You offered a deal where we give up Luongo and Toronto gives up Phaneuf. There is zero reason why Minny is in the trade, Phaneuf holds so much more value than Heatley.
Sure, we could still do a 3-way trade, but let's get a good player instead of a very overpaid 2nd liner past his prime.
I just thought Minny is a little thin on the blueline and could use an addition. Suter + Phaneuf makes them stronger on the backend and could afford to give up Heatley with the signing of Parise.
I agree, let's hope we get a good player. However, we got to be realistic and Luongo holds a little bit of negative value because of his contract.
Bozak is basically as valuable as Heatley in regards to what they bring to the ice these days. nevermind the difference in salary
And the suggested trades with Toronto included a package of prospects and a player like bozak.
Seriously? Bozak is horrible. Only reason he puts up as much points as he does is because he gets top line ice time with Kessel. Put him on our 3rd line and remove his PP time -- I doubt he cracks 40 points.
And don't bother to say he's good defensively to makeup for it
I just thought Minny is a little thin on the blueline and could use an addition. Suter + Phaneuf makes them stronger on the backend and could afford to give up Heatley with the signing of Parise.
I agree, let's hope we get a good player. However, we got to be realistic and Luongo holds a little bit of negative value because of his contract.
Yes, Luongo isn't worth a goalie with similar skill but is 25 years old and signed for 5 years.
I know we need a top 6 forward.
I have not disagreed with you yet, except on the value of Heatley.
He is not worth Phaneuf, he is not worth Luongo.
St. Louis is another team that needs a left handed top 4 d-man, and they have a bunch of good top 6 forwards (who aren't on the decline and severely overpaid) and two very good prospects who might be NHL ready.
There are much better options out there for a 3-way trade.
Yes, Luongo isn't worth a goalie with similar skill but is 25 years old and signed for 5 years.
I know we need a top 6 forward.
I have not disagreed with you yet, except on the value of Heatley.
He is not worth Phaneuf, he is not worth Luongo.
St. Louis is another team that needs a left handed top 4 d-man, and they have a bunch of good top 6 forwards (who aren't on the decline and severely overpaid) and two very good prospects who might be NHL ready.
There are much better options out there for a 3-way trade.
Agree. I proposed an Edler for Tarasenko swap a while back, and they were okay with it if Edler could be re-signed.
Although in case people missed it, from the main boards:
Lupul, Bozak, and a 1st conditional on playoffs or it becomes a 2nd. Sound good?
Gives us a top-6 winger, a 3rd line C, and a very good chance at a solid prospect.
The Leafs make room for Colborne/Kadri to try out as their number 1 C, and sell high on a winger who likely wouldn't re-sign if the team decides to rebuild for a while. They are also guaranteed not to be burned Kessel style as the pick's conditional.
Seriously? Bozak is horrible. Only reason he puts up as much points as he does is because he gets top line ice time with Kessel. Put him on our 3rd line and remove his PP time -- I doubt he cracks 40 points.
And don't bother to say he's good defensively to makeup for it
I dont think Bozak is that good to be honest, but I dont think Heatley brings much at all either, thats what I was getting at.
Truthfully these days, they aren't that far apart, bozak probably would bring more in the playoffs just because of work ethic because heatley doesn't have any whatsoever
Also heatley gets #1 line minutes (more than bozak) and puts up pathetic numbers the past couple years and i dont see that changing
then there is age and salary. and the addition of the other good prospects to the trade proposals
Anyway i dont want either. I was simply making a point that Heatley is that pathetic nowadays that Bozak is probably on par with Heatley when it comes to value in a trade
Last edited by pseudonymous01: 11-11-2012 at 09:54 PM.
I dont think Bozak is that good to be honest, but I dont think Heatley brings much at all either, thats what I was getting at.
Truthfully these days, they aren't that far apart, bozak probably would bring more in the playoffs just because of work ethic because heatley doesn't have any whatsoever
Also heatley gets #1 line minutes (more than bozak) and puts up pathetic numbers the past couple years and i dont see that changing
then there is age and salary. and the addition of the other good prospects to the trade proposals
Anyway i dont want either. I was simply making a point that Heatley is that pathetic nowadays that Bozak is probably on par with Heatley when it comes to value in a trade
Heatley might not be putting up the numbers he used to, but at least he can still drive the possession and control the game while facing other top lines. Bozak can't and is a total train wreck, one of the worst players on the Leafs who's only passable because he's given Lupul and Kessel to work with. Bozak isn't even as good as Matt Stajan and people made fun of Calgary when that was one of the main pieces in the Phaneuf trade. He would find himself waived within a week if he were traded here. Worthless player. (Beyond advanced stats, Heatley finished +2 playing pretty tough minutes on a **** team. He's a guy that could easily slot in on a 2nd line here with Kesler and wouldn't drag it down.)
The fact that there is actually some sort of legitimate discussion around Bozak just shows how bad things are in regards to the lockout.
Don't want heatley's caphit or Phaneuf's, instantly being the highest paid on the team. I'm not into T.O.'s mid-level or risk-reward prospects. Kadri is iffy, Colborne seems like a big, soft floater. I want a big-time prospect or player, even if we have to add something valuable. Luongo as the main piece should be able to get that done. If T.O. won't talk JVR, or Gardiner, or Rielly, or at least the 1st... then I'm shopping Luongo elsewhere, Luongo-plus if it has to be, as long as we get a very good player or blue-chipper. Otherwise, I don't see anything else from T.O. helping more than marginally now, or in the future.... just dumping Luongo for scraps.
I don't want Bozak. A temporary replacement for an injured player, when we have a solid 2-way Shroeder ready for a call-up? No thanks. I'm not convinced Kulemin is the 30 goal-scorer... I'd say more like a 15-20, or less depending on ice-time on a deep team like Van. For a star goalie? no thanks.
No to MacArthur and no to Franson.
Is it coincidence that T.O's "untouchables" are the only pieces Gillis likely has any real interest in? We have every right ask for them. What in the hell makes Finn any more valuable than Corrado right now? Not a damn thing!
Are we offering other teams Corrado, Raymond and a 2nd for their star players, or calling Corrado untoucheable? T.O. fans have no clue, they are most likely Van haters anyway. Luongo is worth much more than the crap they are offering up, and the crap some of the Canucks fans are agreeing to in some of these threads.
Worst case scenario, we keep Luongo longer, and trade Schnieder or Luongo when the time is right... T.O. isn't the only team. BS Florida has no interest. Say whatever they want, he's had injury troubles, he is anything but proven, and goalies are much trickier to read, he could completely bust while Luongo goes on to the HHOF.
Heatley might not be putting up the numbers he used to, but at least he can still drive the possession and control the game while facing other top lines. Bozak can't and is a total train wreck, one of the worst players on the Leafs who's only passable because he's given Lupul and Kessel to work with. Bozak isn't even as good as Matt Stajan and people made fun of Calgary when that was one of the main pieces in the Phaneuf trade. He would find himself waived within a week if he were traded here. Worthless player. (Beyond advanced stats, Heatley finished +2 playing pretty tough minutes on a **** team. He's a guy that could easily slot in on a 2nd line here with Kesler and wouldn't drag it down.)
The fact that there is actually some sort of legitimate discussion around Bozak just shows how bad things are in regards to the lockout.
Im not changing my mind, when it comes to the playoffs, those kind of players are utterly worthless. You need drive and he completely lacks it now.
I rather have his capspace. and bozak. everytime
and i dont even think bozak is that good for a player. nor do i want him
its tough to win with players like Heatley because you just know theyre always going to get top minutes. because the name on their jersey and potential.
people never consider that, it reminds me of those conversations about jokinen and how he'd be good if you dropped him down to 2nd-3rd line and used him for depth. when in reality, he'll never be used like that, what he will be used for is taking away time from more beneficial players. theyll ALWAYS get their top line minutes on whatever team they play for.
and to further prove that, you even mentioning him playing against other teams top lines shows that, the same kind of thinking the coach might have and end up using him more than he should. heatley shouldn't be a big part of any team anymore
Last edited by pseudonymous01: 11-11-2012 at 10:52 PM.
I am not a troll and have followed the Canucks for many years. I didn't like that horrible contract when it was first signed and still don't. His cap hit may be ok, but the contract goes on and on (and maybe even after he retires). I obviously don't see the same value in Lu as you do.
I was suggesting that the young players acquired from TO could be packaged and traded for a player that the team needs. The 1st in itself will probably be an excellent prospect in a very good class. Both of the prospects were high draft picks and have solid potential.
I do not want to see the Canucks squander away a season with a 10m cap hit goalie tandem. Lu is ready to move on and I'm sure he doesn't want to squander away a season in Vancouver.
I guess we'll see which one of is right about Lu's value if/when the season gets going. Although I prefer your scenario to be right, I just don't have any faith in it.
Could care less where a prospect is drafted. It only matters on draft day - 4 years later it means jack ****.
Squandering a season with $10 million invested in goalies? Don't see an issue....where else are you going to spend it? Cap space is useless if you have nothing to spend it on.
....feel like a broken record...
The 1st is the most valuable piece, but you used the word yourself it "probably" be an excellent prospect- how probable?
No matter the draft the probability of your 1st round pick after the top 5 becoming an impact star is very low...so you trade a star for two meddling prospects and a 1st....I don't, we either need a 'now' piece or an absolute blue chipper - ie Gudbranson, Rielly, Gardiner types
Im not changing my mind, when it comes to the playoffs, those kind of players are utterly worthless. You need drive and he completely lacks it now.
I rather have his capspace. and bozak. everytime
and i dont even think bozak is that good for a player. nor do i want him
its tough to win with players like Heatley because you just know theyre always going to get top minutes. because the name on their jersey and potential.
people never consider that, it reminds me of those conversations about jokinen and how he'd be good if you dropped him down to 2nd-3rd line and used him for depth. when in reality, he'll never be used like that, what he will be used for is taking away time from more beneficial players. theyll ALWAYS get their top line minutes on whatever team they play for.
and to further prove that, you even mentioning him playing against other teams top lines shows that, the same kind of thinking the coach might have and end up using him more than he should. heatley shouldn't be a big part of any team anymore
Don't want him but heatley would likely score 40 with the twins.
We ***** and moan about having no natural finishers...Heatley is that.
Why do people want to dump Raymond, pretty simple, hes not good enough for the 2nd line of a stanley cup team and he wont get onto the third because we already have a better third and putting him on it takes away from the strength and grit. He can offer another team more
No thanks to Heatley. The guy has been unimpressive since being traded from Ottawa. Van fans got to see his disappearing act first hand in the playoffs against the Sharks a year ago.
Agree. I proposed an Edler for Tarasenko swap a while back, and they were okay with it if Edler could be re-signed.
Although in case people missed it, from the main boards:
Lupul, Bozak, and a 1st conditional on playoffs or it becomes a 2nd. Sound good?
Gives us a top-6 winger, a 3rd line C, and a very good chance at a solid prospect.
The Leafs make room for Colborne/Kadri to try out as their number 1 C, and sell high on a winger who likely wouldn't re-sign if the team decides to rebuild for a while. They are also guaranteed not to be burned Kessel style as the pick's conditional.
I'd do it but the Leafs are unlikely to move Lupul after his season, otherwise I feel a deal would have been done by now. If we could get that package for Luongo, by all means.
At least with Kulemin you get an NHL quality piece....the prospects pick package from TO doesn't entice me in the slightest...not a fan of the prospects and don't trust our scouts with the pick.
Even if you don't trust our scouts, you would think we could trust MG to make the right call every time in the 1st round. He makes the decision anyway, doesn't he?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan
Keep him. The market is setting up perfectly for a maximum return IMO. A short schedule and a bad start sure to poor goaltending spell no playoffs. A team will overpay.
Heatley might not be putting up the numbers he used to, but at least he can still drive the possession and control the game while facing other top lines. Bozak can't and is a total train wreck, one of the worst players on the Leafs who's only passable because he's given Lupul and Kessel to work with. Bozak isn't even as good as Matt Stajan and people made fun of Calgary when that was one of the main pieces in the Phaneuf trade. He would find himself waived within a week if he were traded here. Worthless player. (Beyond advanced stats, Heatley finished +2 playing pretty tough minutes on a **** team. He's a guy that could easily slot in on a 2nd line here with Kesler and wouldn't drag it down.)
The fact that there is actually some sort of legitimate discussion around Bozak just shows how bad things are in regards to the lockout.
Yes but have you *watched* Bozak play Tiranis? Have you?
Anyways, agreed on Bozak. And for Heatley, it will always come down to what you are giving up.
Like I said, I would take my chances on Colborne before Bozak. But that's neither here nor there. The real reason his name keeps popping up is due the Damien Cox rumour that included him within the asking price. You can't fault people for speculating given that fact.
Does it not worry you then, when Bozak's name was brought up in rumours about a VAN-TOR trade? ****ty pro scouting at work again here?
It's a rumour. I don't see why I should take it seriously. Gillis had no interest in re-signing Wellwood who was and is a much better player than Bozak, in all facets of the game. I don't, for one second, believe that he actually has any interest in Bozak.
Hell, you can talk about ****** pro scouting, but Gillis has gone out and consistently acquired good corsi players (including Ballard). Bozak would, I belive, be the first to go against that.
It's a rumour. I don't see why I should take it seriously. Gillis had no interest in re-signing Wellwood who was and is a much better player than Bozak, in all facets of the game. I don't, for one second, believe that he actually has any interest in Bozak.
Hell, you can talk about ****** pro scouting, but Gillis has gone out and consistently acquired good corsi players (including Ballard). Bozak would, I belive, be the first to go against that.
Which makes the inclusion of him and Frattin in the rumour puzzling. Even as throw ins they offer questionable longevity... It just doesn't make sense. Either Gillis has scrapped the advanced stats approach altogether, or he's lost perspective. Neither option appealing.
Which makes the inclusion of him and Frattin in the rumour puzzling. Even as throw ins they offer questionable longevity... It just doesn't make sense. Either Gillis has scrapped the advanced stats approach altogether, or he's lost perspective. Neither option appealing.
Or it's a bogus rumour... ? Gillis has done quite a few trades, some of them took months and months to execute and we have never heard a reliable rumour until it was about to go down. I don't see why anything would change now.
Not to mention that Damien Cox has never predicted a trade in his life. That's worse than trusting Botchford about Gaborik signing in Vancouver.
Or it's a bogus rumour... ? Gillis has done quite a few trades, some of them took months and months to execute and we have never heard a reliable rumour until it was about to go down. I don't see why anything would change now.
Not to mention that Damien Cox has never predicted a trade in his life. That's worse than trusting Botchford about Gaborik signing in Vancouver.
I don't disregard the rumour altogether. However, I do question it's contents. Gardiner and a 1st make absolute sense to target. Frattin, despite not establishing himself in the NHL, is the _type_ of player I could see Gillis target. Even Bozak, who I'm not really a fan of, makes sense as a 3C option.
That's the thing about that rumour. The pieces, not their quality, just make logical sense. It's why it's difficult to ignore.
nevermind the difference in salary
