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2013 Canada World Junior team - anyone care to take a stab?

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Old
11-11-2012, 05:25 AM
  #551
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Originally Posted by bsmith14 View Post
I find it hilarious how the draft eligble fan boys come out of the wood works every year during the WJC. I will save and post this message for years to come....

WJC is an 18 and 19 year old tournament. Only uber elite 17 year olds make it. If you follow world juniors or junior hockey in general you would understand this. Even the hopkins, seguins, duchenes, and skinners of the world get left off. No, hockey Canada will not put Drouin, McDavid, Domi etc over Rattie, Strome, Monahan, Ritchie. I realize that this is a hockey forum where opinion matters but I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

In most cases a 2nd round 19 year old scoring winger is a better player currently than a potential top 15 first round pick. It does not mean they have more potential but in the case of the WJC who is better currently matters a great deal.
Just because you and others have bought in to the HC line of age trumps skill doesn't mean everybody has to, nor does it make it the right approach. I say there's another way. Why does HC apparently show an obvious double standard with regards to the WJC and the WC? Why is it young players can play at the WC, i.e. undrafted 18 year old d-men (Murrary) but an undrafted 17 year old is deemed not yet ready for a tournament within his peer group? Quite frankly Hockey Canada is spinning BS and a lot of "traditionalists buy in to it." My argument is with so many 18 and 19 year old players sticking in the NHL and not being released, replace skill with skill...not skill for some 19 year old 6,4 215 lb player and he's 5 OHL goals. Quite frankly, that philosophy hasn't quite worked out so well the past 3 years... so lets try something new and lets see where it gets us. If we are going to lose, then I'd rater lose with Drouin on the team than a Tom Wilson type player. You have to be prepared to change and adapt with the times... I think Drouin is more than ready to handle the World Juniors...so was Mackinnon last year, and RNH the year before that and Seguin etc and all the other players they cut or didn't invitite because they at HC are locked into this moronic concept that the WJC is a tournament for 19 year old players. I don't buy that argument and never will buy that argument.

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11-11-2012, 06:54 AM
  #552
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^ hear hear!~ the teams should be picked on merit not by the birth date!

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11-11-2012, 07:28 AM
  #553
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It would be lunancy if HC doesn't seriously consider Drouin. Invite him to camp and evaluate him without prejudice. He is too skilled and smart to let his birthdate affect his chances.

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11-11-2012, 07:48 AM
  #554
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It would be lunancy if HC doesn't seriously consider Drouin. Invite him to camp and evaluate him without prejudice. He is too skilled and smart to let his birthdate affect his chances.
Unfortunately for those of us with open minds, Hockey Canada is prone to bouts of lunacy. One day perhaps they'll change their thinking and M.O.... but I doubt it... They'll invite Drouin to camp and they'll find some excuse to cut him and Mackinnon will be the 13th forward and see limited action while Tom Wilson (sorry Tom, I always pick on you) will be given (not earned) a more predominate role. That's just the way HC likes to roll.

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11-11-2012, 10:11 AM
  #555
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I'd like to see guys like Coraddo, Leivo,, Percy, Droulin make the team.

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11-11-2012, 10:39 AM
  #556
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The first 3 you named won't be there....

Drouin should make it.

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11-11-2012, 10:51 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Unfortunately for those of us with open minds, Hockey Canada is prone to bouts of lunacy. One day perhaps they'll change their thinking and M.O.... but I doubt it... They'll invite Drouin to camp and they'll find some excuse to cut him and Mackinnon will be the 13th forward and see limited action while Tom Wilson (sorry Tom, I always pick on you) will be given (not earned) a more predominate role. That's just the way HC likes to roll.
Drouin and Wilson won't be fighting for the same spot though. Wilson will be fighting for a energy/checking line job while Drouin will be fighting with guys like Rattie, Huberdeau and MacKinnon for a spot as a scoring line winger.

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11-11-2012, 10:59 AM
  #558
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I know Canada is loaded on defense this year, but Michael Matheson has been filthy for BC so far. They will probably have to give him a look. Very fast, great hands, pushes the play offensively. Has been logging tons of minutes for BC. Top pairing, point on the top PP unit, and killing penalties.

He was born February 1994. Will he be eligible for the WJC next year too?

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11-11-2012, 11:06 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by VanW27 View Post
Drouin and Wilson won't be fighting for the same spot though. Wilson will be fighting for a energy/checking line job while Drouin will be fighting with guys like Rattie, Huberdeau and MacKinnon for a spot as a scoring line winger.
Honestly if the NHL lockout is still going on, I think Canada should go with three offensive lines and just the one defensive/grit line. Give RNH one line, Scheifele/Strome another, and put Monahan on the third line to provide a defensive presence but with offensive wingers. The defensive line should be a combination of Jenner, Danault, Hudon. Something like:

Huberdeau Nugent-Hopkins MacKinnon
Scheifele Strome Rattie
Drouin Monahan Griffith
Hudon Jenner Danault

Support that forward group with the loaded defence and watch the goals pour into the other team's net.

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11-11-2012, 11:20 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by VanW27 View Post
Drouin and Wilson won't be fighting for the same spot though. Wilson will be fighting for a energy/checking line job while Drouin will be fighting with guys like Rattie, Huberdeau and MacKinnon for a spot as a scoring line winger.
That's only if you buy in to the concept of Top 6 Bottom 6 philosophy which again I do not. Not for a national team. I believe top 13 forward players with some players having to adopt to a slightly different role, i.e. Boone Jenner is 4th. line center on a checking line. The other 3 lines are offense loaded, puck possession take it too em hard type of lines. Frankly I'm sick and tired of the Brian Burke NHL philosophy of dumb it down keep it simple stupid chip it in and chip it out approach. I don't see why a Drouin-Mackinnon-Huberdeau 2nd. line wouldn't work more effectively on big Euro ice than a 2nd line of I don't know, pick your line, LW (don't know who) Schieffle, Rattie. Quite frankly, I've never been sold on Shieffle as a 1st or 2nd line center anyway ...

And my point was Wilson will be given a more predominate role over Mackinnon whereas Drouin will be cut, if he evens gets an invite to camp (at least that's how HC has done it in the past.)

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11-11-2012, 11:24 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
Honestly if the NHL lockout is still going on, I think Canada should go with three offensive lines and just the one defensive/grit line. Give RNH one line, Scheifele/Strome another, and put Monahan on the third line to provide a defensive presence but with offensive wingers. The defensive line should be a combination of Jenner, Danault, Hudon. Something like:

Huberdeau Nugent-Hopkins MacKinnon
Scheifele Strome Rattie
Drouin Monahan Griffith
Hudon Jenner Danault


Support that forward group with the loaded defence and watch the goals pour into the other team's net.
Exactly...something along those lines. Although Griffith I'd have to take a pass on as he's not a very good skater. But we are speaking the same language unlike the NHL and NHLPA.

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11-11-2012, 12:05 PM
  #562
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I dont think its the fact that they dont want younger guys on the team, they just want the more experienced, physically mature players. If the guy isnt an absolute extreme case (Mackinnon will make it) they'll often go with a more experienced guy. And yeah you keep going on about Drouin not making it but Wilson will, well they arent competing for the same spot. I know you dont like the idea of an energy guy like that but it has worked exceptionally well for Canada in the past to shake up momentum and scare some teams.

I dont know if Wilson is that guy but theyve always brought someone like that.

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11-11-2012, 12:19 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
The first 3 you named won't be there....

Drouin should make it.
Corrado is playing at a higher level in the OHL than just about all the defensman in that league.

Just cause he was a 5th rounder doesn't mean he has no chance.

He has definitely earned an invite.

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Old
11-11-2012, 12:32 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
I dont think its the fact that they dont want younger guys on the team, they just want the more experienced, physically mature players. If the guy isnt an absolute extreme case (Mackinnon will make it) they'll often go with a more experienced guy. And yeah you keep going on about Drouin not making it but Wilson will, well they arent competing for the same spot. I know you dont like the idea of an energy guy like that but it has worked exceptionally well for Canada in the past to shake up momentum and scare some teams.

I dont know if Wilson is that guy but theyve always brought someone like that.
You have to get over that belief that it scares other teams. It doesn't. It may create a bit of a tactical advantage on small NHL size rinks, but in Europe the effect is neutralized. And how did all that experience and physical mature players prevent the implosion in Buffalo? How did it help in the semi-final last year when obviously the more experienced players were not prepared to begin that game. It's a myth a myth that this is a tournament for 19 year old players. A myth that HC has been preaching for years..it's a skill tournament..the team that has the skill will have the advantage..

And that will be my last post on how HC selects teams for the WJC. I'm sure everybody here is tired of me writing the same rant against HC for the past few months. Lets see what they do in the event a lockout is still raging.

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11-11-2012, 06:15 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
You have to get over that belief that it scares other teams. It doesn't. It may create a bit of a tactical advantage on small NHL size rinks, but in Europe the effect is neutralized. And how did all that experience and physical mature players prevent the implosion in Buffalo? How did it help in the semi-final last year when obviously the more experienced players were not prepared to begin that game. It's a myth a myth that this is a tournament for 19 year old players. A myth that HC has been preaching for years..it's a skill tournament..the team that has the skill will have the advantage..

And that will be my last post on how HC selects teams for the WJC. I'm sure everybody here is tired of me writing the same rant against HC for the past few months. Lets see what they do in the event a lockout is still raging.
It worked for them when they won 5 golds in a row, thats probably why they like it so much. You think if they brought some younger players that that meltdown doesnt happen last year? I doubt it because 9 times out of 10, the older players have the more mature defensive game and are more accustomed to playing in high stakes games.

As for it not scaring anyone, youve got to be kidding me. European juniors especially curl up and wilt away when the Canadians up their physical play. I know plenty of tough guys in the OHL were acared lining up with Zack Kassian in the OHL, you dont think a small European is intimidated by a guy like that? Youre dreaming if you do

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11-12-2012, 04:31 AM
  #566
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It worked for them when they won 5 golds in a row, thats probably why they like it so much. You think if they brought some younger players that that meltdown doesnt happen last year? I doubt it because 9 times out of 10, the older players have the more mature defensive game and are more accustomed to playing in high stakes games.

As for it not scaring anyone, youve got to be kidding me. European juniors especially curl up and wilt away when the Canadians up their physical play. I know plenty of tough guys in the OHL were acared lining up with Zack Kassian in the OHL, you dont think a small European is intimidated by a guy like that? Youre dreaming if you do
It may intimidate some of the lesser lites, but none of the big boys i.e. the Finns, Russians, Swedes... forget it, they're not scared or intimidated by Canada's physical game..it's just another in game tactic which they can game plan for and make adjustments especially on Euro ice.... What worked 5 times in a row doesn't work anymore especially since 7-9 players are sticking in the NHL year after year. And we are not selecting teams correctly to compensate for that....This year could be different since there's a lockout...so lets see what happens.
And just to point out to you, Canadians generally speaking are further ahead on the hockey developmental curve than our European counterparts.... why do you think at the U17 championships we can split our teams into 5 regions and all 5 compete. Ontario and West/BC can dominate those tournaments? a 17 year old undrafted Canadian is as physically mature and prepared to handle the pressures of an IIHF WJC....This I have no doubt... but of course many Canadians still buy in to HC's spin.

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11-12-2012, 04:42 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
It worked for them when they won 5 golds in a row, thats probably why they like it so much. You think if they brought some younger players that that meltdown doesnt happen last year? I doubt it because 9 times out of 10, the older players have the more mature defensive game and are more accustomed to playing in high stakes games.

As for it not scaring anyone, youve got to be kidding me. European juniors especially curl up and wilt away when the Canadians up their physical play. I know plenty of tough guys in the OHL were acared lining up with Zack Kassian in the OHL, you dont think a small European is intimidated by a guy like that? Youre dreaming if you do
I still think Hockey Canada's big mistake that year was not taking Riley Sheahan after he had an impressive camp. He would have helped stop the bleeding in Buffalo in my opinion.

Kassian got punted for part of the tournament if I remember right. Bringing that kind of a guy has benefits but also risks. I think Hockey Canada is always in a tough spot, but they have brought this on themselves for not always bringing the most talent. When you lose and that is the case you hear all about it. When they win they talk about the veteran nature and the guys knowing roles.

The real issue for Canada right now for me as an outside observer is their goalies stink usually. They just aren't all that great. It is even starting to show at the highest level. It is a problem they need to address.

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11-12-2012, 04:43 AM
  #568
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Exactly...something along those lines. Although Griffith I'd have to take a pass on as he's not a very good skater. But we are speaking the same language unlike the NHL and NHLPA.
Griffith is easily as good a skater as Rattie or Hudon, his deficiencies there are existant but overblown. Id say Ritchie or Graovac makes the team over him though due to the latter pair's phyiscality combined with goalscoring prowess (Griffith can score goals but cant do much else)

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11-12-2012, 04:44 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
It worked for them when they won 5 golds in a row, thats probably why they like it so much. You think if they brought some younger players that that meltdown doesnt happen last year? I doubt it because 9 times out of 10, the older players have the more mature defensive game and are more accustomed to playing in high stakes games.

As for it not scaring anyone, youve got to be kidding me. European juniors especially curl up and wilt away when the Canadians up their physical play. I know plenty of tough guys in the OHL were acared lining up with Zack Kassian in the OHL, you dont think a small European is intimidated by a guy like that? Youre dreaming if you do

so all europeans are small? north-americans needs to stop seeing europeans as the same thing, its a HUGE diffrence beetwen sweden and russia for exemple....and finland plays a very physical hockey etc.

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11-12-2012, 04:47 AM
  #570
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The real issue for Canada right now for me as an outside observer is their goalies stink usually. They just aren't all that great. It is even starting to show at the highest level. It is a problem they need to address.
100% agreed. I don't really see what they could do to help, but since the decline of Brodeur Canada has not had a top 5 goalie that can carry the national team. Price or Ward could get there, but it really is their one glaring weakness. That being said, Subban has played very well against both the OHL and Russia every time I've seen him, and I would think he will start all important games come the WJC

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11-12-2012, 04:59 AM
  #571
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I still think Hockey Canada's big mistake that year was not taking Riley Sheahan after he had an impressive camp. He would have helped stop the bleeding in Buffalo in my opinion.

Kassian got punted for part of the tournament if I remember right. Bringing that kind of a guy has benefits but also risks. I think Hockey Canada is always in a tough spot, but they have brought this on themselves for not always bringing the most talent. When you lose and that is the case you hear all about it. When they win they talk about the veteran nature and the guys knowing roles.

The real issue for Canada right now for me as an outside observer is their goalies stink usually. They just aren't all that great. It is even starting to show at the highest level. It is a problem they need to address.


Bingo. And HC has begun to address this... but an even better step would be to change the European import rule to 1 per team. Even better would be zero.

HC has begun with centralized summer camps for goaltenders in Calgary. Obviously it's going to take years for anything to materialize.

Beyond that... lets hope a few late bloomers appear on the horizon in short order.

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11-12-2012, 05:12 AM
  #572
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Griffith is easily as good a skater as Rattie or Hudon, his deficiencies there are existant but overblown. Id say Ritchie or Graovac makes the team over him though due to the latter pair's phyiscality combined with goalscoring prowess (Griffith can score goals but cant do much else)
Perhaps.. we'll see! But since you seem to be a London Knights fan... I'm a little skeptical. Has Griffith ever at any time been involved with any edition of Team Canada, either at an IIHF U18 or an Ivan Hlinka tournament? I haven't seen a whole lot of him.. but I looked last year as I had him on my list as a contender for an invitation to December camp.. but was never impressed with his skating, I'll admit only 4 or 5 games watched.. so, I'll watch again tonight to see how he does.

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11-12-2012, 09:55 AM
  #573
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11-12-2012, 09:57 AM
  #574
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Tell me about it, with decent goaltending they probably have 8 WJC Gold medals in a row, at least 7 in the last 8 years.

Goaltending has killed us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I still think Hockey Canada's big mistake that year was not taking Riley Sheahan after he had an impressive camp. He would have helped stop the bleeding in Buffalo in my opinion.

Kassian got punted for part of the tournament if I remember right. Bringing that kind of a guy has benefits but also risks. I think Hockey Canada is always in a tough spot, but they have brought this on themselves for not always bringing the most talent. When you lose and that is the case you hear all about it. When they win they talk about the veteran nature and the guys knowing roles.

The real issue for Canada right now for me as an outside observer is their goalies stink usually. They just aren't all that great. It is even starting to show at the highest level. It is a problem they need to address.

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11-12-2012, 10:01 AM
  #575
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I am all for limiting import players but probably wouldn't go to a zero limit as I think it may shrink the talent base of the league too much and hurt player development.

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[/B]

Bingo. And HC has begun to address this... but an even better step would be to change the European import rule to 1 per team. Even better would be zero.

HC has begun with centralized summer camps for goaltenders in Calgary. Obviously it's going to take years for anything to materialize.

Beyond that... lets hope a few late bloomers appear on the horizon in short order.

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