HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Jack Johnson Vs. Dion Phaneuf

View Poll Results: Whom would you rather have on your team going forward?
Jack Johnson 54 31.03%
Dion Phaneuf 120 68.97%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-11-2012, 04:42 PM
  #26
ottawa
Avatar of the Year*
 
ottawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,984
vCash: 69
Phaneuf quite easily

ottawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 04:55 PM
  #27
bp spec
Registered User
 
bp spec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,984
vCash: 500
Jack Johnson isn't terrible by any means. But for me, Phaneuf takes this quite easily.

bp spec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:00 PM
  #28
tony d
Summer Camp
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,090
vCash: 500
Dion Phaneuf

__________________
tony d is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:07 PM
  #29
bruinsfan46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The hate on Jack Johnson here is way overblown.

He's right now a #2 defenseman and was playing like a top-pairing guy in Columbus. Don't care about what he did before he got here.
Garbage time of the season on a really poor team, remember all those years where the Leafs all of a sudden got really good the last 15ish games after being really bad the rest of the year? Teams start coasting who are in the playoffs and a lot of non-playoff teams just stop caring. It's a really small sample size anyway.

bruinsfan46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:28 PM
  #30
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
I would say first that Johnson basically lost to Slava Voinov in LA. You watch these guys play, Voinov's offensive game is miles ahead of Johnson if you subtract the difference in physical tools.

Johnson could score 60 points next year. But he would never reach 40 on a team that was any good. His defensive game is passable maybe 80 percent of the time, not good enough to be considered a defensive defenseman, but then he will blunder pretty badly.

However Johnson basically has the skill-set, in terms of puck possession and passing ability, of a forward, and he can physically dominate around the boards. Plus he's a pretty damn good skater.

Phaneuf, on the other hand, I think he might have even better skating than Johnson and more of a penchant for throwing hits. Really though, to think that Johnson is better, you basically have to ignore his entire career. Yeah sure this is about which player is better now, but Johnson has never been a player with the puck who you say "oh no, better not let Jack Johnson score" On the other hand Phaneuf had a period, and still with his slapper, where him getting the puck on the blueline was bad news.

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:33 PM
  #31
tututooter21
Registered User
 
tututooter21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: B.C.
Posts: 2,121
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace14 View Post
You wouldn't say that if he were on any other team.
He probabaly wouldn't because he probably wouldn't have seen him play. You guys need to stop picking on Columbus, so annoying.

tututooter21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:34 PM
  #32
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
Moreover this myth that the Bluejackets fans seem to have that "his play before he came here doesn't matter" is just that, a myth. Ignoring the vast majority of Johnson's career is an exceptionally poor way to evaluate his current abilities.

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:02 PM
  #33
PierreMcGuire*
How dissapointing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Delta, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,750
vCash: 500
Phaneuf, but it's a lot closer than people are making it out to be.

PierreMcGuire* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:06 PM
  #34
deckercky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,044
vCash: 500
I think difference between the LA Jack Johnson and the CLB Jack Johnson has a lot to do with the systems. Some players work better in certain systems. Johnson works better in a system built around transition game, and just plain doesn't work in a stifling defence first, second and third system.

Phaneuf is probably better, but it's a pretty close call.

deckercky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:08 PM
  #35
Moore Money
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,886
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The hate on Jack Johnson here is way overblown.

He's right now a #2 defenseman and was playing like a top-pairing guy in Columbus. Don't care about what he did before he got here.
I agree, it's just typical HF nonsense.

Moore Money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:45 PM
  #36
The Green Unit
Registered User
 
The Green Unit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Yugoslavia
Posts: 5,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
I agree, it's just typical HF nonsense.
He may be fitted better in CBJ's system, still (damn) small sample size though, but he definitely was an unreliable defence-man throughout his career up to now. The truth is that Jack Johnson has gotten too much of an overhype.


And he's not close to worth his contract yet.


Call me an hater

The Green Unit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 08:15 AM
  #37
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
Wouldn't you hate an overhyped POS that your team might be convinced to trade valuable things for?

The with/without numbers are from the San Jose series the year before the trade. When JJ was on the ice the Kings were recording less than 1/3 of all scoring chances, whereas without him that climbs to above 4/9, a realm where a goalie could steal enough games to win the series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Phaneuf AINEC. Johnson is a terrible player.
If you're so numbers-centric with advanced statistics, why don't you pull up the postseason QoC and RelCORSI for JMFJ vs any other Kings defenseman from 2011 - INCLUDING Doughty?

EDIT: Specifically, special teams stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
I would say first that Johnson basically lost to Slava Voinov in LA. You watch these guys play, Voinov's offensive game is miles ahead of Johnson if you subtract the difference in physical tools.
No. Johnson's contract lost to Voynov's contract.

Quote:
Johnson could score 60 points next year. But he would never reach 40 on a team that was any good. His defensive game is passable maybe 80 percent of the time, not good enough to be considered a defensive defenseman, but then he will blunder pretty badly.

However Johnson basically has the skill-set, in terms of puck possession and passing ability, of a forward, and he can physically dominate around the boards. Plus he's a pretty damn good skater.

Phaneuf, on the other hand, I think he might have even better skating than Johnson and more of a penchant for throwing hits. Really though, to think that Johnson is better, you basically have to ignore his entire career.
Is the poll for "now" or "career"?

Quote:
Yeah sure this is about which player is better now
Gotcha.

Quote:
but Johnson has never been a player with the puck who you say "oh no, better not let Jack Johnson score" On the other hand Phaneuf had a period, and still with his slapper, where him getting the puck on the blueline was bad news.
Phaneuf has also never been a guy where the other team is worried "Well, better not put our best offensive forwards on the ice. DION PHANEUF is out there to prevent us from scoring."


Last edited by pdd: 11-12-2012 at 12:26 PM.
pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 08:27 AM
  #38
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 13,028
vCash: 50
"Whom would you rather have on your team going forward?"

Jack Johnson.

If it asked who was the better player now and going forward then I'd probably have to answer Phaneuf even though I like JJ better.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 08:52 AM
  #39
Hynh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
If you're so numbers-centric with advanced statistics, why don't you pull up the postseason QoC and RelCORSI for JMFJ vs any other Kings defenseman from 2011 - INCLUDING Doughty?
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Doughty and Johnson both get >50% offensive zone starts but the difference is that Doughty does it against better players and actually wins the battle.

EDIT: I see you said postseason.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Similar story only less flattering to Johnson, probably due to sample size issues.

Hynh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 09:13 AM
  #40
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 34,337
vCash: 256
Close but Phaneuf overall is the better of the 2

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 11:57 AM
  #41
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,434
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Clearly a quality article from an impartial author -
Have you considered the fact that his hatred of Jack Johnson might stem from the fact that he's terrible and the most overrated defenceman in the NHL?

Actually eva unit zero brings up an interesting concept. Why don't they convert Johnson to forward? He's fast, he's clearly got some offensive ability, and then his defensive warts wouldn't be such an issue.

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 12:23 PM
  #42
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Doughty and Johnson both get >50% offensive zone starts but the difference is that Doughty does it against better players and actually wins the battle.

EDIT: I see you said postseason.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...4+45+46+63+67#

Similar story only less flattering to Johnson, probably due to sample size issues.
Sorry, I forgot to specify PK/PP.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 12:26 PM
  #43
TylerSVT*
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,378
vCash: 500
Phanuef is pretty terrible in his own end and gets caught pretty often.

TylerSVT* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 12:28 PM
  #44
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
Phanuef is pretty terrible in his own end and gets caught pretty often.
No he's really not that terrible. He plays against teams top players every game and plays a ton of minutes.

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 12:39 PM
  #45
Stansfield*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
Phanuef is pretty terrible in his own end and gets caught pretty often.
If you replaced "Phaneuf"with "Johnson", that sentence would be an understatement.

Stansfield* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 02:00 PM
  #46
Khris Creider
Registered User
 
Khris Creider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Phaneuf

Khris Creider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 03:06 PM
  #47
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 5,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
Phanuef is pretty terrible in his own end and gets caught pretty often.
Stats suggest otherwise.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 03:09 PM
  #48
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
If you're so numbers-centric with advanced statistics, why don't you pull up the postseason QoC and RelCORSI for JMFJ vs any other Kings defenseman from 2011 - INCLUDING Doughty?

EDIT: Specifically, special teams stats.



No. Johnson's contract lost to Voynov's contract.



Is the poll for "now" or "career"?



Gotcha.



Phaneuf has also never been a guy where the other team is worried "Well, better not put our best offensive forwards on the ice. DION PHANEUF is out there to prevent us from scoring."
Gotta wonder how much of jack johnson you have actually seen play after these comments. He was lucky to play on the most stifling defense in the league and he still put up awful plus minus and he wasnt used for a shutdown role.

Again, this is pretty obvious, the best way to evaluate players is on past performance rather than a small sample size , and really that is undebatable

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 05:37 PM
  #49
eklunds source
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ed Snider's basement
Posts: 8,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PierreMcGuire* View Post
Phaneuf, but it's a lot closer than people are making it out to be.
No, it's actually farther apart than most people think. Johnson is Marc-Andre Bergeron with better physical tools (skating, etc). He may actually be in the bottom-10 in the league for scariest in his own zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
Phanuef is pretty terrible in his own end and gets caught pretty often.
Johnson is easily worse. He may not get caught out of position as often, but even when he's in position he doesn't know what to do and absolutely bleeds shots and scoring chances against.


I second the thought that he should be tried at wing. He has the skating and shot and instincts... He just hasn't evolved his defensive game since Peewee.

eklunds source is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 06:25 PM
  #50
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
i think the fact that there was open discussion about shifting Johnson to forward amongst fans says it all

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.