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Old
11-12-2012, 07:50 AM
  #76
Carlzner
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
By that logic I guess we should trade Ovechkin for Lupul.

Caps would be dumb not to do this.
Except that Kulemin is the main piece coming back, while Perreault isn't the main piece leaving...

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11-12-2012, 08:41 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Toronto isn't going to trade their #1 centre and their best defensive forward who's also 1 season removed from 30 goals for Roberto Luongo.... the other pieces involved aren't going to change that.
for a starting goalie? ya bozak can go

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Old
11-12-2012, 09:11 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Except that Kulemin is the main piece coming back, while Perreault isn't the main piece leaving...
kulemin is a crap shoot. i would much rather have johansson than kulemin. i dont want ballard who is a failure and on a hideous contract. no

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Old
11-12-2012, 11:34 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MW6 View Post
I'm going to start of saying that I'm a Caps fan, and I've been trying to figure out a way for all the three involved teams to get the most bang for the buck while helping eachother out. Meaning I think it's useless for teams to have a player riding the bench while getting paid to be a contributer on one team when he, or the capspace that comes with him, might acctually make a difference on another.

I have also looked at needs within the organisation and tried to fill the holes to IMO make all of them as competitive as possible. Although I obviously want the Caps to come out ahead, I think this should make all teams better. I may not be totally accurate on who plays on which position, but the following lines look pretty OK to me.

Keep in mind that while downgrading on one position, the capspace created might allow an upgrade on a more important position. If you feel I'm out of line, please be constructive on why it isn't fair, or what might be a better solution.

..........................................................
Clarke MacArthur.................Marcus Johansson.........................Tyler Bozak
Matthew Lombardi...............Roberto Luongo.............................Nikolai Kulemin
Mathieu Perreault.................Joel Ward.....................................Keith Ballard
Jesse Blacker.......................Andrew Alberts.............................Mason Raymond
Jeff Schultz

Vancouver recieves:...................Vancouver gives:
Clarke MacArthur...........................Roberto Luongo
Matthew Lombardi.........................Mason Raymond
Jesse Blacker................................Andrew Alberts
Jeff Schultz..................................Keith Ballard
Mathieu Perreault

Caphit: $12,070,000......................$13,033,333

Comments: Vancouver unloads Luongo's and Ballard's overpaid contracts (for their current roles on the team, back-up to-be(?) and bottom-pair D), saves $1,5M in capspace this year and a lot more going forward and while strengthening their top-9. They add Lombardi to play 3C and MacArthur to play on the 2nd or 3rd line. Jeff Schultz will battle for a roster spot on their bottom pair. Lack seems ready to back up Schneider and Perreault gives them some cheap depth to play up and down the lines. Raymond seems to be slated for the bottom-6 and isn't a integral piece anymore. Blacker is NHL-ready, but atleast re-stocks Vancouver's not very strong cupboard of prospects. Neither of the players leaving should halter the Canucks Win-now chances.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-MacArthur
Higgins-Lombardi-Hansen
Lapierre-Malhotra-Kassian
Perreault-Wise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Schultz-Tanev
Blacker

Schneider-Lack

Toronto recieves:.......................Toronto gives:
Roberto Luongo............................Matthew Lombardi
Marcus Johansson.........................Tyler Bozak
Joel Ward.....................................Nikolai Kulemin
Andrew Alberts.............................Clarke MacArthur
..................................................Jesse Blacker

Caphit: $10,458,333.....................$11,920,000

Comments: Toronto finally get their no.1 goalie, they add a young fast center with 1C potential that can easily play wing on the second line if not ready. Joel Ward, who was not given the right oppurtunities in Washington, solidifies the 3rd line and their specialteams, and Andrew Alberts is a 5-7 D-man with some snarl on a cheap contract. To get those 2 pieces (1G and maybe 1C) they have to sacrifice some of their depth on the wing. 3 UFA-to-be's (Lombardi, MacArthur and Bozak) are heading out, Kulemin although skilled and powerful had a horrible last year and could benefit from a change of scenary and Blacker is stuck behind all the depth on D in Toronto. They also save $1,5M in capspace.

Lupul-Johansson-Kessel
Van Riemsdyk-Grabovski-Connolly
Frattin-McClement-Ward
Komarov-Steckel-Brown
Kadri-Colborne

Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Liles
Alberts-Komisarek
Holzer

Luongo-Reimer

Washington recieves:.................Washington gives:
Tyler Bozak..................................Marcus Johansson
Nikolai Kulemin.............................Mathieu Perreault
Mason Raymond...........................Joel Ward
Keith Ballard................................Jeff Schultz

Caphit: $10,775,000.....................$7,700,000

Comments: While losing their future 2C and adding $3M in caphit with an uncertainty of how the capceiling is going to look moving forward, the Caps also create a better balance between their lines and have players playing up to their paygrades. Bozak allows Laich to play where he belongs as 2LW, Kulemin should be a really good compliment to Ovechkin and Backstrom, Raymond brings even more speed and skill to the third line and should benefit from a new surrounding. Ballard could also revive his carrer from getting top-4 minutes playing alongside Mike Green and allow the ageing Hamrlik to play sheltered minutes on the third pair while mentoring Orlov. Jeff Schultz has run out of favours in Washington and is making way to much to be sitting in the pressbox. Ward is very solid but didn't get the same opportunities as in Nashville and might be better used in Toronto. Perreault was promised top-6 minutes before re-signing, but is stuck behind 5-6 wingers and and isn't a top-2C in Washington.

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Kulemin
Laich-Ribeiro-Brouwer
Chimera-Bozak-Raymond
Hendricks-Beagle-Crabb
Wolski-Hamill

Alzner-Carlson
Ballard-Green
Hamrlik-Orlov
Erskine

Holtby-Neuvirth
My history may be a bit off but I think this would be one of the biggest trades in NHL history in terms of moving bodies.

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:48 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
kulemin is a crap shoot. i would much rather have johansson than kulemin. i dont want ballard who is a failure and on a hideous contract. no
A failure? The guys had once bad season....and he's played on two of the worst teams in the league at the time. I mean say what you will about the contract, and by the way, 4.2 is less then he'd have gotten in free agency, look at Wisniewski or Komisarek, but he earned that salary last year.


On a side note, I don't feel like skimming through the whole thread again, have we had any Washington fans in support of this trade?

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
A failure? The guys had once bad season....and he's played on two of the worst teams in the league at the time. I mean say what you will about the contract, and by the way, 4.2 is less then he'd have gotten in free agency, look at Wisniewski or Komisarek, but he earned that salary last year.


On a side note, I don't feel like skimming through the whole thread again, have we had any Washington fans in support of this trade?
maybe i am wrong, but has ballard been in and out of the lineup as in his play has not earned him a steady spot in the lineup or a ticket out of town to a team that thinks his paycheck equals out to a quality top 4 defenseman?

i live on the east coast, so maybe i have it wrong.

i think you are right that the caps fans say no to this suggestion

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:04 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
maybe i am wrong, but has ballard been in and out of the lineup as in his play has not earned him a steady spot in the lineup or a ticket out of town to a team that thinks his paycheck equals out to a quality top 4 defenseman?

i live on the east coast, so maybe i have it wrong.

i think you are right that the caps fans say no to this suggestion
You would be wrong. He hasn't been in an out of the line up due to not earning a spot its actually been more of an injury issue.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:06 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
maybe i am wrong, but has ballard been in and out of the lineup as in his play has not earned him a steady spot in the lineup or a ticket out of town to a team that thinks his paycheck equals out to a quality top 4 defenseman?

i live on the east coast, so maybe i have it wrong.

i think you are right that the caps fans say no to this suggestion
Two seasons ago when he was first acquired, Ballard struggled with recovering from his off-season surgery and wasn't able to secure an everyday spot. Hamhuis, Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff and Salo all outperformed him, and our coaches used the 6th spot as a rotating door. His performance last season was night and day compared to the previous, and he was a steady fixture on our blueline all year. Last season he was only in and out of the lineup due to injuries, and we played noticeably better when he was healthy.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:27 PM
  #84
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Regardless of how well Ballard's been playing, he's a horrible fit as Green's partner. Even at his best, his play in his own end was never a strong suit. The fact that he's under contract at such a high cap hit for three more years just makes his value to the Caps that much worse. I doubt they'd claim him if he went through waivers.

MW6, if you want a young power forward coming off a down year, I'd look at Chris Stewart. He's got a higher upside, lower downside, and, going by what I've seen on these boards, he'd probably cost less too.

One piece I'd be pretty interested in is Lombardi. I'm a fan of him from his days in Phoenix, really hope he can get back to where he was pre-concussion. I'd love to see him centering the third line alongside Chimera. Two of the worst shooters in the league, but damn they're fast. They'd get enough breakaways that they'd have to pot a few of them. If he could be had for a mid round pick, or maybe Ward, I'd definitely pull the trigger.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:29 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
maybe i am wrong, but has ballard been in and out of the lineup as in his play has not earned him a steady spot in the lineup or a ticket out of town to a team that thinks his paycheck equals out to a quality top 4 defenseman?

i live on the east coast, so maybe i have it wrong.

i think you are right that the caps fans say no to this suggestion
That was his initial season with us, his bad year. The only time Ballard was not in the line up last year is when he was injured. This is like us pegging Kulemin as a 7 goal scorer because of last year, and not letting go when he does better next season. I mean I wouldn't peg Ballard as a super valuable commodity, he's still buy-low, but he is far from a failure.

I think we may have scared them off

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:42 PM
  #86
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As a leafs fan, I think we should also throw in some KY as well.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:56 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Regardless of how well Ballard's been playing, he's a horrible fit as Green's partner. Even at his best, his play in his own end was never a strong suit. The fact that he's under contract at such a high cap hit for three more years just makes his value to the Caps that much worse. I doubt they'd claim him if he went through waivers.
Totally fair, totally valid, and I'm not gunna be the guy forcing Ballard down your throat. He needs a Hamhuis or Bouwmesster to be at his best, and while I'd choose Mike Green over either, he doesn't play the same role. I, and my other Canuckleheads, are replying to a post that labels him as a "failure" or as not being effective enough to play with that contract, on our team at least.

As for the KY comment just above this post, I don't think it's that bad, but for so many moving parts, there still seems to be a large discrepancy in terms of overall value, at least for Washington.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:06 PM
  #88
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I think you could cut Toronto right out of this deal, maybe.

If the assumption is that the Caps want:
  • A third line center to free up Brooks Laich
  • A couple of two-way wingers that can move the puck well and perform on a scoring line
  • A defenseman capable of playing above his current role

The Canucks might be able to make an interesting offer. How about this.

From Vancouver..
Manny Malhotra: almost certainly a bottom six player at this point in his career, Manny still has game even if he's not the player he was before his injury. Malhotra was nearly as productive last year (1.4 ES P per 60 minutes) playing decisively the most defensive role of any forward in the league as Bozak (1.6 ES P per 60) was playing between Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul. Malhotra has size, decent speed, unparalleled faceoff ability so you know he can still hold down a shutdown role.
Mason Raymond: you asked for him in the original prosposal so I guess he has value. In seriousness Raymond can play effective defense and contribute on the penalty kill even when he is not producing, and on the wing with a couple of big forwards he's proved he can produce well too. Obviously he's coming off a down year and is coming up on UFA so he's not a valuable asset but can certainly contribute in some respect.
Jannik Hansen or Chris Higgins: both gritty wingers who can moonlight on a scoring line in addition to playing excellent defense and being absolute puck hounds. To be honest I'm typing this out unsure if a good deal for the Canucks can be made, and giving up one of these to players is the reason for that.
Keith Ballard: after an atrocious first season as a Canuck, KB4 has steadily improved and looks once again capable of playing a top four role somewhere. He'll be stuck on the third pairing in Vancouver barring injuries but he finally looks like he's able to fit into a system rather than simply playing his own game.
Jordan Schroeder: obviously his size will always be a question mark but Schroeder has steadily developed and his game is headed in the right direction to eventually challenge for an NHL roster spot.

From Washington..
Marcus Johansson: a young center more than capable of filling the need in Vancouver for a versatile pivot who can fill in for Ryan Kesler in the short term while still good enough to stick with the team in a third line center role for the rest of the season - and enough upside to perhaps develop into a player that can replace Kesler or Sedin in the (very) long term.
Joel Ward: to be frank he has an ugly contract, but the Canucks don't have many forwards who have a knack for scoring goals and who can play in heavy traffic down low (even when the whistles are put away). His right handed shot is a plus for a team with just two (Kesler and Hansen) in the top nine.
Jeff Schultz: meh. Taking someone back for Ballard, frankly I'd rather keep Ballard but if it's necessary to include them to get a deal done I'd go for it.
Patrick Wey: 6'2 200+ lb right shooting defenseman having a respectable senior year at Boston College. Long odds on being an impact player at the NHL level but we'll take him.

Maybe a better deal for the Caps than the OP, they get Jordan Schroeder to make up for a slight downgrade (but better fit IMO) from Bozak to Malhotra and from Kulemin to Hansen/Higgins (which I don't think is a downgrade at all).

Schroeder is nothing to sneeze at as an asset and could replace what Marcus Johansson did for them this past season after this year when a job opens up (assuming Ribeiro moves on).

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:08 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
I think you could cut Toronto right out of this deal, maybe.

If the assumption is that the Caps want:
  • A third line center to free up Brooks Laich
  • A couple of two-way wingers that can move the puck well and perform on a scoring line
  • A defenseman capable of playing above his current role

The Canucks might be able to make an interesting offer. How about this.

From Vancouver..
Manny Malhotra: almost certainly a bottom six player at this point in his career, Manny still has game even if he's not the player he was before his injury. Malhotra was nearly as productive last year (1.4 ES P per 60 minutes) playing decisively the most defensive role of any forward in the league as Bozak (1.6 ES P per 60) was playing between Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul. Malhotra has size, decent speed, unparalleled faceoff ability so you know he can still hold down a shutdown role.
Mason Raymond: you asked for him in the original prosposal so I guess he has value. In seriousness Raymond can play effective defense and contribute on the penalty kill even when he is not producing, and on the wing with a couple of big forwards he's proved he can produce well too. Obviously he's coming off a down year and is coming up on UFA so he's not a valuable asset but can certainly contribute in some respect.
Jannik Hansen or Chris Higgins: both gritty wingers who can moonlight on a scoring line in addition to playing excellent defense and being absolute puck hounds. To be honest I'm typing this out unsure if a good deal for the Canucks can be made, and giving up one of these to players is the reason for that.
Keith Ballard: after an atrocious first season as a Canuck, KB4 has steadily improved and looks once again capable of playing a top four role somewhere. He'll be stuck on the third pairing in Vancouver barring injuries but he finally looks like he's able to fit into a system rather than simply playing his own game.
Jordan Schroeder: obviously his size will always be a question mark but Schroeder has steadily developed and his game is headed in the right direction to eventually challenge for an NHL roster spot.

From Washington..
Marcus Johansson: a young center more than capable of filling the need in Vancouver for a versatile pivot who can fill in for Ryan Kesler in the short term while still good enough to stick with the team in a third line center role for the rest of the season - and enough upside to perhaps develop into a player that can replace Kesler or Sedin in the (very) long term.
Joel Ward: to be frank he has an ugly contract, but the Canucks don't have many forwards who have a knack for scoring goals and who can play in heavy traffic down low (even when the whistles are put away). His right handed shot is a plus for a team with just two (Kesler and Hansen) in the top nine.
Jeff Schultz: meh. Taking someone back for Ballard, frankly I'd rather keep Ballard but if it's necessary to include them to get a deal done I'd go for it.
Patrick Wey: 6'2 200+ lb right shooting defenseman having a respectable senior year at Boston College. Long odds on being an impact player at the NHL level but we'll take him.

Maybe a better deal for the Caps than the OP, they get Jordan Schroeder to make up for a slight downgrade (but better fit IMO) from Bozak to Malhotra and from Kulemin to Hansen/Higgins (which I don't think is a downgrade at all).

Schroeder is nothing to sneeze at as an asset and could replace what Marcus Johansson did for them this past season after this year when a job opens up (assuming Ribeiro moves on).
Cut Wey, Hansen/Higgins, and add something else of value from us, and I'd be onboard. If it's Johanson too...nice.

Also, I think Ballard is not a player being requested by Washington, but is merely on the move for cap reasons.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:19 PM
  #90
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What would Perreault be cost for Vancouver? I imagine much less than Johansson, no?

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Old
11-12-2012, 05:18 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Bozak didn't have a dissapointing season, and CMac was affected by Kulemin.
Luongo-contract+decline+choker+skilled.
Johansson-Not Great upside, but good.
Alberts-6th/7th. Nice try.
Ward-Nothing. Exactly.

Kulemin=Johansson
Luongo>=Bozak+Blacker(Would rather switch Blacker to Ashton)
CMac>>Alberts+Ward
would rather switch blacker to ashton too.

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Old
11-12-2012, 05:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Any other scraps Toronto wants to get rid of?? Might as well give Jeff Finger away too
finger's not a leaf anymore, and didnt even play bad hockey when he was. it just didnt make sense paying him that money for what he did do.

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