans. I don't think Luongo has a ton of value just because he's tied up for a long time and the Canucks have a younger goalie who is ready for a starting job, but he's certainly no albatross. And he would easily be the best goalie to play for the Leafs since the (old ) lockout. I know a lot of Leafs fans would be thrilled to have him, even if it means a bad contract in 5 or so years I think it would be worth trading for him.
Yeah, that's kind of why it's hard to discuss his value, as even among Leafs fans the opinions are all over the place. While that does exist to some extent with the Canucks fanbase, it's nowhere near as much as the Leafs.

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11-11-2012, 04:15 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
The Leafs aren't anywhere near a complete team that just requires a goaltender to make a serious run at a Cup. There are deficiencies throughout the Leafs lineup that can only be repaired through a few years of solid draft positions and/or great UFA signings.

Roberto would be considered a band-aid solution to the problems in Toronto. He would push them to compete for the eighth spot in the conference and that's as far as it goes for Luongo. Toronto would be drafting in mediocre positions for the next couple of years and when Roberto declines even further, they will be stuck in the same position.

He wasn't able to get Vancouver or Florida into the playoffs all on his own and there's no reason to think he could do just that for the Leafs.
Kessel could be considered a band-aid. What happens if he doesn't re-sign? At least you know Luongo is your property long-term. It isn't crazy to think that Luongo could be on top of his game until his 40's, and that is a far cry from a band-aid.

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Old
11-11-2012, 04:16 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Kessel could be considered a band-aid.
I suppose if Kessel was ten years older with noticeable signs of decline in his play, he'd be considered a band-aid as well.

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11-11-2012, 04:17 PM
  #975
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So don't dress a goalie if the goal is to acquire blue chip prospects.

Hfboards is a fun place to waste time but the idea that acquiring blue chip prospects is better than winning has gotten tiresome.
Thjat is not what I said at all, but it helps. If the Leafs aquire Lou they will become a middling team, period. But bluechip has helped, the Pens and Hawks win championships. Plus if they payed value for a player of his ability, it depletes them counter productive, no?

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