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What moves gives Vancouver the best chance to win the cup???

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:35 PM
  #26
candyman82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
spoken like a true BJ fan...enjoy the endless rebuild!!! Last year CLB paid $3M from the cap and finished dead last...nash was traded for next to nothing and Mason was re-signed to a $3M contract after back to back 3GAA 90% seasons...the only thing the team has done right in the last 10 years is hire JD
And it has gotten us as many cups as the Canucks have in 40 years, what's your point? I would rather see this team rebuild properly and not try to cut corners like you suggest. While Luongo is undoubtedly better than Mason or Bobrovsky, he isn't good enough to propel this team into the Stanley Cup Finals. Taking on that contract also does not help matters. Try to pawn Lou off to Toronto or Florida, because Columbus doesn't seem too interested in him.

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:50 PM
  #27
echlfreak
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't think this will be a productive conversation.

Realistically if Luongo went to Columbus I'd ask for Brassard + LA 1st/Savard or something like that.


Gotta say that would be a fair deal likely...I would mind seeing Brassard and Booth play together as they both have great speed!

This is not a bashing CLB thread it is a Van trade thread with mild CLB disagreements intertwined! I respect the opinions of CLB fans just don't understand much of their basis of an argument seeing their existence wide struggles. CLB has one of the better buildings in the NHL, it is a great city and has great potential. It should never take a team this long to rebuild though...guess the same could be said for the leafs?

Drafting wise:

yd-player-overall

00-Klesa-4th
01-LeClaire-8th
02-Nash-1st
03-Zherdev-4th
04-Picard-8th
05-Brule-5th
06-Brassard-6th
07-Vorachek-7th
08-Filatov-8th
09-Moore-21st
10-Johansson-4th
11-Jenner-37th
12-Murray-2nd

compared to Nashville who has less budget and a better scouting staff and a better GM

00-Hartnell-6th
01-Hamhuis-12th
02-Upshall-6th
03-Suter-7th/Klein 37th/Weber 49th
04-Radulov-15th
05-Parent-18th
06-Geoffrion-56th
07-Blum-23rd
08-Wilson-7th
09-Ellis-11th
10-Watson-18th

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Old
11-10-2012, 04:57 PM
  #28
rumrokh
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Arnott on the third line will not give anybody a great chance to win the Cup. He produced well for his role, but he was really worn down last year despite being 10th among Blues forwards in icetime per game (11th for even-strength). He can't play the full ice surface because he doesn't have the speed or stamina, and he had packed it up mentally and emotionally towards the end of last season. You'll want to see him with more talented linemates, but, at best, he's a 4th liner who can play the powerplay.

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Old
11-10-2012, 05:14 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
1. Columbus doesn't need Luongo.
So you would take Mason/Bobrovsky over Luongo/Mase or Bob? Please explain your reasoning if true because I am a bit confused.

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Old
11-10-2012, 05:23 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
So you would take Mason/Bobrovsky over Luongo/Mase or Bob? Please explain your reasoning if true because I am a bit confused.
Luongo would not go there and he doesnt fit for them
Luongo fits a 5-year window, and realistically the BJs are farther away than that.
If i were them i would stick with BobMason over one+Luo-assets too
This thread doesnt help canuck rep around these boards

When i sawthis thread i thought it would be solliciting other fans' advice on a vartey of trades, which i thought would be interesting ....... What would get us closer, Luongo for:
A) Goc & Upshall
B) Connolly & Kulemin
C) Hemsky


Personally, im not crazy about any. These, but i thought they were closer to the avg proposal ....


edit ...kept it to roster players only


Last edited by NYVanfan: 11-10-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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Old
11-10-2012, 05:36 PM
  #31
echlfreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't think this will be a productive conversation.

Realistically if Luongo went to Columbus I'd ask for Brassard + LA 1st/Savard or something like that.


Gotta say that would be a fair deal likely...I would mind seeing Brassard and Booth play together as they both have great speed!

This is not a bashing CLB thread it is a Van trade thread with mild CLB disagreements intertwined! I respect the opinions of CLB fans just don't understand much of their basis of an argument seeing their existence wide struggles. CLB has one of the better buildings in the NHL, it is a great city and has great potential. It should never take a team this long to rebuild though...guess the same could be said for the leafs?

Drafting wise:

yd-player-overall

00-Klesa-4th
01-LeClaire-8th
02-Nash-1st
03-Zherdev-4th
04-Picard-8th
05-Brule-5th
06-Brassard-6th
07-Vorachek-7th
08-Filatov-8th
09-Moore-21st
10-Johansson-4th
11-Jenner-37th
12-Murray-2nd

compared to Nashville who has less budget and a better scouting staff and a better GM

00-Hartnell-6th
01-Hamhuis-12th
02-Upshall-6th
03-Suter-7th/Klein 37th/Weber 49th
04-Radulov-15th
05-Parent-18th
06-Geoffrion-56th
07-Blum-23rd
08-Wilson-7th
09-Ellis-11th
10-Watson-18th

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Old
11-10-2012, 05:42 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Luongo would not go there and he doesnt fit for them
Luongo fits a 5-year window, and realistically the BJs are farther away than that.
If i were them i would stick with BobMason over one+Luo-assets too
This thread doesnt help canuck rep around these boards

When i sawthis thread i thought it would be solliciting other fans' advice on a vartey of trades, which i thought would be interesting ....... What would get us closer, Luongo for:
A) Goc & Upshall
B) Connolly & Kulemin
C) Hemsky


Personally, im not crazy about any. These, but i thought they were closer to the avg proposal ....


edit ...kept it to roster players only


With TOR:

Bozak and Kulemin would be nice


Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m)
Zack Kassian ($0.870m)

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Old
11-10-2012, 06:14 PM
  #33
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Higgins is not a 4th liner

And the proposed trade is brutal. Literally zero chance Van does anything close to that.

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Old
11-10-2012, 06:21 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
Luongo would not go there and he doesnt fit for them
Luongo fits a 5-year window, and realistically the BJs are farther away than that.
If i were them i would stick with BobMason over one+Luo-assets too
This thread doesnt help canuck rep around these boards
Alright yeah that makes sense to me now. As for my expectations on this thread, I agree with you I thought this was going to be a little bit different.

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Old
11-11-2012, 03:59 AM
  #35
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In the past, I also suggested if Luongo refuses a trade to Columbus then put him on waivers because Columbus would have first pick. But a fellow Blue Jackets fan made a good point. If he doesn't want to come here and the Canucks screwed him by forcing him to come to Columbus via waivers, he would be pissed and it wouldn't be good for him to be around the team. It was only last season where Columbus acquired a player(Jeff Carter) who was unhappy with the trade. Don't think they will make the same mistake by acquiring a player who doesn't want to be in Columbus and hope that he'll change his mind.

Also, going with a Mason/Bobrovsky combo this year(hockey or no hockey) isn't to bad. Both are RFA after this season. They can figure out the goalie situation during the Summer.


Last edited by punk_o_holic: 11-11-2012 at 04:05 AM.
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Old
11-11-2012, 07:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Van gets:

Umberger
Nikitin

Clb gets:

Luongo
Alberts


Sign Arnott


FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / R.J. Umberger ($4.600m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Jason Arnott ($1.750m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Jason Garrison ($4.600m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Keith Ballard ($4.200m)
Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Nikita Nikitin ($2.150m)
Chris Tanev ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,645,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,555,000
The Canucks will be a much better team, much more likely to be a cup contender again if they Keep Luongo and Schneider as a goal tending duo. Though any team can improve, the Canucks as a team are pretty well set and also have enough prospects pushing to join the team that the team is well set if the team stands pat.

That said offering Umberger to the Canucks is an abolute non-starter. Not only do neither Kesler or Burrows like Umberger as a person, Umberger is overpriced and does not fill a hole on the Canucks, but the most important aspect is that when Umberger was traded by the Canucks he made rude degrading remarks about the Canucks as a team, it's management (then Burke), its fans and the city itself. Basically Umberger burned his bridges behind him and would not be welcome back.

The only Vancouver - Columbus trade I could see happen is:
To Columbus: Anton Rodin
To Vancouber: Cody Goloubev


Last edited by Hi-wayman: 11-11-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Old
11-11-2012, 09:34 PM
  #37
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^I would also do Schroeder for Savard.

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Old
11-11-2012, 10:51 PM
  #38
echlfreak
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Montreal gets:

Ballard

Vancouver gets:

Bourque



Toronto gets:

Luongo

Vancouver gets:

Bozak
Gunnarsson
Ashton


Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($2.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Mason Raymond ($2.275m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) / David Booth ($4.250m)
Chris Higgins ($1.900m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.500m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m)
Zack Kassian ($0.870m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($3.250m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($1.325m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Andrew Alberts ($1.225m)
Chris Tanev ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
Cory Schneider ($4.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,328,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $6,871,667



I think Bourque has the size, toughness and speed to play in Van???

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:23 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
ACTUALLY he does not have a choice. If Van were to work out a deal for "argument sake" that was:

Van trades Higgins

to

Clb for Brassard and Dubinsky

they could then place Luongo on waivers for Clb to pick up. Luongo has no choice as to whether Van places him on waivers or buys him out. His only leverage is if Van tries to TRADE him hence the NTC. Any player can be placed on waivers without any say!!!

Therefore when all is said and done the deal once the waiver claim goes through could be:

Van:Brassard/Dubinsky
Clb: Luongo/Higgins


Yet again before people go blasting the trade. Is is merely for argument sake not what I would propose. But it is a way that Vancouver could work around the Luongo NTC is pressure him into accepting a deal to another team. Nobody wants to go to Clb right now, but Vancouver holds all the cards if they want to leverage this option!!!
not true a player with a NMC cannot be waived or komi would have been waived. so the statment that any player can be waived is wrong

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:46 PM
  #40
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I think it would take more than Ballard to get Bourque, but he could still be a reasonable cheap option. He can be a very good player when he wants to be but all the games he doesn't show up and the lazy, stupid penalties will be very frustrating. He does add some much needed toughness to your top six and could be rejuvenated, getting out of Montreal.

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:48 PM
  #41
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Wow that defense is deep. Every single one of them is a top 4 defenseman, 4 are arguable top 2. Would be a fantastic move for the Canucks, good for Columbus too I think. Would likely be reluctant to give up Umberger though as he seems to be a good leader and player for them.

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Old
11-11-2012, 11:56 PM
  #42
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I can't speak for all my brethren, but I have zero interest in acquiring Tyler Bozak. Zero.

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:22 AM
  #43
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There are two reasons why Luongo to Columbus does not work.

1. Luongo wouldn't want to come here, you can't get around that fact by putting him on waivers. We don't want players who don't want to be here, that's the whole approach we're taking. In this sense, there is no trade to be had for Luongo.

2. In order to get Luongo we would obviously need to give pieces that have a sufficient amount of value. So that leaves us with varying options – subtracting a forward or two from an already depleted cast (which would likely be among our "better" forwards under the circumstances, so that's a no-go) and/or sending defensemen/prospects/picks, in which category we have JUST NOW started to develop depth after 12 miserably sparse years.

We are content with the building blocks of our team. We have a solid, solid foundation both at the NHL level and among our prospects on the defensive front with guys like JJ, Tyutin, Nikitin, Murray, Moore, Savard, and Erixon, not to mention Wisniewski, whose biggest problem is his price tag, but whom we still like having around for his offense and leadership abilities. We have forwards in Dubinsky, Umberger, Dorsett, Foligno, and Prospal, among others, who may be lacking in top-tier skill, but will expect a lot from each other and hold each other accountable. While our goaltending situation is uncertain, it is not worth breaking up any other facet that we have tried to work on. Hopefully we can strike gold in one of Dansk, Korpisalo, or Forsberg. And while taking Murray may be vanilla compared to Galchenyuk, he was IMO the best defenseman available, and we've now got 3 picks next year on a forward-heavy crop to acquire that much-needed elite skill (and contrary to popular belief, Howson isn't as bad at drafting as is perceived).

Adding to this, Umberger and Vancouver/Kesler is a known and well-documented scuttlebutt. As much as I understand Vancouver would want quality in return for Luongo, don't expect it to come from Columbus, and even on what you would believe to be a low-ball offer, we'd probably still decline based on the whole Luongo-not-wanting-to-be-here-so-we-don't-want-him reasoning.

Hope that covers things.

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:26 AM
  #44
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not true a player with a NMC cannot be waived or komi would have been waived. so the statment that any player can be waived is wrong
Luongo doesn't have a NMC. He has a NTC. It's a limited NTC actually as it disappears at parts of his contract.

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:28 AM
  #45
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Hope that Perry goes the UFA route, so they can sign him?

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:32 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
I think Bourque has the size, toughness and speed to play in Van???
There are not enough ??? in the world to make that a good idea. He is lazy, undisciplined & stupid.

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:32 AM
  #47
Vankiller Whale
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Hope that Perry goes the UFA route, so they can sign him?
Thank you.

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11-12-2012, 12:58 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Montreal gets:

Ballard

Vancouver

Bourque



I think Bourque has the size, toughness and speed to play in Van???
I would do this trade

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Old
11-12-2012, 01:34 AM
  #49
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Luongo doesn't have a NMC. He has a NTC. It's a limited NTC actually as it disappears at parts of his contract.
I was responding to the statement that any player can be waived

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:18 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Van gets:

Umberger
Nikitin
This is the point at which I had to stop myself from just replying "**** off and die" and actually commit to reading the rest of the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Clb gets:

Luongo
This would be the part where I gave up on that noble endeavor.

We have stated several times: we do not want Luongo at anything even distantly resembling a fair price. This is going in the opposite direction. This is two of our best players for a guy we're not pursuing and some other project defenseman.

Most Vancouver fans have been pretty reasonable about this. By contrast, justifications for this particular proposal have exclusively consisted of lots of "YES YOU DO DO THIS BECAUSE YOU SUCK AND YOU ALWAYS SUCK AND YOU NEED CHANGE AND YOU SUCK AND YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOCKEY SO YOU DON'T KNOW THAT YOU SUCK AND THAT SUCKS BUT YOU STILL SUCK".

This does not hold up to prior standards and you should be ashamed.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Wow that defense is deep. Every single one of them is a top 4 defenseman, 4 are arguable top 2. Would be a fantastic move for the Canucks, good for Columbus too I think. Would likely be reluctant to give up Umberger though as he seems to be a good leader and player for them.
No. Assuming this is a good idea for Columbus requires massively underrating just how effective Nikitin was as soon as he got here. Unless and until he regresses to the mean AND WE SEE IT HAPPEN (speculation from other teams' fans wanting to wheel and deal not welcome nor accepted in this regard ) he ain't goin' anywhere.

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