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THN: Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town

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Old
11-11-2012, 03:15 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Of course it is. Toronto is the most hated city in North America right behind Detroit.
Great, we can't even be #1 in that regard.

Outside of a few hardcore NBA cities, I don't think any town would support a team like the Raptors. The Raptors have had an abysmal existence ever since Carter left. Yet it still manages to consistently be well above the median in NBA attendance (although I think it may have dipped recently). The fact that there is still buzz about the Raptors is insane. Lots of people were awaiting Valanciunus' arrival; it was the craze on Toronto social media.

No other NHL market could ever sustain a team like the Leafs. None. Not Montreal, not NYC, and certainly not Vancouver. Not only are they hanging on, they're the highest revenue generator and they remain the most valued team in the NHL. Think of how crazy that is for a moment. Second place in valuation is the NYR, in a market of 21 million people. Yes, it's divided by 3 since there's the Devils and Isles, but you're drunk if you think there's some equal apportionment in fans among those three teams -- NYR is clearly miles ahead in fanfare and corporate support. And the NYR went to the ECF. Yet... they still cannot top the Leafs.

And yeah, you can say OHL and AHL support within the GTA is weak. Sure. But don't forget that the GTHL is the best development league in the world, producing the greatest amount of professional hockey players in the world. The craze about the GTHL is ridiculous. So if you want to be accurate, it's not that everything hockey-related below the NHL is crap in the GTA. It's that everything in between the NHL and the GTHL is crap in the GTA.

But really, what do you expect? In a massive city with so many entertainment offerings... OHL and AHL teams thrive in the smaller towns, and that's where they do best. That's also why the CFL struggles in Toronto; we have an appetite for professional sports. (Yes, CFL is professional, but barely).

Even with the MLB, what other team has the misfortune of playing in the same division as the Jays? Hell, the reason they expanded the wild card was basically for our division. Rogers had mismanaged the Jays for a really long time. Now with Bautista playing, there's definitely buzz about the Jays in the city. Toronto is probably a mediocre baseball town, in that fanfare seems more dependent on performance. If they do good, they set world records in fanfare. Although, even when they do poorly, they're never as bad as the Pirates or how the Nationals were.

I agree with Melrose that Toronto isn't a great sports city. But it's far from being garbage. I think at the very least, it's an above-average sports city that is capable of supporting teams from the Big 4 leagues. When it comes to hockey, it's the mecca. Yeah, the stuff in between the GTHL, where our kids play, and the NHL, where our pros play, may get lost in the shuffle. But the extreme success of both the GTHL and the NHL (not just success; they're the best in the world in terms of participation and fanfare) is indicative of Toronto's stature in the hockey world. The HHoF, the innumerable adult leagues, etc. only add to it.

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11-11-2012, 03:21 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by WhatThePuck View Post
haha....Are you serious,most people in the US don't even know where Toronto is or could give 2 ***** about the city.

In Canada I agree.
We're talking about Toronto, not Vancouver.

Although I do agree that Toronto is not hated outside of Canada. Maybe by some U.S. hockey fans but not as much as in Canada.

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11-11-2012, 03:22 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by WhatThePuck View Post
haha....Are you serious,most people in the US don't even know where Toronto is or could give 2 ***** about the city.

In Canada I agree.
I'm living in the US right now and when people ask me where I'm from, I say Toronto. Not one person has not known where Toronto is. At the very least, people know the Raptors, Jays and Leafs. A lot of them know the CN Tower and Niagara Falls as well. And it's not like I'm living in Buffalo, I'm living in St. Louis.

The perception that Americans are really ignorant of their neighbors and the rest of the world isn't all that accurate.

But yeah, Toronto isn't "hated" by any means here, although our sports teams are relentlessly mocked. Everyone knows the Raptors are a joke, the Leafs are a joke, and they just feel sorry for the Jays for being in a tough spot.

Still, the passionate hatred in Canada toward Toronto more than makes up for it. Of course, NHL-aware Americans usually love hating on Toronto, as well.

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11-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Great, we can't even be #1 in that regard.

Outside of a few hardcore NBA cities, I don't think any town would support a team like the Raptors. The Raptors have had an abysmal existence ever since Carter left. Yet it still manages to consistently be well above the median in NBA attendance (although I think it may have dipped recently). The fact that there is still buzz about the Raptors is insane. Lots of people were awaiting Valanciunus' arrival; it was the craze on Toronto social media.

No other NHL market could ever sustain a team like the Leafs. None. Not Montreal, not NYC, and certainly not Vancouver. Not only are they hanging on, they're the highest revenue generator and they remain the most valued team in the NHL. Think of how crazy that is for a moment. Second place in valuation is the NYR, in a market of 21 million people. Yes, it's divided by 3 since there's the Devils and Isles, but you're drunk if you think there's some equal apportionment in fans among those three teams -- NYR is clearly miles ahead in fanfare and corporate support. And the NYR went to the ECF. Yet... they still cannot top the Leafs.

And yeah, you can say OHL and AHL support within the GTA is weak. Sure. But don't forget that the GTHL is the best development league in the world, producing the greatest amount of professional hockey players in the world. The craze about the GTHL is ridiculous. So if you want to be accurate, it's not that everything hockey-related below the NHL is crap in the GTA. It's that everything in between the NHL and the GTHL is crap in the GTA.

But really, what do you expect? In a massive city with so many entertainment offerings... OHL and AHL teams thrive in the smaller towns, and that's where they do best. That's also why the CFL struggles in Toronto; we have an appetite for professional sports. (Yes, CFL is professional, but barely).

Even with the MLB, what other team has the misfortune of playing in the same division as the Jays? Hell, the reason they expanded the wild card was basically for our division. Rogers had mismanaged the Jays for a really long time. Now with Bautista playing, there's definitely buzz about the Jays in the city. Toronto is probably a mediocre baseball town, in that fanfare seems more dependent on performance. If they do good, they set world records in fanfare. Although, even when they do poorly, they're never as bad as the Pirates or how the Nationals were.

I agree with Melrose that Toronto isn't a great sports city. But it's far from being garbage. I think at the very least, it's an above-average sports city that is capable of supporting teams from the Big 4 leagues. When it comes to hockey, it's the mecca. Yeah, the stuff in between the GTHL, where our kids play, and the NHL, where our pros play, may get lost in the shuffle. But the extreme success of both the GTHL and the NHL (not just success; they're the best in the world in terms of participation and fanfare) is indicative of Toronto's stature in the hockey world. The HHoF, the innumerable adult leagues, etc. only add to it.
I agree 100% with you. As always. I would say Toronto is average.

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11-11-2012, 03:53 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by dubey View Post
We're talking about Toronto, not Vancouver.

Although I do agree that Toronto is not hated outside of Canada. Maybe by some U.S. hockey fans but not as much as in Canada.
Yeah look at all the people that take shots at Toronto for whatever reason at anytime. I have never see Vancouver get close to that much hate dubey. And Vancouver has a lot of problems. Montreal gets a lot of love even though its a shell of what it once was, and to tie in to the thread, has worse support for minor hockey. Montreal isn't even a top tier sports market for its size.

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Old
11-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #281
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It's IN to knock Toronto, but it's a great city. Most underrated in the country.

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11-11-2012, 07:07 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post

If Morgan Rielly played for the Brampton Battalions, you sure as heck could bet that it will sell out every night.

And what about the Leafs' 1st round draft pick playing Oshawa this year?

How about the Leafs 1st round draft pick playing in Mississauga?

Or their high 2nd round pick that plays in Guelph along with a goaltender this is also a Leaf draftee?

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11-11-2012, 07:53 PM
  #283
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Over 18,000 in attendance today to see an exhibition game between two teams of retired players.



Clearly, Toronto is not a hockey town. Rather, it is the hockey mecca.

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11-11-2012, 08:04 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Over 18,000 in attendance today to see an exhibition game between two teams of retired players.



Clearly, Toronto is not a hockey town. Rather, it is the hockey mecca.
That's a great example to use and I couldn't have said it any better, so "Hockey Mecca" sounds right.

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11-11-2012, 08:17 PM
  #285
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Well over half of NHLers come out of the CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL). 5 of the last 6 1st overall NHL draft picks have come out of the OHL. There is a profound connection between the NHL and junior hockey and anyone who is a HOCKEY fan would appreciate and value this.


If you live in the GTA and are a fan of the game, you care that Steven Stamkos and the Sarnia Sting are playing in Brampton on the weekend. You care that John Tavares is playing for the Generals in Oshawa. When Taylor Hall and the Windsor Spitfires come to Mississauga for a game, you want to be there. You'd be figuring out how to get tickets to see Connor McDavid and the Erie Otters the next time he's playing close to you.


Sadly, this isn't the case in the GTA.

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11-11-2012, 08:34 PM
  #286
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The Toronto Maple Leafs have 8 draft picks playing in the OHL this year.

2 of their 1st rounders (Stuart Percy and Tyler Biggs) and a high 2nd rounder (Matt Finn) play close by (Mississauga, Oshawa & Guelph)

All 3 could be playing in the World Junior tournament this year



You would think that the great hockey fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs would care enough to take a little time to check up on some of the best prospects in the organization.


We all know that they don't (and won't) and its glaring evidence that THN article is essentially correct.

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11-11-2012, 08:37 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by OSA View Post
The Toronto Maple Leafs have 8 draft picks playing in the OHL this year.

2 of their 1st rounders (Stuart Percy and Tyler Biggs) and a high 2nd rounder (Matt Finn) play close by (Mississauga, Oshawa & Guelph)

All 3 could be playing in the World Junior tournament this year



You would think that the great hockey fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs would care enough to take a little time to check up on some of the best prospects in the organization.


We all know that they don't (and won't) and its glaring evidence that THN article is essentially correct.
Don't know if you read the Maple Leafs boards but on there is a sticky thread at how our prospects are doing. So we at least care how they are playing and just because not everyone will see their games in person doesn't make Toronto a bad Hockey city.

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11-11-2012, 09:24 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Don't know if you read the Maple Leafs boards but on there is a sticky thread at how our prospects are doing. So we at least care how they are playing and just because not everyone will see their games in person doesn't make Toronto a bad Hockey city.

A few of the most frequent posters on there are not from Toronto, they're from other cities which happen to have OHL teams. I'd be willing to bet that they've, on occasion, attended a Knights or Rangers game.

Also, its not really an acceptable defence to say that while you may not have bothered to drive the hour or less to watch 3 of your top prospects live, at least you watched a little youtube and poured over some stats.


Last edited by OSA: 11-11-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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11-11-2012, 09:30 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by OSA View Post
Well over half of NHLers come out of the CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL). 5 of the last 6 1st overall NHL draft picks have come out of the OHL. There is a profound connection between the NHL and junior hockey and anyone who is a HOCKEY fan would appreciate and value this.


If you live in the GTA and are a fan of the game, you care that Steven Stamkos and the Sarnia Sting are playing in Brampton on the weekend. You care that John Tavares is playing for the Generals in Oshawa. When Taylor Hall and the Windsor Spitfires come to Mississauga for a game, you want to be there. You'd be figuring out how to get tickets to see Connor McDavid and the Erie Otters the next time he's playing close to you.


Sadly, this isn't the case in the GTA.
Watching Tavares play for Oshawa was a thing of beauty. He was an absolute stud every game, i'm glad he broke the records.

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11-11-2012, 09:48 PM
  #290
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LOL so Brampton doesn't do well in selling out games for battalions and we torontonians get the blame and get accused of not being a hockey town:p??? Thats a joke.. Sorry that we'd rather save our money to go see a professional hockey team play rather than some teens.. Toronto is the mecca of hockey in the world! Cause of Toronto, there is 30 teams in the league. We pay the NHL to keep teams like jackets,phnx and more in the league, i think that says a lot!. GTHL is the biggest hockey organization in the dam world lol.... But whatever... Its pointless sitting here and arguing with people who just hate to admit the truth so they find some stupid reasons to try and prove us wrong...

Btw, most of my friends are habs,sens,nucks,Redwings fans! and they all live in Toronto, so saying Toronto is a Leaf town rather than NHL is just plain stupid.

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11-11-2012, 10:05 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Leafs03 View Post
LOL so Brampton doesn't do well in selling out games for battalions and we torontonians get the blame and get accused of not being a hockey town:p??? Thats a joke.. Sorry that we'd rather save our money to go see a professional hockey team play rather than some teens.. Toronto is the mecca of hockey in the world! Cause of Toronto, there is 30 teams in the league. We pay the NHL to keep teams like jackets,phnx and more in the league, i think that says a lot!. GTHL is the biggest hockey organization in the dam world lol.... But whatever... Its pointless sitting here and arguing with people who just hate to admit the truth so they find some stupid reasons to try and prove us wrong...

Btw, most of my friends are habs,sens,nucks,Redwings fans! and they all live in Toronto, so saying Toronto is a Leaf town rather than NHL is just plain stupid.

Lol you're GM blew two 1st round picks on "some teens" that are playing down the street from you. HOCKEY fans would probably care about that and want to go check it out. A fan of a team, not so much.

The Habs have 2 draft picks in the OHL. One just happens to be the 3rd overall pick from last year's draft AND, coincidentally, he played in Brampton 2 weekends ago. But hey, why bother with the inconvenience of taking a 45 min drive and dropping a whopping $15 to watch him play.


And what are you saving your money for these past few months exactly??

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11-11-2012, 10:08 PM
  #292
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Lol you're GM blew two 1st round picks on "some teens" that are playing down the street from you. HOCKEY fans would probably care about that and want to go check it out. A fan of a team, not so much.

The Habs have 2 draft picks in the OHL. One just happens to be the 3rd overall pick from last year's draft AND, coincidentally, he played in Brampton 2 weekends ago. But hey, why bother with the inconvenience of taking a 45 min drive and dropping a whopping $15 to watch him play.


And what are you saving your money for these past few months exactly??
Lol any chance to bring up the Kessel trade. Pathetic. And no, Seguin is not playing down the street.

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11-11-2012, 10:15 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Lol any chance to bring up the Kessel trade. Pathetic. And no, Seguin is not playing down the street.

*face palm*

I think you need to Google who was taken 3rd overall this past draft by the MONTREAL CANADIENS



Don't worry, when he's playing in Montreal next year and becoming a Superstar you can lie that you knew all about him for years, that he was easily the best pick in the draft and that the Sarnia Stingers really know to develop top drawer talent. Most Leaf fans in Toronto won't know the difference anyway.


Last edited by OSA: 11-11-2012 at 10:27 PM.
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11-11-2012, 11:16 PM
  #294
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I'll ignore this years attendance as it's probably a little inflated due to the NHL Lockout.

So last year they were 14th and you think that's good? The GTA probably has the biggest base of hockey fans in the world to draw from and the best they can do is 14th?





And from the article in the OP:
The reason this is flawed is that Missisuagas and Bramptons arena were within 10 minutes of each other. Take one out, combine demographics and suddenly you have a top 5 attendance. Look at Oshawa, another GTA team, expect similar attendance.

As for the thread, the distance between the Hershey center and powerade centre, the fact that Brampton is not even Toronto and is populated by mainly non-hockey cultures, and the fact that these junior teams have to battle 2 professional hockey teams, a professional soccer team, professional basketball team, a professional baseball team and a professional football team (also left out lacrosse but i cant imagine a lot of people attending it) in addition to multiple junior teams is just asking for trouble.


Last edited by The Podium: 11-11-2012 at 11:36 PM.
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11-11-2012, 11:18 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by OSA View Post
*face palm*

I think you need to Google who was taken 3rd overall this past draft by the MONTREAL CANADIENS



Don't worry, when he's playing in Montreal next year and becoming a Superstar you can lie that you knew all about him for years, that he was easily the best pick in the draft and that the Sarnia Stingers really know to develop top drawer talent. Most Leaf fans in Toronto won't know the difference anyway.
What an ignorant *******, spewing ******** about how much you love hockey yet you dont even know the name of your "God sent" top prospects team

BTW, before you start yelling at me, ive been to plenty Mississauga games and Battalion games. If im making the drive out i choose the Hershey center 8/10 times.

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11-11-2012, 11:19 PM
  #296
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What an ignorant *******, spewing ******** about how much you love hockey yet you dont even know the name of your "God sent" top prospects team
Chill man.

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11-11-2012, 11:25 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Great, we can't even be #1 in that regard.

Outside of a few hardcore NBA cities, I don't think any town would support a team like the Raptors. The Raptors have had an abysmal existence ever since Carter left. Yet it still manages to consistently be well above the median in NBA attendance (although I think it may have dipped recently). The fact that there is still buzz about the Raptors is insane. Lots of people were awaiting Valanciunus' arrival; it was the craze on Toronto social media.

No other NHL market could ever sustain a team like the Leafs. None. Not Montreal, not NYC, and certainly not Vancouver. Not only are they hanging on, they're the highest revenue generator and they remain the most valued team in the NHL. Think of how crazy that is for a moment. Second place in valuation is the NYR, in a market of 21 million people. Yes, it's divided by 3 since there's the Devils and Isles, but you're drunk if you think there's some equal apportionment in fans among those three teams -- NYR is clearly miles ahead in fanfare and corporate support. And the NYR went to the ECF. Yet... they still cannot top the Leafs.

And yeah, you can say OHL and AHL support within the GTA is weak. Sure. But don't forget that the GTHL is the best development league in the world, producing the greatest amount of professional hockey players in the world. The craze about the GTHL is ridiculous. So if you want to be accurate, it's not that everything hockey-related below the NHL is crap in the GTA. It's that everything in between the NHL and the GTHL is crap in the GTA.

But really, what do you expect? In a massive city with so many entertainment offerings... OHL and AHL teams thrive in the smaller towns, and that's where they do best. That's also why the CFL struggles in Toronto; we have an appetite for professional sports. (Yes, CFL is professional, but barely).

Even with the MLB, what other team has the misfortune of playing in the same division as the Jays? Hell, the reason they expanded the wild card was basically for our division. Rogers had mismanaged the Jays for a really long time. Now with Bautista playing, there's definitely buzz about the Jays in the city. Toronto is probably a mediocre baseball town, in that fanfare seems more dependent on performance. If they do good, they set world records in fanfare. Although, even when they do poorly, they're never as bad as the Pirates or how the Nationals were.

I agree with Melrose that Toronto isn't a great sports city. But it's far from being garbage. I think at the very least, it's an above-average sports city that is capable of supporting teams from the Big 4 leagues. When it comes to hockey, it's the mecca. Yeah, the stuff in between the GTHL, where our kids play, and the NHL, where our pros play, may get lost in the shuffle. But the extreme success of both the GTHL and the NHL (not just success; they're the best in the world in terms of participation and fanfare) is indicative of Toronto's stature in the hockey world. The HHoF, the innumerable adult leagues, etc. only add to it.
Greatest post ive ever read

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11-11-2012, 11:29 PM
  #298
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Chill man.
Disgusting when people attack us with no basis to back it up, insinuate were ignorant and inadequate fans yet he cant even spell the name of the team hes trying to praise A city with multiple professional teams that have been piss poor since the early 90s yet either leading the league in attendance and revenue (like the Leafs), or atleast average. Any other city would have their professional teams relocated or collapse if they endured anything like Toronto fans for the last 2 decades, yet we still get accused of being "bad fans" Ridiculous

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11-11-2012, 11:33 PM
  #299
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In the (actual) GTA, the Brampton Battalion had these teams to compete (some at a higher magnitude than others) against:

Toronto Maple Leafs (NHL)
Toronto Marlies (AHL)
Mississauga St Michaels Majors (OHL)
Oshawa Generals (OHL)
and then 14 Jr. A teams

I doubt there are any other cities that have this kind of hockey competition.

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11-11-2012, 11:46 PM
  #300
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Lol any chance to bring up the Kessel trade. Pathetic. And no, Seguin is not playing down the street.
At no point was the Kessel trade referenced

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