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Old
11-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #26
DougGilmour93
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Done deal for me. It's fair value and addresses our needs.

It would also be a classic Burke to sell high on Lupul.
Wouldn't trade Lupul, he was pretty much our best player last year.

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11-11-2012, 08:41 PM
  #27
Vankiller Whale
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Wouldn't trade Lupul, he was pretty much our best player last year.
So it's just a coincidence that he had his career year while playing with the player I consider the Leafs best player? Realistically he'd be a 50-60 point scorer who's an upcoming UFA. And I highly doubt he'd re-sign with a team that has decided to go full out rebuild for another couple of years.

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11-11-2012, 08:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So it's just a coincidence that he had his career year while playing with the player I consider the Leafs best player? Realistically he'd be a 50-60 point scorer who's an upcoming UFA. And I highly doubt he'd re-sign with a team that has decided to go full out rebuild for another couple of years.
He's actually really enjoying his spotlight in TO. I doubt he wants out. If Burke doesn't acquire Luongo, he'll acquire another NHL starter and continue to help build this team out of the gutter.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:47 PM
  #29
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He's actually really enjoying his spotlight in TO. I doubt he wants out. If Burke doesn't acquire Luongo, he'll acquire another NHL starter and continue to help build this team out of the gutter.
Who? Howard's the only realistic option via free-agency, and if you manage to sign him, then we'll trade Luongo to Detroit, I guess. I highly doubt Howard doesn't re-sign with Detroit, and even if he does leave, San Jose or Chicago could likely be more appealing, as they are established contenders.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:54 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Who? Howard's the only realistic option via free-agency, and if you manage to sign him, then we'll trade Luongo to Detroit, I guess. I highly doubt Howard doesn't re-sign with Detroit, and even if he does leave, San Jose or Chicago could likely be more appealing, as they are established contenders.
In all honesty I see Chicago/San Jose good locations for Reimer.

Running a 1A/1B system. Niemi/Crawford are definitely low end starters.
Could give them a couple extra wins/keep their goalies fresher.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
option 1:
Lupal, Bozak, 1st for Luongo

option 2:
Gardiner + for Luongo

option 3:
Miss the playoffs again.
I'll take option three and have a great laugh when the return is leaked once the lockout is over.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:59 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
You may think I'd throwing out terrible proposals, but I'm not. You're acting/pretending that Luongo has incredible value, but he does not. His contract lowers his value. He may be an all star, but he hasn't played like one recently. Heck, he hasn't been able to nail down his own position on his own team. In case you forgot, another goalie has supplanted him in Vancouver. You must have forgotten that part.

So in summary...

YOU ARE ALL FORGETTING THREE INTEGRAL PARTS THAT LOWER HIS VALUE...


1) Lost his job to another goalie with his inconsistent play, especially when it counts (playoffs)
2) Contract still has 10 yrs left (until he's 43)
3) Has a NTC that limits where he can be dealt


Take a moment to let that set in. Once it does, than you'll realise that Gillis's hands are pretty much tied. He won't be able to dictate the quality of a return he could recieve. He'll be lucky if Burke offers him half of what I have been proposing.
When was the last time an all star goalie was supplanted by an almost rookie tender? Tim Thomas! What happened to him you ask? Oh nothing he just **** the bed next season and on-wards only winning back the starting position, the Vezina, and later on breaking a record and back-stopping his team to the Stanley Cup.... What a bum!

****** that Boston was stuck with him because of his high cap hit, being over 35 years old an having a NTC or NMC... imagine what they could have done with the likes of a Mike Komisarek instead!

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:00 PM
  #33
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Here's a deal I would do:

Roberto Luongo, Ryan Kesler, 2nd round pick for Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul, Joe Colborne.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:01 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Who? Howard's the only realistic option via free-agency, and if you manage to sign him, then we'll trade Luongo to Detroit, I guess. I highly doubt Howard doesn't re-sign with Detroit, and even if he does leave, San Jose or Chicago could likely be more appealing, as they are established contenders.
During the 2008 Draft I remember Detroit selected Thomas McCollum in the 1st round and he's a Goalie. I know they take a while to develop their prospects before they make the NHL, however won't they see him as their Goalie of the future and it could mean no more room for Jimmy Howard.

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11-11-2012, 09:02 PM
  #35
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I take option 1. However I would make it a conditional 1st round pick that Vancouver only gets if Toronto makes the Playoffs. If they end up missing then it turns into a 2nd round pick.
Now we're cooking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Bozak is the only attainable asset in those proposals in a deal for Luongo.
Gardiner I understand, but Lupul and a 1st?...well look at it this way, who would you choose on paper, with Luongo as the starter? the 2012-2013 Leafs or the 2006-2007 Canucks?

I think you might underestimate the effect Luongo would have on your roster. We should not have made the playoffs that year.

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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
If you'd rather take Colborne, by all means take him. I was switching Colborne to Kadri to sweeten the deal for Canucks fans.

Connolly is kinda weird... He can actually be a very solid player but he's just lazy. Playing with Higgins and Hansen I could see him looking alright, sometimes he'll impress you with his skill and he'll seem like a smart player and other times he'll frustrate you with his lazy play and poor decision making. I think that he could potentially help that already pretty good 3rd line for the Canucks score a little more though. If the experiment fails, he's off the books anyways.

I understand that the Halak situation wasn't exactly like it, but it's just the closest comparison I could think of. I figured Halak wasn't nearly as proven but he made up for it by being significantly younger. The biggest difference of course is that the Canucks have the ability to keep both goalies. I definitely wouldn't call Ian Schultz a solid prospect though, he's a 3rd round draft pick (rated 6.0D on hockey'sfuture... not the most reliable source but it gives a good general indication). The trade was essentially Halak for Lars Eller, a player who was not as good as Kadri in the AHL (and slightly better than Colborne).

So it's settled then? Luongo for Connolly, Kulemin, Colborne and a 2nd?

Thread over?
In all fairness, I don't speak for the nation. I prefer Colborne, and I would likely accept that trade.

As for Connolly, that's about my read on him from my limited exposure. Stable linemates at both ends to cover any blips might actually be of some use. Obviously Bozak would be a preference of mine as well, but if taking a cap dump back is needed...well I'm more impressed by Connolly then Komisarek or even Lombardi.

Halak's trade though, as you've acknowledged, has some very, very large differences. Schutlz I thought was reasonably highly regarded, at least by Blues fans. Either way, an unsigned, unproven goalie off a stellar playoff series with nothing else to back it up...other then goalies, and the seller having a plan B, I'm afraid I don't see it being comparable at all.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:03 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Here's a deal I would do:

Roberto Luongo, Ryan Kesler, 2nd round pick for Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul, Joe Colborne.
I bet you would. That's probably the cost for just Kesler.

Counter offer:
Luongo and Malhotra for Kessel and Phaneuf

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:03 PM
  #37
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Here's a deal I would do:

Roberto Luongo, Ryan Kesler, 2nd round pick for Jake Gardiner, Joffrey Lupul, Joe Colborne.
You could add Kessel and not get Kesler for that package.

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11-11-2012, 09:07 PM
  #38
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I'll take option three and have a great laugh when the return is leaked once the lockout is over.
cynical laugh after being soo emotionally distraught when Luongo returns closer to what most Nuck fans believe instead of yours? I'm going to need some popcorn for that

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:09 PM
  #39
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You could add Kessel and not get Kesler for that package.
no need to over exaggerate, while the original deal was not good it wasnt as bad as u make it out to be, and i'm a huge Kesler fan

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:09 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
During the 2008 Draft I remember Detroit selected Thomas McCollum in the 1st round and he's a Goalie. I know they take a while to develop their prospects before they make the NHL, however won't they see him as their Goalie of the future and it could mean no more room for Jimmy Howard.
Perhaps, but that still means they'd wait 2-3 years before letting Howard go. Would Lupul, Kessel, and Phaneuf also stick around wasting prime years they could be contending based on Burke saying that in 3 years there's a chance he can get a goaltender?

Now, I'm not asking for the moon. Lupul(upcoming UFA), Bozak(upcoming UFA), and a first guaranteed to be in the lower half of the order seems like fair value to me.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:11 PM
  #41
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I bet you would. That's probably the cost for just Kesler.
The negative value of Roberto Luongo would be offset by Ryan Kesler, allowing the Canucks get great value in return for both players.

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11-11-2012, 09:12 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
During the 2008 Draft I remember Detroit selected Thomas McCollum in the 1st round and he's a Goalie. I know they take a while to develop their prospects before they make the NHL, however won't they see him as their Goalie of the future and it could mean no more room for Jimmy Howard.
McCollum has been pretty terrible, if they let Howard go for him, they are going to be in deep trouble that even Lidstrom (if he un-retired) couldn't save them from... guy can't even hold a back up job in the AHL right now. He's never had a sv% above .900% and never had a GAA below 3.00 in the AHL. Hell in the ECHL only once has his GAA been below 2.75

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11-11-2012, 09:13 PM
  #43
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The negative value of Roberto Luongo would be offset by Ryan Kesler, allowing the Canucks get great value in return for both players.
Which leads me to ask this again, why do you want Luongo since he's such a terrible contract according to you?

If Luongo holds negative value, as you said, then why dont they just put him through waivers? That way they don't have to give up Kesler to get scraps.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Perhaps, but that still means they'd wait 2-3 years before letting Howard go. Would Lupul, Kessel, and Phaneuf also stick around wasting prime years they could be contending based on Burke saying that in 3 years there's a chance he can get a goaltender?

Now, I'm not asking for the moon. Lupul(upcoming UFA), Bozak(upcoming UFA), and a first guaranteed to be in the lower half of the order seems like fair value to me.
The thing is there is no guarantee of where the 1st round pick would end up. I admit today I was wrong about this but after Burke made the Kessel trade I didn't think Boston would have got the 2nd overall pick in 2010. So that's why I want a 1st round pick from Toronto to be conditional that they make the Playoffs. If Canucks fans think Luongo can get the Maple Leafs into the Playoffs then you should have no problem accepting that.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:18 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
The negative value of Roberto Luongo would be offset by Ryan Kesler, allowing the Canucks get great value in return for both players.
alright so Mike Komisarek and the Leafs 1st for Keith Ballard

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11-11-2012, 09:20 PM
  #46
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The thing is there is no guarantee of where the 1st round pick would end up. I admit today I was wrong about this but after Burke made the Kessel trade I didn't think Boston would have got the 2nd overall pick in 2010. So that's why I want a 1st round pick from Toronto to be conditional that they make the Playoffs. If Canucks fans think Luongo can get the Maple Leafs into the Playoffs then you should have no problem accepting that.
Any proposal I've ever made the 1st has been conditional on the Leafs making the playoffs if they don't then it becomes the next seasons 1st. Sometimes the 2nd year would have the same condition and it wouldn't be until 2015 that the Nucks get the 1st

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
The thing is there is no guarantee of where the 1st round pick would end up. I admit today I was wrong about this but after Burke made the Kessel trade I didn't think Boston would have got the 2nd overall pick in 2010. So that's why I want a 1st round pick from Toronto to be conditional that they make the Playoffs. If Canucks fans think Luongo can get the Maple Leafs into the Playoffs then you should have no problem accepting that.
Yeah, I agree, conditional on playoffs is fair. Imo the Leafs are easily a Playoffs team with Luongo.

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11-11-2012, 09:26 PM
  #48
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Yeah, I agree, conditional on playoffs is fair. Imo the Leafs are easily a Playoffs team with Luongo.
Indeed, just like Florida and Vancouver were when Roberto was their starter, eh?

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:30 PM
  #49
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Indeed, just like Florida and Vancouver were when Roberto was their starter, eh?
If you're so pessimistic about your team that you're comparing it to Florida back when Luongo was there, you may as well trade away all your roster players over 25 for futures.

And I said I'm fine with it being conditional. Believe it or not, there are Leafs fans that want Luongo, and would not begrudge giving to get.

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11-11-2012, 09:37 PM
  #50
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I read recently that when discussion was happening about Luongo, Bozak was a major piece the Canucks were interested in. For the most part the above offers are rediculous and would make the Leafs worse not better. Kuleman really cannot be spared and as pointed out previously the Canucks can only take so many roster players. So here is a compromise offer.

Luongo


for

Bozak
Kadri
Blacker
2nd

I really don't see the Canucks getting much more from us. Sorry but I don't see us trading our First. It looks like the only way we are getting our first line center is to draft him.

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