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2012 Draft - 2nd Pick: Mitch Moroz

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Old
10-23-2012, 04:40 PM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
So you say, it is bigger ice which lends credence for the lack of offence. I don't think the players are better or that the overall game is higher quality. It does help younger players to play against men but often players from SEL have to adjust their game when they come here, a more physical brand of hockey played in closer quarters.
Watching a bit of Nail's 2nd to last game, the ice if ****ing huge. I could see where Paajarvi would've been used to using his speed to gain advantages with minimal contact. Shrink the rinks and all of a sudden you're getting hit on damn near every shift at least once, or at least getting roughed up a bit. Since the NHL is played on smaller rinks you have a lot more use for guys like Moroz and Ewanyk than you would in Sweden or the KHL IMO. Maybe it's not a coincidence that Finns are thought of as tougher players since their ice is smaller than the Russian and Swedish ice surfaces. They likely deal with more in close battles and therefore are battle hardened already.

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10-23-2012, 04:51 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I think the key is to stop thinking we need a top end power forward to win. Who was Chicago's big power forward? LA didn't exactly have one either.

You have to hope that once the boys on this team develop into men that the whole being push overs doesn't become such a big issue. Taylor Hall and Prv fill out and things look that much better.
Byfuglien, Ladd, Brown, Penner (somewhat), King. The Blackhawks and Kings had plenty of crash and bang players to balance out the skill. Look at the Bruins the year before as well.
The fact of the matter is that having big, strong players who can create havoc around the net is becoming more and more of a necessity in this league. It's a need that the Oilers need to address and this draft post-1st round focused on that plus they got their boom bust guy in Zharkov as well.

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10-23-2012, 04:58 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Byfuglien, Ladd, Brown, Penner (somewhat), King. The Blackhawks and Kings had plenty of crash and bang players to balance out the skill. Look at the Bruins the year before as well.
The fact of the matter is that having big, strong players who can create havoc around the net is becoming more and more of a necessity in this league. It's a need that the Oilers need to address and this draft post-1st round focused on that plus they got their boom bust guy in Zharkov as well.
Won't deny that we can use it, but forcing it isn't the answer. Need to be smart with the picks.

Go look at what those guys did in Junior, they had the offense in their tool box. We are just hoping that the guys we drafted have it. There's a difference between showing glimpses of offense and having it the whole time while playing a power forward role.

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10-23-2012, 05:06 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Won't deny that we can use it, but forcing it isn't the answer. Need to be smart with the picks.

Go look at what those guys did in Junior, they had the offense in their tool box. We are just hoping that the guys we drafted have it. There's a difference between showing glimpses of offense and having it the whole time while playing a power forward role.
Moroz was a bit of a reach but this draft in particular was a total crapshoot after the top 20 or so. There weren't any real fallers with top 15 talent at that spot. Maybe Collberg but he's just another skilled guy, would have been a waste IMO.

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10-23-2012, 05:45 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I think the key is to stop thinking we need a top end power forward to win. Who was Chicago's big power forward? LA didn't exactly have one either.

You have to hope that once the boys on this team develop into men that the whole being push overs doesn't become such a big issue. Taylor Hall and Prv fill out and things look that much better.
Dustin Byfuglien and Allan Ladd.

They were ok.

Coincidentally they have been a shell of the team that won the cup ever since they lost both of them.

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10-23-2012, 05:50 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Won't deny that we can use it, but forcing it isn't the answer. Need to be smart with the picks.

Go look at what those guys did in Junior, they had the offense in their tool box. We are just hoping that the guys we drafted have it. There's a difference between showing glimpses of offense and having it the whole time while playing a power forward role.
Dustin Byfuglien got 16 goals/45 points in his draft year, sound familiar. The stat that stands out is he had 137 PIM, much like Moroz and Ewanyk. Byfuglien plays D and RW but I'm sure you can agree he was very effective playing RW as a big power forward.


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10-23-2012, 07:21 PM
  #582
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Like some of you guys, I hated this pick at the time and still don't like it. At 32 overall you're almost picking in the first round.

BUT, I think looking back in a few years the 2012 second round is going to end up being pretty weak in hindsight. Good players will be few and far between, so it will be a moot point essentially. Just my opinion.

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10-23-2012, 07:51 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Dempsey View Post
Like some of you guys, I hated this pick at the time and still don't like it. At 32 overall you're almost picking in the first round.

BUT, I think looking back in a few years the 2012 second round is going to end up being pretty weak in hindsight. Good players will be few and far between, so it will be a moot point essentially. Just my opinion.
Same here. I feel like if there was ever a year to take some gambles, it'll be 2012

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10-23-2012, 09:45 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Dustin Byfuglien and Allan Ladd.

They were ok.

Coincidentally they have been a shell of the team that won the cup ever since they lost both of them.
Who's Allan Ladd?

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10-23-2012, 09:56 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Dustin Byfuglien and Allan Ladd.

They were ok.

Coincidentally they have been a shell of the team that won the cup ever since they lost both of them.
I don't know if it was a typo or not but the name Allan Ladd is hilarious for some reason and I wish there was a player in the NHL named that.

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10-23-2012, 11:26 PM
  #586
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Who's Allan Ladd?
He meant Andrew

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10-24-2012, 12:00 AM
  #587
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He meant Andrew
No he meant Allan

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10-24-2012, 12:15 AM
  #588
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He should change his name to Allan because nobody ****s with Shane!

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10-24-2012, 07:43 AM
  #589
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He should change his name to Allan because nobody ****s with Shane!
One of the greatest movies ever....

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11-11-2012, 02:43 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Nail and Nuge View Post
Bump...

Too early to call him a reach at 32?

Point total: 4 assists
Games Played: 9

Gross average of 36 points over the season.

Henrik Samuelsson (drafted 27)

Point total: 11 (5 goals, 6 assists)
Games Played: 9

Man I wish we had moved up. A true power forward, nasty, willing to take a suspension and puts up the points.
Since this bump:
Samuelsson 12 gp. 6-4-10 (0.833 pts/game)
Moroz 10gp. 4-3-7 (0.7 pts/game)

IMO it's pretty promising that he's close to the more highly touted Samuelsson in this stretch. How has he been playing in terms of physical play of late?

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11-11-2012, 03:08 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Since this bump:
Samuelsson 12 gp. 6-4-10 (0.833 pts/game)
Moroz 10gp. 4-3-7 (0.7 pts/game)

IMO it's pretty promising that he's close to the more highly touted Samuelsson in this stretch. How has he been playing in terms of physical play of late?
He has an upper body injury and hasnt played in the last two or three games.

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11-11-2012, 03:59 PM
  #592
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I actually hate the oilers reasoning more than the actual pick itself. I mean, even if it is a weak draft it doesn't mean you throw that pick away on what you think is a flyer. I think Moroz is a good player and could make the NHL one day but it doesn't justify picking I'm at 32.

In 2007 we traded up to get our "guy" and used the other pick on a guy that most scouts didn't have in the first round. Now, Riley Nash and Alex Plante are wasted picks but were thought to address organizational depth.

Just because someone else had him in the 2nd round and he wouldn't last to the 3rd round doesn't mean that we should take him. Honestly, if you fall in love with a kid the way they do, just to take them early, it usually turns out for the worst.

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11-11-2012, 04:12 PM
  #593
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The Oiler's strategy is that you don't have a chance in hell of getting good, hard-to-play-against players if you don't draft them. Teams don't give those players up easily.

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11-11-2012, 05:00 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I actually hate the oilers reasoning more than the actual pick itself. I mean, even if it is a weak draft it doesn't mean you throw that pick away on what you think is a flyer. I think Moroz is a good player and could make the NHL one day but it doesn't justify picking I'm at 32.

In 2007 we traded up to get our "guy" and used the other pick on a guy that most scouts didn't have in the first round. Now, Riley Nash and Alex Plante are wasted picks but were thought to address organizational depth.

Just because someone else had him in the 2nd round and he wouldn't last to the 3rd round doesn't mean that we should take him. Honestly, if you fall in love with a kid the way they do, just to take them early, it usually turns out for the worst.
Tell us who you wanted them to pick at the time and we will keep track on who was right and who was wrong.

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11-11-2012, 05:12 PM
  #595
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Tell us who you wanted them to pick at the time and we will keep track on who was right and who was wrong.
I was very much against the pick at the time. While I hope Moroz develops into a decent big guy for us, I really thought it was a reach at the time of the draft. I was hoping we'd select one of Di Giuseppe (who is having a so-so season with Michigan), Thrower (who is playing okay with Saskatoon), Finn (who is playing great with Guelph) or Collberg (who is struggling a bit in the SEL). If I had to pick one back on draft day, I probably would have sided with Finn who I think will develop into a solid 2nd pairing defenceman.

This one will be interesting to watch as while a number of the more highly projected picks aren't lighting it up this year, they still have huge potential.

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11-11-2012, 05:37 PM
  #596
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The Oiler's strategy is that you don't have a chance in hell of getting good, hard-to-play-against players if you don't draft them. Teams don't give those players up easily.
Exactly. I was wanting Thrower at the time, but if there was ever a time to take a gamble, it was this year. We have a lot of solid prospects, why not take some boom/bust ones like we did with Moroz and Zharkov?

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11-11-2012, 06:48 PM
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
I actually hate the oilers reasoning more than the actual pick itself. I mean, even if it is a weak draft it doesn't mean you throw that pick away on what you think is a flyer. I think Moroz is a good player and could make the NHL one day but it doesn't justify picking I'm at 32.

In 2007 we traded up to get our "guy" and used the other pick on a guy that most scouts didn't have in the first round. Now, Riley Nash and Alex Plante are wasted picks but were thought to address organizational depth.

Just because someone else had him in the 2nd round and he wouldn't last to the 3rd round doesn't mean that we should take him. Honestly, if you fall in love with a kid the way they do, just to take them early, it usually turns out for the worst.
2007 was a horribly weak draft and that was before Stu became top dog, so IMO it's unfair to pin that on him.

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The Oiler's strategy is that you don't have a chance in hell of getting good, hard-to-play-against players if you don't draft them. Teams don't give those players up easily.
Bingo, and we have enough young skill to last our top 6 for 10 years as long as guys don't start wanting out.

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I was very much against the pick at the time. While I hope Moroz develops into a decent big guy for us, I really thought it was a reach at the time of the draft. I was hoping we'd select one of Di Giuseppe (who is having a so-so season with Michigan), Thrower (who is playing okay with Saskatoon), Finn (who is playing great with Guelph) or Collberg (who is struggling a bit in the SEL). If I had to pick one back on draft day, I probably would have sided with Finn who I think will develop into a solid 2nd pairing defenceman.

This one will be interesting to watch as while a number of the more highly projected picks aren't lighting it up this year, they still have huge potential.
You mention Finn as having top 4 potential. We have: Smid, Petry, Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin all with that potential and maybe even guys like Gernat and Musil. Do we really have a need for a guy like that who is younger than all of those other players? We have a much more pressing need in terms of toughness that can play, not sure who else we have in our system that matches that with the possible exception of Ewanyk. .

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Exactly. I was wanting Thrower at the time, but if there was ever a time to take a gamble, it was this year. We have a lot of solid prospects, why not take some boom/bust ones like we did with Moroz and Zharkov?
Not to mention Laleggia, he is the definition of boom/bust. Zharkov and Rieder will be a couple of skilled guys that we will add to our farm system soon enough.

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11-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #598
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You mention Finn as having top 4 potential. We have: Smid, Petry, Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin all with that potential and maybe even guys like Gernat and Musil. Do we really have a need for a guy like that who is younger than all of those other players?
You can never have enough young defencemen with potential in your system.

Go back a few years and we had Lynch, Woywitka, and a plethora of other young guys in the system. Fast forward a few years and basically none of them developed into what we expected. Drafting based on the perceived depth of your prospect pool is incredibly risky given the high rate or prospects not developing.

I don't mind the addition of Moroz but I would have been a lot happier had we have selected him in the 3rd round. The odds of him falling that far weren't great on draft day and thus I would have been okay with the Oilers not selecting him.

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11-11-2012, 07:07 PM
  #599
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You can never have enough young defencemen with potential in your system.

Go back a few years and we had Lynch, Woywitka, and a plethora of other young guys in the system. Fast forward a few years and basically none of them developed into what we expected. Drafting based on the perceived depth of your prospect pool is incredibly risky given the high rate or prospects not developing.

I don't mind the addition of Moroz but I would have been a lot happier had we have selected him in the 3rd round. The odds of him falling that far weren't great on draft day and thus I would have been okay with the Oilers not selecting him.
We need forwards though. It's one thing if we have an even prospect pool, but that's not the case. We have a TON of defensemen with top 4 potential, and besides the big 4, our only forward prospects who, best case scenario, have top 6 upside are (IMO) Hartikainen, Rieder, Pitlick, and Zharkov.

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11-11-2012, 07:24 PM
  #600
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We need forwards though. It's one thing if we have an even prospect pool, but that's not the case. We have a TON of defensemen with top 4 potential, and besides the big 4, our only forward prospects who, best case scenario, have top 6 upside are (IMO) Hartikainen, Rieder, Pitlick, and Zharkov.
You can add in Paajarvi and Yakupov. Likewise, if we're even going to consider guys like Gernat, Marincin, and Musil, we need to look at guys like Hamilton and Lander as well.

The only area we're really "missing" in terms of prospects is elite, top-end forwards and that need is somewhat alleviated given that we have NHL-proven young players in Hall, Eberle, and RNH along with a guy like Yakupov who will almost certainly turn out.

We need to continue drafting the best player available. If it's a defenceman, great. If it's a big forward, great too.

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