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Pavel Bure's Number To Be Retired (Post # 31)

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11-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #201
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
To each his own, indeed. Plenty of great players never win an SC. If you were to say "strong playoff performances" would be a requirement, I'd agree with you.
One of the best players of all-time - Marcel Dionne - didn't even get a sniff (Don't think any of his teams won more than one playoff round in any given year).

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11-11-2012, 06:54 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
The retiring of Smyl's number did nothing to cheapen the honour or lower the bar for potential future number retirees. Players like him don't come around that often. We'll be lucky if we see another like him. In my books, he's exactly the kind of guy who's number should be retired.
Ogie, you can beat people over the head with this logic but it won't help. Too many fans with either no knowledge or no memory of the Smyl years trying to re-engineer history by posting stats.

There wasn't a squirt of doubt when #12 was retired. But we will forever be saddled with the internet age and people who watch a highlight reel or compare some stats and theink they are now an expert on any and all subjects.

(disclaimer: as a kid who grew up at QPA watching the 70's Bruins play I may be a tad biased)

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11-11-2012, 07:12 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Ogie, you can beat people over the head with this logic but it won't help. Too many fans with either no knowledge or no memory of the Smyl years trying to re-engineer history by posting stats.

There wasn't a squirt of doubt when #12 was retired. But we will forever be saddled with the internet age and people who watch a highlight reel or compare some stats and theink they are now an expert on any and all subjects.

(disclaimer: as a kid who grew up at QPA watching the 70's Bruins play I may be a tad biased)
Thanks. I don't want to turn this into a Smyl thread when it's a Bure thread, but I hate seeing him bashed...


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11-11-2012, 07:21 PM
  #204
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It really speaks volumes about the mediocrity of this franchise for so many decades... I know very well what Smyl has done for this franchise, and IMO it's no where close of being worth a number retirement.

The retiring of numbers should be an extremely rare event, but it's been cheapened to an accolade for any decent player that's played more than 5 years for a team. At that rate, players in a couple of generations will not have any numbers to wear. Might as well break out the 3 digit numbers, fractionals, and mathematical constants.

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11-11-2012, 07:27 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
It really speaks volumes about the mediocrity of this franchise for so many decades... I know very well what Smyl has done for this franchise, and IMO it's no where close of being worth a number retirement.

The retiring of numbers should be an extremely rare event, but it's been cheapened to an accolade for any decent player that's played more than 5 years for a team. At that rate, players in a couple of generations will not have any numbers to wear. Might as well break out the 3 digit numbers, fractionals, and mathematical constants.
This is sports. They're not awarding medals of honor or Purple Hearts here

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11-11-2012, 09:26 PM
  #206
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11-11-2012, 09:41 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
It really speaks volumes about the mediocrity of this franchise for so many decades... I know very well what Smyl has done for this franchise, and IMO it's no where close of being worth a number retirement.

The retiring of numbers should be an extremely rare event, but it's been cheapened to an accolade for any decent player that's played more than 5 years for a team. At that rate, players in a couple of generations will not have any numbers to wear. Might as well break out the 3 digit numbers, fractionals, and mathematical constants.
3 numbers so far, 43 years. That's the same number of Cup appearances this mediocre franchise has had. Bure and a SCF this year and we are still on pace.

At this crazy rate, we'll have 8 retired by 2055. I can't say I am concerned, I'll either be dead or wearing diapers.

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11-11-2012, 11:19 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
3 numbers so far, 43 years. That's the same number of Cup appearances this mediocre franchise has had. Bure and a SCF this year and we are still on pace.

At this crazy rate, we'll have 8 retired by 2055. I can't say I am concerned, I'll either be dead or wearing diapers.
Actually, 2 in the past 4 years, and soon to be 3 in 5 years, if Bure's number is indeed being retired. And like it's been mentioned, if the likes of Naslund and Bure will have their jerseys retired, then it's a given that the Sedin twins will also have their numbers retired.

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11-11-2012, 11:42 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
Actually, 2 in the past 4 years, and soon to be 3 in 5 years, if Bure's number is indeed being retired. And like it's been mentioned, if the likes of Naslund and Bure will have their jerseys retired, then it's a given that the Sedin twins will also have their numbers retired.
Ahh, I get it. One minute you are discussing the franchise's history, the next you are cherry picking a small sample. Bure's jersey is going up a decade after his retirement. But I'll play along. Lets say Sedins go up in ~5 years. That's 6 in roughly 50 years. Big deal. And one of those numbers is 33, not all that common. While it's perfectly understandable that fans may disagree with some/all of the retirements, I can't imagine the loss of numbers really concerns anyone not afflicted with Asperger's or something similar. Some friendly advice, let it go. Now if you do have Asperger's, can you help me with some calculus homework?

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11-11-2012, 11:48 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
Actually, 2 in the past 4 years, and soon to be 3 in 5 years, if Bure's number is indeed being retired. And like it's been mentioned, if the likes of Naslund and Bure will have their jerseys retired, then it's a given that the Sedin twins will also have their numbers retired.
And Kesler in all likelihood.

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11-11-2012, 11:51 PM
  #211
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And Kesler in all likelihood.
I don't think so, unless the best is yet to come for 5 years.

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11-12-2012, 12:46 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Ahh, I get it. One minute you are discussing the franchise's history, the next you are cherry picking a small sample.
You missed my point. I was referring to the depreciating value that number retirements seems to be getting these days. The bar was already set low, IMO, with Smyl, and these past few years the recurrence of the honour, again IMO, cheapens it.

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11-12-2012, 01:07 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
If this is true, it will lift our curse and we'll win the Cup. You heard it here first.
Careful, if that happens we may start retiring numbers by the dozen.

About time indeed though. I was not a hockey fan when Bure donned the Nuck jersey but know enough about him to say this was long overdue.

Quote:
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And Kesler in all likelihood.
Much as I love Kesler. He would need another playoff beast mode performance and take the Conn Symthe while we hoist the cup for that to happen.

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11-12-2012, 02:31 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Thanks. I don't want to turn this into a Smyl thread when it's a Bure thread, but I hate seeing him bashed...
I agree Smyl was great but not amazing.

Retiring someone's number should be reserved for guys who were amazing. Also, on ice should come before anything else.

By letting in Smyl, Linden, and to a lesser extent Naslund, you open the door to the Sedins and Luongo who all have had more individual and team success than any of the aforementioned three players with retired jerseys.

Bure should be the low standard for a jersey retirement not the only one of four in the HHOF.

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11-12-2012, 10:50 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by *Injektilo View Post
You missed my point. I was referring to the depreciating value that number retirements seems to be getting these days. The bar was already set low, IMO, with Smyl, and these past few years the recurrence of the honour, again IMO, cheapens it.
Then you did an awful job of stating your point.

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11-12-2012, 12:27 PM
  #216
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To me, if the issue about retiring the number is this divisive - you don't retire the number.

I would think one of the considerations would be whether there is a mutial love and respect between the player and the fans. I don't think that's the case here.

He was our first superstar, our first individual award winner, the most exciting player in franchise history. He helped create "Canuck Nation" and helped drag the franchise from mediocrity to relevance. He had a Hall of Fame career, much of it in a Canuck sweater. Before the relationship soured, he was the most popular Canuck of all-time.

He also had one foot out the door from nearly the moment he arrived. He asked for a trade after his first season, asked for a trade for the next 5 years, and then finally refused to play for the team. He didn't want to be a Canuck. He refused the Ring of Honour. He deserted the team, and had no time for the city.

I know the Canucks aren't the most storied franchise around, but do we really have to send our owner to beg a player's permission to honour him? To grovel at the feet of a player who obviously has no love for the city or the team?

I understand the reasons for retiring the number. I do. He was my favourite player all those years ago. And in many ways, it would be pretty cool to see Pavel receive a standing ovation, to see Gino and Pat Quinn again. To forgive and forget, and to move on.

But something about it feels wrong.

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11-12-2012, 01:38 PM
  #217
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I'm with you Alan. However, if it does indeed go up I don't particularly care either way. Bure's situation is one that I can understand both sides of the story.

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11-12-2012, 07:48 PM
  #218
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11-12-2012, 08:31 PM
  #219
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i'm watching adam oates thank people and i'm getting a little teary and sentimental. and then pavel... thanks not one teammate specifically. and i can only laugh.

would have liked to hear him talk about the guys who really meant something to him. we know about larionov, geoff courtnall apparently, gino of course. but just like when he was here, even after his hall of fame speech we have no idea what, if anything, gus adams, linden, lumme, and the rest meant to him. was he happy he got to hang out with mogilny again, even though the on-ice product was a failure? i guess we'll never know.

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11-12-2012, 08:37 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i'm watching adam oates thank people and i'm getting a little teary and sentimental. and then pavel... thanks not one teammate specifically. and i can only laugh.

would have liked to hear him talk about the guys who really meant something to him. we know about larionov, geoff courtnall apparently, gino of course. but just like when he was here, even after his hall of fame speech we have no idea what, if anything, gus adams, linden, lumme, and the rest meant to him. was he happy he got to hang out with mogilny again, even though the on-ice product was a failure? i guess we'll never know.
Maybe he's saving it for the Jersey Retirement?

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11-12-2012, 10:05 PM
  #221
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::cough::Start selling the Black Skate sweaters in the team store before Bure's retirement ceremony ::cough::

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11-12-2012, 10:12 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Maybe he's saving it for the Jersey Retirement?
naw, that's when he's going to finally show us a picture of what jeff brown's face looked like after gino was done with him.

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11-12-2012, 10:22 PM
  #223
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DJ Tanner sitting beside Bettman. That's awesome.

Nice devil horns btw. Well done Makaveli.

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11-12-2012, 11:11 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
was he happy he got to hang out with mogilny again, even though the on-ice product was a failure? i guess we'll never know.
I always thought they never really got along - either before or after; though I wouldn't call the on-ice product a failure - just bad luck (seemed like when one was healthy - the other was injured). Or rather typical "Canuck Luck" with respect to injuries.

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11-12-2012, 11:12 PM
  #225
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DJ Tanner sitting beside Bettman. That's awesome.

Nice devil horns btw. Well done Makaveli.
She still has it.

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