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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

KHL teams want to keep Ovechkin, Kovalchuk rather than return 'em to NHL?

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:01 PM
  #151
Ernie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
This was discussed at length a few weeks ago in the following thread.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1268635

To summarize if a player did decide to break his NHL contract and if the KHL was willing to terminate the MOU then the player could almost certainly stay in Russia.

However the IIHF`s rules are pretty clear and that player would almost certainly be barred from playing in Sochi. The IIHF rewrote its Transfer Regulations after the Radulov incident and all its members including Russia, Canada and the US are bound by the new rules. The new IIHF Transfer Regulations specifically recognize NHL contracts and state that players who break them will be suspended from IIHF competitions. Also the IIHF Transfer Regs are not dependent on the MOU between the NHL and KHL, in other words terminating the MOU would not terminate or change the Transfer regs.

Basically the only way someone like Ovi could break his NHL contract and still play in the next Olympics would be if Washington agreed to it and I can`t see that happening. Then again, at this point, they're probably more in favor of stifling the growth of hockey in Europe. The more popular hockey is in Europe, the stronger the European leagues become, and more of a competitive threat they become.

The IIHF obviously wants the NHL to participate in their tournaments so I`m sure the NHL had some input on these new regs. There are links to the regs and other docs in the thread I posted above if you are interested in reading further.
Thanks for the info.

I still see the IIHF bending under pressure on this one. Sure, with a tier two player they'd no doubt enforce. But if Russians are denied their elite players, the IIHF would have legitimacy problems. It's not exactly a strong organization to start with.

Makes me wonder how much longer pro players will be involved in Olympic hockey. Too many competing interests. And NHL owners sure have the ability to be nearsighted.

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11-12-2012, 03:31 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
I still see the IIHF bending under pressure on this one. Sure, with a tier two player they'd no doubt enforce. But if Russians are denied their elite players, the IIHF would have legitimacy problems.
You forget NHL pressure. If you have to choose between two Russian stars participating and the whole NHL participating, what would you pick?

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:45 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Thanks for the info.

I still see the IIHF bending under pressure on this one. Sure, with a tier two player they'd no doubt enforce. But if Russians are denied their elite players, the IIHF would have legitimacy problems. It's not exactly a strong organization to start with.

Makes me wonder how much longer pro players will be involved in Olympic hockey. Too many competing interests. And NHL owners sure have the ability to be nearsighted.
I think if the Winter Olympics always happened in Canada or the United States which I realize is only a dream and will never happen, the NHL would then be more willing to let their players play for their countries.

I remember in August 2010 Gary Bettman said the 2002 and 2010 Olympics were a great success because they were held in Salt Lake City and Vancouver. Plus the NHL got the Gold Medal game they wanted which was Canada vs United States.

However Bettman then said the 1998 and 2006 Olympics weren't that great. My guess is because they were held over seas in Nagano and Turin, plus the Gold Medal games featured Russa vs Czech Republic (1998) and Sweden vs Finland. (2006)

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11-12-2012, 04:12 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
You forget NHL pressure. If you have to choose between two Russian stars participating and the whole NHL participating, what would you pick?
Well... NHL participation in the Olympics will be collectively bargained. I doubt the NHL could back out if it's in the new CBA.

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11-12-2012, 04:18 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I think if the Winter Olympics always happened in Canada or the United States which I realize is only a dream and will never happen, the NHL would then be more willing to let their players play for their countries.

I remember in August 2010 Gary Bettman said the 2002 and 2010 Olympics were a great success because they were held in Salt Lake City and Vancouver. Plus the NHL got the Gold Medal game they wanted which was Canada vs United States.

However Bettman then said the 1998 and 2006 Olympics weren't that great. My guess is because they were held over seas in Nagano and Turin, plus the Gold Medal games featured Russa vs Czech Republic (1998) and Sweden vs Finland. (2006)
Yes, it's not a shock that the 2002 and 2010 Olympics were huge, both because they were in North America and the fact that the gold medal game was US vs Canada.

Oh yeah, remember when the US lost?

But sadly, doesn't look like the Winter Olympic games will be held in the Americas until at least 2026, or later. Wikipedia tells me that all the cities considering bids for 2022 are in Europe.

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11-12-2012, 04:23 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Thanks for the info.

I still see the IIHF bending under pressure on this one. Sure, with a tier two player they'd no doubt enforce. But if Russians are denied their elite players, the IIHF would have legitimacy problems. It's not exactly a strong organization to start with.

Makes me wonder how much longer pro players will be involved in Olympic hockey. Too many competing interests. And NHL owners sure have the ability to be nearsighted.
You never know but I can't see the IIHF breaking their own rules and risking a run in with the NHL over participation when the player knew ahead of time what the regulations were. Also if I were Bettman and I thought this was a real threat I would make sure everything was clarified with the IIHF regarding this before the CBA was signed.

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11-12-2012, 04:32 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Also if I were Bettman and I thought this was a real threat I would make sure everything was clarified with the IIHF regarding this before the CBA was signed.
Haha, the more time goes on, the more "you'd think Bettman would" type things are proven to be wrong.

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Old
11-12-2012, 06:13 PM
  #158
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Only thing that I thought of when I saw this thread headline was 'of course they want to ****ing keep them.' This will amount to nothing, imo.

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11-12-2012, 08:12 PM
  #159
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Mod note: lets keep this thread on topic of Ovie, KHL, Olympics, IIHF and related issues.

There are other available threads on the forum for generic CBA discussions.


Last edited by mouser: 11-12-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 02:50 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
A labor stoppage is not breach of contract.

Also, for a suit, couldn't the owners ask for the sum of the remaining contract plus any loss of revenue they think would come from losing the player? Good luck paying that
Can it be written into a contract that an owner initiated lockout would give the player the option to end the contract?

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11-13-2012, 03:16 AM
  #161
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But isnt the NHLPA all about honoring NHL contracts? At least thats what they keep telling us the owners should do.
Maybe. Depends on the offer.

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11-13-2012, 04:57 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Since Russia is part of the IIHF they most certainly would interfere, just as they would if another country was involved.
But they shouldn't interfere with contracts from a league who is not a member of The IIHF.
If a player brake a contract with an IIHF member like the KHL to go to NHL, then they should interfere.

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11-13-2012, 05:11 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by fredrikstad View Post
But they shouldn't interfere with contracts from a league who is not a member of The IIHF.
If a player brake a contract with an IIHF member like the KHL to go to NHL, then they should interfere.
But leagues aren't members of the IIHF, national federation's are. Since it was already explained earlier, IIHF changed their rules which would mean the players would not be allowed to play.

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11-13-2012, 06:02 AM
  #164
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Yes, I'd imagine teams with superstars on them would want to keep them.

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ďItís embarrassing. Iím embarrassed to be here right now. Itís not even funny. And itís just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. Itís not how youíre going to win any games in this league." - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, April 8 2013
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11-13-2012, 08:00 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Well... NHL participation in the Olympics will be collectively bargained. I doubt the NHL could back out if it's in the new CBA.
I could see the NHL back out if the IIHF embraces people who violate NHL contracts. They could put a provision in the CBA.

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11-13-2012, 08:32 AM
  #166
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if player A signs a contract with the NHL for 5M$ for 3 years that says stay in NHL and the NHL later says, the contract will have to be renegotiated and re-signed with the new CBA.. then whats to stop the russians and the KHL from doing the same thing, thereby nullifying the KHL clause?

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11-13-2012, 09:19 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Can it be written into a contract that an owner initiated lockout would give the player the option to end the contract?
Perhaps, but why would an owner/GM ever sign this?

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11-13-2012, 10:03 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Can it be written into a contract that an owner initiated lockout would give the player the option to end the contract?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Perhaps, but why would an owner/GM ever sign this?
No. All contracts have to be approved by the NHL to take effect. Voidable terms in contracts aren't allowed*.

*This is under the expired CBA rules, but very unlikely the next CBA would change that.

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11-13-2012, 10:13 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
if player A signs a contract with the NHL for 5M$ for 3 years that says stay in NHL and the NHL later says, the contract will have to be renegotiated and re-signed with the new CBA.. then whats to stop the russians and the KHL from doing the same thing, thereby nullifying the KHL clause?
Not understanding what you're arguing here?

Player contracts aren't renegotiated and re-signed when a new CBA takes effect. The same existing player contacts remain fully in effect.

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11-13-2012, 11:05 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Good riddance on Ovechkin.

.
Really? One of the most dynamic players every to play the game and just a good riddance? lol

Some people are weird...

Why wouldn't you want Ovy in the NHL?

And why does he get bashed as part of this when it's the KHL saying it...

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11-14-2012, 12:12 AM
  #171
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I do find it interesting that outside of Kostitsyn (more of a just would like to spend the rest of the season comment anyway) that not many other guys have weighed in on this. You have the big two (Kovalchuk and Ovechkin) with lifetime contracts saying things. The Datsyuk and Semin and other Russians that would have to live up to this rather than say they are held hostage by the NHL after this aren't saying too much.

This is becoming a PR stunt for me. One that Kovy and Ovie can use to sell at home about how much they really care about the KHL and home. They know they cannot live up to it. Problem is they are about to find out when they return stateside it is really turning against them. For all the backslapping they get from KHL guys in high positions and the local media and probably even Fehr. It isn't doing much good for the fan-bases and NHL fans they will be contractually obligated to play in front of for the next decade.

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11-14-2012, 04:12 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
I get that you are upset about the lockout, we all are, but to unilaterally blame one side or the other is ridiculous, IMO. The players have chosen this course of action just as much as the owners. If these players who are playing overseas during the lockout are so upset maybe they should be back here in NA rallying players to get a deal done?
Maybe some of the biggest stars in the game just want to play hockey and make money. Whether that's overseas or the NHL may not matter that much to many of them. Ovy and Kovy can play a short schedule in their home country, play a funner style of hockey for them, and if the lockout goes on for 3 years, just return and have a huge contract even though they will be well past their peaks. I don't see why they would feel a lot of urgency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Also, this whole "owners got everything the wanted" is just not true, IMO. Yes they got the linkage and hard cap they wanted, but lost bigtime on UFA, RFA rights, high minimum contract, high floor, increasing % based on revenues, etc. It's a classic case of winning the battle, losing the war. And again, the OWNERS did not cancel the season...a labour strife cancelled the season, NEITHER side could agree to a deal last time, same as this time.
They may have compromised on some lesser issues, but essentially the owners can't figure out how the majority of teams can make money after getting cost certainty on terms favorable to them, despite revenues increasing substantially during that time. That indicates that the owners have a lot of work to do in order to rectify that situation, but rather than figure that out amongst themselves, it seems like they want to penalize the players for the owners' collective incompetence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
We are all frusterated, but picking one side or the other and putting all blame on them is just short sighted, IMO. Dramatics about NHL being marginalized to sports where the players work "real" jobs and their sports jobs are just weekends and free time (ie Lacrosse) is over the top exaggeration, we are still talking a 3.3 BILLION a year sport. Perhaps the NHL does lose some players in coming years to the KHL, like you said, more money, coming home, a more familiar style of play, etc, but I certainly doubt occasional labour problems with the option of playing in the league you would be going to anyways makes a huge difference. And it WON'T be guys like Ovechkin or Kovalchuk who are locked into contracts for a long long time...
I should have specified "outside Canada", because another lost season relegates the league to its marginal status of decades past in the U.S. Overseas countries have their own pro leagues. Sure, the hardcore fans will mostly return, but the casual fans will leave in droves, and basically a statement by the NHL that "we don't want any new fans." At this point, it looks like the "garage league" that Lemieux termed it, except most of the owners have really big, fancy garages... that will mostly be empty until they get a deal done. This isn't 2005, disposable income is scarce for most people, so why would they spend it on an league that may cancel its second season in less than a decade and continually shoots itself in the foot? This is a league whose more recent history is not consistently enforcing the rules (and so often creating a bland product where stars have trouble excelling), doesn't protect its stars, and can't even bother maintaining the continuity of the league. It's already a sport that is difficult to understand for many people, with players whose names are often difficult to pronounce, which is best known among the common man for "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out." How much more damage do you think it can sustain before the NHL becomes almost completely marginalized outside Canada?

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11-14-2012, 06:26 PM
  #173
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a note of reality now. ovechkin's significant other is a tennis player. so far as i know all russian tennis players live in florida. when i lived in sarasota, fl i knew a couple. i doubt seriously that ovechkin really wants to be in russia all the time while his girl is in the usa all the time.

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11-15-2012, 08:49 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
a note of reality now. ovechkin's significant other is a tennis player. so far as i know all russian tennis players live in florida. when i lived in sarasota, fl i knew a couple. i doubt seriously that ovechkin really wants to be in russia all the time while his girl is in the usa all the time.
She's Maria Kirilenko, I believe she trains in Moscow, not Florida.

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11-15-2012, 11:55 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by NewOilRising View Post
Guess they've never heard of contracts. I hope the teams sue them for everything if they try it.
this is an ignorant statement in that the owners first broke the "contracts"

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