HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Edmonton + Philadelphia/Dallas

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-11-2012, 05:53 PM
  #26
NEWFowler
hi
 
NEWFowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,240
vCash: 50
Philly would do this deal, for sure.

NEWFowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 07:56 PM
  #27
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,280
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Then you'll gladly flip us Laughton for Horcoff eh? Give your head a shake
Your analogy would work if Couturier wasn't the venerable age of 19.

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 08:05 PM
  #28
5RingsAndABeer
John MacKinnon Fan
 
5RingsAndABeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 10,658
vCash: 1220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I'm sorry what? How in the world does Couturier have less value than a totally un-proven rookie.

One guy has stepped onto play-off ice, one has yet to step onto regular season ice. Not only that, one stepped on the ice stride for stride with the greatest player in the NHL. I seriously hate the draft position kind of mentality.
I see this terrible logic all too much on this site. Plenty of players who have never touched NHL ice have more value than established NHLers. I'd take Huberdeau, Baertschi, Strome, etc.. over the average 2nd line NHLer. I'd also take Ryan Murray, Rielly, etc.. over the average 3-4 dman.

And those aren't first overall picks like Yakupov. He easily has more value than Couturier, and it's not close.

5RingsAndABeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 08:07 PM
  #29
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Jamie Benn is possibly the most overrated player in hf history...

He's a 23 year old who just scored 60 points for the first time and people are saying there's no way he's traded for the #1 overall pick, the 19 year old scoring at over a point per game in the best active hockey league in the World. Yakupov has as many points as Ovechkin (the guy whose career low, 20 points lower than his next worse season, is still higher than Benn's career high) in one less game so far this KHL season. Now I'm not saying Yakupov = Ovechkin, I'm just putting things in perspective. Jamie Benn is scoring at roughly the same rate, only in the DEL in Germany, the 7th best league in Europe.

30/30 GMs would take Yakupov over Benn, guaranteed. Benn is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his value is not on the level of Nail Yakupov.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 08:19 PM
  #30
piqued
Global Moderator
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,565
vCash: 27750
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Jamie Benn is possibly the most overrated player in hf history...

He's a 23 year old who just scored 60 points for the first time and people are saying there's no way he's traded for the #1 overall pick, the 19 year old scoring at over a point per game in the best active hockey league in the World. Yakupov has as many points as Ovechkin (the guy whose career low, 20 points lower than his next worse season, is still higher than Benn's career high) in one less game so far this KHL season. Now I'm not saying Yakupov = Ovechkin, I'm just putting things in perspective. Jamie Benn is scoring at roughly the same rate, only in the DEL in Germany, the 7th best league in Europe.

30/30 GMs would take Yakupov over Benn, guaranteed. Benn is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his value is not on the level of Nail Yakupov.
Well I certainly wouldn't take Yakupov over Benn.

I can't believe you just used DEL scoring stats as any kind of argument.

piqued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 08:57 PM
  #31
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
a team stacked at center with a great 2 way center in the system in laughton doesnt move Couturier for a potential franchise winger? only a bad GM who is attached to his players doesnt make that move.
Sounds good.

Laughton for Yakupov.

Edmonton gets a great 2 way center they need for a redundant winger on a team full of smallish wingers.

Flyerfan52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 09:02 PM
  #32
LatvianTwist
Global Moderator
 
LatvianTwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Houston
Country: Tibet
Posts: 17,867
vCash: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Jamie Benn is possibly the most overrated player in hf history...

He's a 23 year old who just scored 60 points for the first time and people are saying there's no way he's traded for the #1 overall pick, the 19 year old scoring at over a point per game in the best active hockey league in the World. Yakupov has as many points as Ovechkin (the guy whose career low, 20 points lower than his next worse season, is still higher than Benn's career high) in one less game so far this KHL season. Now I'm not saying Yakupov = Ovechkin, I'm just putting things in perspective. Jamie Benn is scoring at roughly the same rate, only in the DEL in Germany, the 7th best league in Europe.

30/30 GMs would take Yakupov over Benn, guaranteed. Benn is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his value is not on the level of Nail Yakupov.


Try watching him for once. Then tell me you'd still say this.

LatvianTwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:18 PM
  #33
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post


Try watching him for once. Then tell me you'd still say this.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to watch all 1230 NHL games every year, but from what I have seen of Benn he isn't the god-like franchise player he is made out to be. He has beaten 60 points once in his career, in this career year he finished 26th in the league in points per game. Pretty good, but not as incredible as his hype would seem to suggest. And I always hear about how amazing he is defensively too but he didn't receive a single Selke vote, nor was he used in a shutdown role. I don't see it. Please, enlighten me, tell me what makes Benn such a dominant franchise player that I just have not had the privilege of seeing in my limited viewings of him.

I really hate the 'you just have to watch him' argument, because it can be used by virtually every fanbase and it just turns things into a pissing contest. No, stats do not tell the entire story, but as far as arguing with strangers online goes it's just about the closest we'll come to to evidence. A player can be better than stats might not indicate, but I don't see how a 63 point scorer can get so much hype without anything to back it up. That's just too big of a jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Well I certainly wouldn't take Yakupov over Benn.

I can't believe you just used DEL scoring stats as any kind of argument.
Well I was more acknowledging the fact that Benn has also played this year, which some people may not have known. Nonetheless it is a little surprising that a hockey God like Benn isn't doing better.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:23 PM
  #34
nzoilerfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 481
vCash: 500
Dallas won't give up Benn. I think the Yak for Couts deal would work though. PHI gets the better player in the deal over the long term (not right now) and EDM fills out their top sixes needs. Couts would be the perfect compliment to RNH down the middle. With Hartikainen tracking well to be able to add size to the top six as well.

nzoilerfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:38 PM
  #35
PALE PWNR
Registered User
 
PALE PWNR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 3,766
vCash: 1050
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
I see this terrible logic all too much on this site. Plenty of players who have never touched NHL ice have more value than established NHLers. I'd take Huberdeau, Baertschi, Strome, etc.. over the average 2nd line NHLer. I'd also take Ryan Murray, Rielly, etc.. over the average 3-4 dman.

And those aren't first overall picks like Yakupov. He easily has more value than Couturier, and it's not close.
Yes it is.

PALE PWNR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:40 PM
  #36
TrillMike
Registered User
 
TrillMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Unfortunately I don't have the time to watch all 1230 NHL games every year, but from what I have seen of Benn he isn't the god-like franchise player he is made out to be. He has beaten 60 points once in his career, in this career year he finished 26th in the league in points per game. Pretty good, but not as incredible as his hype would seem to suggest. And I always hear about how amazing he is defensively too but he didn't receive a single Selke vote, nor was he used in a shutdown role. I don't see it. Please, enlighten me, tell me what makes Benn such a dominant franchise player that I just have not had the privilege of seeing in my limited viewings of him.

I really hate the 'you just have to watch him' argument, because it can be used by virtually every fanbase and it just turns things into a pissing contest. No, stats do not tell the entire story, but as far as arguing with strangers online goes it's just about the closest we'll come to to evidence. A player can be better than stats might not indicate, but I don't see how a 63 point scorer can get so much hype without anything to back it up. That's just too big of a jump.


Well I was more acknowledging the fact that Benn has also played this year, which some people may not have known. Nonetheless it is a little surprising that a hockey God like Benn isn't doing better.
I really hate the "watch him" argument too. With that said, Benn is the best player on our team, we have started building around him. He will eventually be the captain of the team. He plays Stars hockey, hits, fights and scores.

Yakopov is an awesome player. You guys are lucky to have him and the other 3. However, Yakopov isn't the lone guy Edmonton is building around. That's why you could potentially afford to move him for other pieces.

For me, trading our best player (blah blah blah) for a up-and-coming star like Yakopov makes zero sense. It'd be like us blowing up all the progress we have made over the past 2-3 years (avoiding a full rebuild) and deciding to completely change the face of the franchise.

I'm not flaming you. It just doesn't make sense from a Stars' point of view.

TrillMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:47 PM
  #37
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,287
vCash: 500
For the record I'm not an Oilers fan. I do feel like Yakupov is tremendously undervalued on this board lately though. Maybe because it's the lockout and we haven't really seen the 1st overall pick play yet, because I can't remember a time when people treated players of this caliber as just another good prospect.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 11:17 PM
  #38
piqued
Global Moderator
 
piqued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas
Country: United States
Posts: 30,565
vCash: 27750
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
He has beaten 60 points once in his career, in this career year he finished 26th in the league in points per game. Pretty good, but not as incredible as his hype would seem to suggest.
I love how his point total is stated like that's the best he's going to do despite him only being the league for 3 years. "Career year"? You say something like that for a 30 year old, not a young player getting better every year (Who hasn't even gotten #1 center minutes or PP time yet). Yet of course Yakupov has limitless potential.

piqued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 11:19 PM
  #39
batmansuncle
Registered User
 
batmansuncle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Jamie Benn is possibly the most overrated player in hf history...

He's a 23 year old who just scored 60 points for the first time and people are saying there's no way he's traded for the #1 overall pick, the 19 year old scoring at over a point per game in the best active hockey league in the World. Yakupov has as many points as Ovechkin (the guy whose career low, 20 points lower than his next worse season, is still higher than Benn's career high) in one less game so far this KHL season. Now I'm not saying Yakupov = Ovechkin, I'm just putting things in perspective. Jamie Benn is scoring at roughly the same rate, only in the DEL in Germany, the 7th best league in Europe.

30/30 GMs would take Yakupov over Benn, guaranteed. Benn is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his value is not on the level of Nail Yakupov.
Im not going to argue which player is better, never really see the point when both play different styles, different line mates, different coaches... etc. Just wanted to point out that yeah his career high is 63 points in 71 games, but not sure if you have any idea who his line mates where for most of the season. He played alot with Ott and Burish/Wandell. He did play with Ryder and Eriksson too, but not enough lol. He was on the 2nd PP unit. I dont have the stat, but i think he was 3rd in points per ice time... something like that

Anyways im just saying dont judge him based on his points yet, and im also not saying he will lead the NHL in points either.

Look at his stats during Texas's playoff run in 09/10, he had 26 points in 24 games, and was a huge reason they went all the way to the finals. He was the leading scorer in the 08/09 Memorial Cup.

I think the part about 30 GM's taking Yak would probably be 15/15.... Yak will more then likely put up more points in the season, but Benn is big, hits and is the kind of player you want on your playoff team. I'd be happy with either though btw

batmansuncle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 12:28 AM
  #40
Chaos
3, 2, 1
 
Chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 7,760
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Chaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
He's a 23 year old who just scored 60 points for the first time
In 71 games. While playing decent chunks of the season with Steve Ott and Adam Burish. While not getting close to prime PP time. While more often than not starting his shifts in the defensive zone.

Quote:
and people are saying there's no way he's traded for the #1 overall pick, the 19 year old scoring at over a point per game in the best active hockey league in the World. Yakupov has as many points as Ovechkin (the guy whose career low, 20 points lower than his next worse season, is still higher than Benn's career high) in one less game so far this KHL season. Now I'm not saying Yakupov = Ovechkin, I'm just putting things in perspective. Jamie Benn is scoring at roughly the same rate, only in the DEL in Germany, the 7th best league in Europe.
Haha what a complete joke of an argument.


Quote:
30/30 GMs would take Yakupov over Benn, guaranteed
No, they wouldnt.

Quote:
Benn is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his value is not on the level of Nail Yakupov.
You are right. Benn's value is higher.

That doesnt even answer the following question of the value to each team. Lets say the lockout gets resolved and the NHL starts December 1st, and Benn is traded for Yakupov. Great, the Stars have their 1st line RW for the forseeable future. But who is the other top 6 center on the Stars besides Derek Roy?

__________________
Chaos is always right.

-Vagrant
Chaos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 12:32 AM
  #41
Gobo
What's Your Issue?
 
Gobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wild Rose Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,112
vCash: 500
Just so people have a rough estimate of what things would look like for lineups (Wings will be wrong, partners may be wrong, just doing a rough estimate from what I know . Also, going to assume if we were to get Benn, we'd add Gagner.)

Voracek/Yakupov - Giroux - Hartnell
Voracek/Yakupov - Briere - Simmonds
Schenn/Read - Schenn/Read - Talbot

Erikkson - Roy - Yakupov
Whitney - Gagner - Jagr
Morrow - Eakin - Ryder

Hartikainen - RNH - Eberle
Hall - Couturier/Benn - Hemsky
Smyth - Horcoff - Jones

Gobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 01:01 AM
  #42
WeridAl
YuckaFlux
 
WeridAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: 10ft of Snow
Posts: 1,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
Just so people have a rough estimate of what things would look like for lineups (Wings will be wrong, partners may be wrong, just doing a rough estimate from what I know . Also, going to assume if we were to get Benn, we'd add Gagner.)

Voracek/Yakupov - Giroux - Hartnell
Voracek/Yakupov - Briere - Simmonds
Schenn/Read - Schenn/Read - Talbot

Erikkson - Roy - Yakupov
Whitney - Gagner - Jagr
Morrow - Eakin - Ryder

Hartikainen - RNH - Eberle
Hall - Couturier/Benn - Hemsky
Smyth - Horcoff - Jones
Not bad, but I think Smyth and Horcoff will be playing the 4th line in the near future.

WeridAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 01:31 AM
  #43
Satan
why did she go
 
Satan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: exchange
Country: Germany
Posts: 36,225
vCash: 50
If you don't like the "watch him play" argument, then don't come into a thread saying that "Player A" is overrated like you're a resident expert or something even though you've never seen the guy play.

Dallas doesn't consider moving Benn although Yakupov would be great to have on the team.

__________________
all your friends are getting older
all your friends are moving on
forget everything you've ever said and stop pretending
i have every ounce of confidence
that you will fix all that you've wrecked
Satan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 01:50 AM
  #44
lakai17
Registered User
 
lakai17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,699
vCash: 50
Giroux-Yakupov duo would be filthy.

lakai17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 01:59 AM
  #45
Gritzky98
Lottery Dynasty
 
Gritzky98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,071
vCash: 500
Yakupov/Benn is a tossup.

Philly has to give up alot more than Couturier if they want Yakupov.

Gritzky98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 03:22 AM
  #46
Karitimes
JetsJetsJets
 
Karitimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,331
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Jamie Benn is possibly the most overrated player in hf history...

He's a 23 year old who just scored 60 points for the first time and people are saying there's no way he's traded for the #1 overall pick, the 19 year old scoring at over a point per game in the best active hockey league in the World. Yakupov has as many points as Ovechkin (the guy whose career low, 20 points lower than his next worse season, is still higher than Benn's career high) in one less game so far this KHL season. Now I'm not saying Yakupov = Ovechkin, I'm just putting things in perspective. Jamie Benn is scoring at roughly the same rate, only in the DEL in Germany, the 7th best league in Europe.

30/30 GMs would take Yakupov over Benn, guaranteed. Benn is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his value is not on the level of Nail Yakupov.
I'd be interested to see who's level you think Benn's value is on so Stars fans can shred it. I understand it's nice to work the numbers on the DEL and KHL and it does present an angle, but until Nail's in NA on an NA sheet of ice against NHLers, it's only hopeful speculation without translation.

Nail's been standout as expected, but not absolute dominant on the smaller ice against the top juniors in this year's Subway Series. A good number of people who are shooting down the Benn proposal in here are Oiler fans. When Benn really started projecting as a top line player, I think some of his coming out party games were against the Oilers in January of 2011. For me, that's when I noticed him really emerge.

Benn's function before fashion if you will. North south, 2 way, physical all-star first line center who can take care of himself if he has to. I can't think of many first line centers cut from the same mold in the current game.

Dallas has taken their time with him, and he's earned each successive role. And part of the this time has been spent moving him from the natural wing position, and converting him to center. But he's continued to improve and considering the year by year strides he's taken moving up the depth chart, he has left a lot of Stars fans wondering/excited/anticipating what his prime will look like with 2 true first line wingers, 1st line minutes and PP time?

Numbers are numbers tho, and it's certainly the easiest and most common measuring stick for first line centers. But if you ask a Stars fan which was more exciting or better bang for you buck to watch: Jamie Benn's 63 point, + 15 all-star season or Brad Richards 91 point, don't leave the ice, don't even look at the bench on a PP, - 12 all-star season from the year before... It's hands down Benn's season last year, and the team and his teammates around him achieved the same results as when Richards was top dog chizzeling secondary PP assists.

Karitimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 09:11 AM
  #47
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,203
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
I'd probably go for it.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 09:53 AM
  #48
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,300
vCash: 157
It doesn't matter what you say. Benn is not on the same level as Stamkos/Tavares/Hall/Nugent-Hopkins/Yakupov.


BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 11:43 AM
  #49
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 12,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
It doesn't matter what you say. Benn is not on the same level as Stamkos/Tavares/Hall/Nugent-Hopkins/Yakupov.

I don't see how that's a single tier / level.

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 11:56 AM
  #50
tempest2i
Myxomatosis
 
tempest2i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cowtown
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I'm sorry what? How in the world does Couturier have less value than a totally un-proven rookie.

One guy has stepped onto play-off ice, one has yet to step onto regular season ice. Not only that, one stepped on the ice stride for stride with the greatest player in the NHL. I seriously hate the draft position kind of mentality.
This may come as a shock to you, but forwards selected 1st overall in the NHL draft more often than not become perennial all-stars and elite talents within the league.

Yakupov hasn't proven anything in the NHL because he hasn't had a chance to prove anything in the NHL. In fact, he hasn't even had the opportunity to ply his trade in the AHL either. What more could Yakupov do to show that he was worthy of being selected 1st overall or even increase his value right now?

tempest2i is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.