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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-11-2012, 01:15 PM
  #501
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The thing is if the revised lease resembles any of the previous leases the franchise will only be portable if the COG fails to make lease payments or goes bankrupt. Just because GJ and the JSG lose their shirt it will not make the franchise portable.
Right thats the scenario we were discussing. Glendale tries to cancel the lease in bankruptcy or otherwise requests it be canceled making the Coyotes a free agent franchise. I just think if thats the case the NHL won't be as hard on Jamison as they were on ASG. Thats all.

However, we can actually now say we have real deadlines. We can either call 12/11 (the last scheduled meeting) or 1/7 (the last day the current council is in office) as the real deadlines.

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11-11-2012, 02:20 PM
  #502
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... I just think if thats the case the NHL won't be as hard on Jamison as they were on ASG. Thats all.

However, we can actually now say we have real deadlines. We can either call 12/11 (the last scheduled meeting) or 1/7 (the last day the current council is in office) as the real deadlines.
... first part, I agree. Reports during the time of the sale & subsequently confirmed by Chipman indicated there were some serious enmities goin down, Bettman having nothing but disdain for Levenson, seriously wanting to "punish" ASG. TNSE as we know had budgeted $170M "all-in" for the Coyotes, the NHL holding them to that amount, claiming thats what Winnipeg was worth (and Im not about to get into an argument over whether it was/is/will be or not).

The reported figure of $60M in Relocation Fee's may actually not be correct, it might actually be a lot more, ASG receiving $80M according to some sources, everyone signed to non-disclosures, the "announced" sale price of $110M & $60M in Relo Fee's a complete fabrication. A conspiracy to artificially inflate average franchise values. There was no Relo Fee when Minnesota moved to Dallas, Quebec City to Colorado, the Jets01 to Phoenix, Hartford to Raleigh. The price of Phoenix is what it is because of what the league was forced to pay & continues to spend. Is a franchise in Seattle or Quebec "worth" $170-$200M? If someones willing to pay it, then yes, it would be. Does that mean its "reality, market-value"? Perhaps, though how does one then compare those prices to St.Louis, Dallas, Tampa & minority stakes in Raleigh, Minnesota etc? Its all over the map.

As for the second part, "Deadlines", forgetaboutit aqib. The incoming Mayor & Council will want some time to study the matter, possibly conduct a full audit, take apart the existing agreement provided of course the seated outgoing members dont try & force a vote on 11/27. Start from square one, who knows, but this is far from over by a longshot with those dates.

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11-11-2012, 02:28 PM
  #503
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Right thats the scenario we were discussing. Glendale tries to cancel the lease in bankruptcy or otherwise requests it be canceled making the Coyotes a free agent franchise. I just think if thats the case the NHL won't be as hard on Jamison as they were on ASG. Thats all.

However, we can actually now say we have real deadlines. We can either call 12/11 (the last scheduled meeting) or 1/7 (the last day the current council is in office) as the real deadlines.
I agree NHL won't be as hard on Jamison as they were on ASG. But...Trashers went for $170M (split between ASG 110 and NHL 60). Tho, if Jamison buys the team today for rumored price of $170M and in 5 years most the team needs to move from Glendale because whatever the reason...How certain are you Jamison will get anything more than $170M as offer from Peladeau/Hansen ?

That's why I am saying Jamison won't be able to cash in any profits.

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11-11-2012, 02:52 PM
  #504
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I agree NHL won't be as hard on Jamison as they were on ASG. But...Trashers went for $170M (split between ASG 110 and NHL 60). Tho, if Jamison buys the team today for rumored price of $170M and in 5 years most the team needs to move from Glendale because whatever the reason...How certain are you Jamison will get anything more than $170M as offer from Peladeau/Hansen ?

That's why I am saying Jamison won't be able to cash in any profits.
What the point of buying this mess if you can't flip it for a quick profit anyway? Off course he could be conning some rubes on behalf of the NHL. Buy the team with as little of his own money as possible by fooling some suckers to pick up the main tab and dissapear asap. If the Yotes are back in bankrupcy court in 2018 that won't be Gary Bettman or Greg Jamison problem.

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11-11-2012, 03:19 PM
  #505
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I agree NHL won't be as hard on Jamison as they were on ASG. But...Trashers went for $170M (split between ASG 110 and NHL 60). Tho, if Jamison buys the team today for rumored price of $170M and in 5 years most the team needs to move from Glendale because whatever the reason...How certain are you Jamison will get anything more than $170M as offer from Peladeau/Hansen ?

That's why I am saying Jamison won't be able to cash in any profits.
Lol! No if gramps Jamison consummates this deal there are no profits only losses.

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11-11-2012, 03:58 PM
  #506
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As for the second part, "Deadlines", forgetaboutit aqib. The incoming Mayor & Council will want some time to study the matter, possibly conduct a full audit, take apart the existing agreement provided of course the seated outgoing members dont try & force a vote on 11/27. Start from square one, who knows, but this is far from over by a longshot with those dates.
I don't think new council does a deal at all. I think the new mayor ran on an anti-subsidy platform as did the the guy who beat Clark. sure politicians backtrack all the time but you can't reverse yourself on a major campaign issue within the first few months in office. The council meeting on 11/27 will be really entertaining.

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11-11-2012, 04:06 PM
  #507
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I'm interested to see if any other accounts were Beasleyed (or would I drop the "y" on that? Beasleied?)
Personally... I like the look of "Beasleyfied". Just me perhaps.

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When this does end I'm going to have to find a new entertainment option for my time on the elliptical machine.
Pssssssst! There's a franchise located in SE Florida that may be some fun to watch in the next 9 months. Nowhere near as compelling in the long run as this was but, in the short term quite a hoot. Similar intangibles. A) Majority council that loves to shell game monies from the GF to the franchise B) Mayor that detests loaning them money C) Future existence also hinges on a Hail Mary (Casino) D) Council is not inept. In fact, quite skilled in the Jedi Arts E) Wonderful insight into the world of the Florida political machine

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His resignation might not have been entirely voluntary, given what we know now.
I'm going to go with the opposite and say he bailed while the "green light" was lit... right over the drop zone.

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11-11-2012, 04:16 PM
  #508
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I don't think new council does a deal at all. I think the new mayor ran on an anti-subsidy platform as did the the guy who beat Clark. sure politicians backtrack all the time but you can't reverse yourself on a major campaign issue within the first few months in office. The council meeting on 11/27 will be really entertaining.
... I think they'll "try" and do a deal aqib, though it certainly wont be one anywhere near whats been offered up by the outgoing & the completely gonzo'd Ed Beasley. Maybe offer Jamison $6M in AMF's with incentives and an out. Whatever. Something reasonable, that they can actually cover, fair market-value (though even $6M up-front is generous by a Country Mile but still...). But really, does it even matter? Greg Jamison has yet to prove he's for real. Why would you even enter into negotiations with him until he reveals who the money guys are? I sure wouldnt. Show me your bona-fides'.... and ya, the final Council Meetings promise much by way of pyrotechnics. 4th of July comes early to Glendale on November 27th.

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11-11-2012, 04:34 PM
  #509
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"Pssssssst! There's a franchise located in SE Florida that may be some fun to watch...I'm going to go with the opposite and say he bailed while the "green light" was lit... right over the drop zone.
oh Man.... and no, I dont wanna buy a watch. Just button up the trench coat already....

... "right over the drop zone" huh?. Just like DB Cooper. There wasnt any on-board "green light", plane hi-jacked.

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11-11-2012, 04:53 PM
  #510
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oh Man.... and no, I dont wanna buy a watch. Just button up the trench coat already....

... "right over the drop zone" huh?. Just like DB Cooper. There wasnt any on-board "green light", plane hi-jacked.
pppsssstttt....hey ..... can I interest you in ..........an 8?......ssssshhhhhh!!!!! keep it down.....


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11-11-2012, 05:00 PM
  #511
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... I think they'll "try" and do a deal aqib, though it certainly wont be one anywhere near whats been offered up by the outgoing & the completely gonzo'd Ed Beasley. Maybe offer Jamison $6M in AMF's with incentives and an out. Whatever. Something reasonable, that they can actually cover, fair market-value (though even $6M up-front is generous by a Country Mile but still...). But really, does it even matter? Greg Jamison has yet to prove he's for real. Why would you even enter into negotiations with him until he reveals who the money guys are? I sure wouldnt. Show me your bona-fides'.... and ya, the final Council Meetings promise much by way of pyrotechnics. 4th of July comes early to Glendale on November 27th.
I am sure they will try, and maybe Jamison will agree to a lower AMF if he gets an out-clause and an assurance from the league they won't stand in his way in 2015 should he decide off load the team to an out of town buyer.

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11-11-2012, 05:04 PM
  #512
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The latest revelations about how Beasley conducted business at city hall might help to understand why he decided to leave a high paying job in the public sector to pursue a "consulting" business. His nefarious actions relating to moving money around to ensure that the General Fund was "made whole" is not all that surprising in light of his history of playing fast and loose with facts, and keeping city council in the dark. Remember, this is the guy who deliberately kept city council in the dark on a reputable economic assessment of Jobing.com parking revenues, and instead replaced them with a cocked up version from his buddy TL Hocking. In effect, he was trying to dupe city council and the public into paying much more for parking rights than they were worth by misleading them about the financial benefits. It doesn't get much worse than that as a civil servant paid by the tax payers and hired by an elected council.

Is it any wonder that Scruggs turned on him? She probably figured out how rotten he was, and decided that his prognostications and schemes about the Coyotes were just a house of cards. His resignation might not have been entirely voluntary, given what we know now.
i think this was likely just a turn of phrase, but do you (or anyone) know what their relationship was/is? did they know each other prior to this? how? was it beasley who originally brought in hocking? if i had to pick two characters most responsible for all of this, it would be these two ... the guy pushing the agenda and the guy who cooked the books to back him up. councilors were just dupes.

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11-11-2012, 05:05 PM
  #513
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oh Man.... and no, I dont wanna buy a watch. Just button up the trench coat already....
Don't need a trenchcoat. What I'm selling is laid out on inverted trash cans and cardboard tables.

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... "right over the drop zone" huh?. Just like DB Cooper. There wasnt any on-board "green light", plane hi-jacked.
That was more a Veteran's Day thing, but the DB Cooper ref is way better

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11-11-2012, 05:26 PM
  #514
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Don't need a trenchcoat.
... actually, you do M4B. Apparently that, along with a suit, sporting a pair loafers was precisely what D.B. was last seen wearing before locking the flight crew in the cockpit, remotely adjusted the flaps to 15 degrees, lowered the aft staircase and stepped into eternity with two hundred grand shoved down his BDY's. Never mind that the 727 was travelling at over 600mph, triple the speed of a normal jump; never mind that he was doing it in pitch black night with a 200mph headwind and -70 temperatures. And of course, it was raining. Good trenchcoat and a pair of loafers? Good to go Buddy. Pretty sure Ed Beasleys' cut from the same canvas, or nylon, or whatever. Maybe Ed's into Hang Gliding? Free jumping? Sure is beginning to look a lot like it. Extreme sports enthusiasts n' all.

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11-11-2012, 05:53 PM
  #515
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... actually, you do M4B. Apparently that, along with a suit, sporting a pair loafers was precisely what D.B. was last seen wearing before locking the flight crew in the cockpit, remotely adjusted the flaps to 15 degrees, lowered the aft staircase and stepped into eternity with two hundred grand shoved down his BDY's. Never mind that the 727 was travelling at over 600mph, triple the speed of a normal jump; never mind that he was doing it in pitch black night with a 200mph headwind and -70 temperatures. And of course, it was raining. Good trenchcoat and a pair of loafers? Good to go Buddy. Pretty sure Ed Beasleys' cut from the same canvas, or nylon, or whatever. Maybe Ed's into Hang Gliding? Free jumping? Sure is beginning to look a lot like it. Extreme sports enthusiasts n' all.
I thought it was 2 chutes. One for him and one for the $$. Which somehow seems fitting here, because I think that the money is all going to end up somewhere where no one can get to it....

If CoG gives it to JIG, it still goes down the drain.....

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11-11-2012, 05:55 PM
  #516
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... who is JSG?

Jamsion Speculation Group, initially referred to as the Jamison Investment Group. This thing is more speculative in nature than any form of an actual investment. Hence the name change.

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11-11-2012, 05:59 PM
  #517
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The council meeting on 11/27 will be really entertaining.
I'll say. I thought I was through watching COG meetings.

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11-11-2012, 06:03 PM
  #518
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well yeah usually playoff teams don't need to market themselves. We'll see what COG does, this is an unprecedented situation as far as I know for a city to actively subsidize the operating budget of a major league sports team. I have seen incentives to lure a team, payments to cover moving expenses, the obviously building the venue, etc but never a 20 year commitment to cut a check every year.
See Predators, Nashville,

Consider Nashville something like Glendale Lite.

As discussed somewhere else before.

Quote:
And the city of Nashville has indicated it is willing to continue its public funding. Since 1997, Metro and the state have given the hockey team $107.8 million through a contract that has been renegotiated once with more generous incentives.

It is common for cities to provide financial assistance to sports teams with the idea that it will boost the local economy. Many cities, including Nashville, pay to build hockey arenas. But most limit their funding to paying debt on the buildings and capital improvements.

Nashville’s contract goes beyond that, paying the Predators to operate the arena, providing financial incentives to book non-hockey events and covering most of any losses associated with running the building. And the state kicks in some tax dollars, too.

The Predators received $11.62 million last year in state and city money.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...nclick_check=1

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When awarded a franchise, the city of Nashville paid 31.50% of the $80-million fee to join the league. The city has engaged an affiliate of the team to operate the arena and that agreement protects the city against annual arena operating losses over approximately $3.8 million.[13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_Predators

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11-11-2012, 06:26 PM
  #519
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I thought it was 2 chutes. One for him and one for the $$. Which somehow seems fitting here, because I think that the money is all going to end up somewhere where no one can get to it....
... well no, single chute. The smaller type used by the SAS, Navy Seals n' such. Special Forces. You wouldnt wanna eject a bag of cash attached to a free falling chute at that altitude in those conditions. Could be blown clear east to Idaho. No Sir, you'd have that secured around your waist in a money belt or fanny pack, tucked up safe & sound under your Burberry Trenchcoat.... not sure about the loafers though. Seems to me they'd be the first thing to go as your body & mind went into hypothermic shock.

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Jamsion Speculation Group....
... OK. New anagram. I approve.

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11-11-2012, 07:23 PM
  #520
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What the point of buying this mess if you can't flip it for a quick profit anyway? Off course he could be conning some rubes on behalf of the NHL. Buy the team with as little of his own money as possible by fooling some suckers to pick up the main tab and dissapear asap. If the Yotes are back in bankrupcy court in 2018 that won't be Gary Bettman or Greg Jamison problem.





I really Hope Bettman does not do this because if he does this will be the only thing he is rembered as.

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11-11-2012, 09:09 PM
  #521
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Items 14, 15, and 16 - 7PM MT this Tuesday

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...ndas/11312.pdf

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11-11-2012, 09:31 PM
  #522
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Items 14, 15, and 16 - 7PM MT this Tuesday

http://www.glendaleaz.com/clerk/agen...ndas/11312.pdf
It looks like the COG did move $20 million to the NHL. Seems like they are still $5million short if the true figure was $25 million.

Quote:
The FY 2012 $20M payment of the Arena Management Fee occurred via loans to the
General Fund from the water/sewer funds ($15M), vehicle replacement fund ($3M) and
technology replacement fund ($2M). A repayment schedule similar to the FY 2011 loan for
that FY’s payment to the NHL will be incorporated into the FY 2014 budget.
http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agen.../111312-14.pdf

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11-11-2012, 09:33 PM
  #523
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See Predators, Nashville,

Consider Nashville something like Glendale Lite.

As discussed somewhere else before.



http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...nclick_check=1


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_Predators

I knew Nashville was paying fees to the ownership to manage the arena but I didn't realize it was to that extent. I stand corrected. I also had no idea the city kicked in for the expansion fee. Wow.

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11-11-2012, 10:28 PM
  #524
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i think this was likely just a turn of phrase, but do you (or anyone) know what their relationship was/is? did they know each other prior to this? how? was it beasley who originally brought in hocking? if i had to pick two characters most responsible for all of this, it would be these two ... the guy pushing the agenda and the guy who cooked the books to back him up. councilors were just dupes.
I don't know how long an association they might have had, but Hocking was on a $7000 per month retainer with the COG, which must have been arranged by Beasley as City Manager. That seems like a rather cushy gig for someone like Hocking.

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I'll say. I thought I was through watching COG meetings.
I wouldn't bet the farm that the new lease even makes it to the council meeting at the end of November. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets derailed before then. If the Jamison lease does make it onto the agenda, it could be a very entertaining meeting. Imagine the scenario of an incoming mayor or council member getting up in open session and criticizing the acting City Manager and the deal he has cooked up. It could very well happen. I'd also love to see Jamison stonewall the citizens and city council about the identity of the prospective owners, as he did last time. It is absolutely hilarious that a city council might again sanction a $320 million subsidy deal to an unknown party of investors.

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11-11-2012, 10:47 PM
  #525
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It looks like the COG did move $20 million to the NHL. Seems like they are still $5million short if the true figure was $25 million.



http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agen.../111312-14.pdf
Lovely. The $20 million that was required for the NHL's subsidy in 2012 was taken out of other funds (mainly water / sewer) and needs to be paid back. They are proposing to defer that repayment out of the General Fund until 2014 (thank you for the parting gifts Beasley, Clark and Frate). So, the current operating budget deficit is onerous, even without including this past year's NHL subsidy. If the lame duck council passes a "midnight ordinance" for Jamison's lease, then in 2014 alone, the incoming mayor and council will be saddled with a $35 million bill for the Coyotes' subsidies (2014 AMF and the 2012 subsidy).

If they manage to pull this off, it will be a remarkable feat. I have serious doubts that this will be allowed to proceed. I think that the real question is who will put the kibosh on this, and how.

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