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Sakic/Crosby/Stamkos vs Jagr/Forsberg/OV

View Poll Results: Which Trio
Sakic/Crosby/Stamkos 102 56.35%
Jagr/Forsberg/OV 75 41.44%
Even 4 2.21%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:04 PM
  #26
BeastoftheEast85
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If this is peak Forsberg, Jagr, and OV its them ainec. Ovechkin regularly beat out Crosby for the Hart trophy. Forsberg when healthy was considered to be around the same level Sakic. Then its Jagr who is who is the best forward of the expansion era outside Gretzky and Lemieux vs Stamkos.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:09 PM
  #27
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Option 1. Trying to imagine Crosby passing to Stamkos. Then having Sakic in the mix...

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:14 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
At their peak?
Jagr
Crosby
Ov
Sakic
Forsberg
Stamkos

Option 2
What tells you Stamkos or Crosby peaked ? Obviously both have had great seasons, but they still have to room to get better and haven't shown any significant signs of decrease in their game. Maybe Crosby will never stay healthy again and Stamkos probably won't score 60 ever again, but I think it still early in their career to say they peaked

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:31 PM
  #29
Christian Litscher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
What tells you Stamkos or Crosby peaked ? Obviously both have had great seasons, but they still have to room to get better and haven't shown any significant signs of decrease in their game. Maybe Crosby will never stay healthy again and Stamkos probably won't score 60 ever again, but I think it still early in their career to say they peaked
I didn't say they have peaked but I also can't see the future either. So I based it on what they've done so far.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:37 PM
  #30
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Jagr, Forsberg and Ovechkin.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:45 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastoftheEast85 View Post
If this is peak Forsberg, Jagr, and OV its them ainec. Ovechkin regularly beat out Crosby for the Hart trophy. Forsberg when healthy was considered to be around the same level Sakic. Then its Jagr who is who is the best forward of the expansion era outside Gretzky and Lemieux vs Stamkos.
He only won the trophy once, against a healthy Crosby. Crosby was injured, the year before that. That's not exactly "regularly". And Crosby's peak is better than OV's.

But I always felt that a healthy Forsberg was actually BETTER than Sakic.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:07 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
He only won the trophy once, against a healthy Crosby. Crosby was injured, the year before that. That's not exactly "regularly". And Crosby's peak is better than OV's.

But I always felt that a healthy Forsberg was actually BETTER than Sakic.
Ovechkin has three Lindsays to Crosby's one.

You can claim "But Crosby in 41 game!!!" all you want. I bet you can go find a 41-game stretch in Ovechkin's best years that is comparable. Half a season is just that; half a season. Unless you're Mario Lemieux and play 60 games, but still win the Ross by more than ten points, half a season doesn't count as better than a full season.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:45 PM
  #33
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Ovechkin has three Lindsays to Crosby's one.

You can claim "But Crosby in 41 game!!!" all you want. I bet you can go find a 41-game stretch in Ovechkin's best years that is comparable. Half a season is just that; half a season. Unless you're Mario Lemieux and play 60 games, but still win the Ross by more than ten points, half a season doesn't count as better than a full season.
Since this topic also includes Jagr, Jagr is the other player that missed 19 games or more in his career and won the Art Ross (he won the Art Ross in 1999-00 despite playing in only 63 games). BTW that same season Jagr before his injury scored 71 Pts in 39 games ( a better half season stretch that Crosby).

Jagr has 1 Hart, 3 Pearsons, 5 Art Ross trophies, 2 Stanley Cups.

Forsberg has 1 Hart, 1 Art Ross and 2 Cups.

Ovechkin has 2 Harts, 3 Pearsons, 1 Art Ross but no Cups.

Those 3 players on trophy count alone combined take the prize.

Jagr is the best player outside of Lemieux of the last 15 years.

Ovechkin has been the best since post-lockout and Forsberg was the best two-way player of the bunch.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:47 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Crosby= Best playmaker in then NHL
Stamkos= Best goal scorer in the NHL
Sakic= One of the game's all time greats

Trio= Amazingly successful
But we're taking them at their prime right?

Jagr was better then Crosby in his prime, as was the 3rd most dominant forward in the last 30 years.

Ovechkin peak was higher then Stamkos's, and is the best LW' scorer in the history of the NHL.

Forsberg as much as I hate to admit it is slightly better then Sakic at his peak.

That being said I take, Sakic,Crosby,Stamkos because it's close and I just like them better.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:51 PM
  #35
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I expected this to be much closer, if not Jagr and co. winning outright.

Seems like no matter which way you cut it, Jagr tips the scales.

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Old
11-12-2012, 05:40 PM
  #36
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
But we're taking them at their prime right?

Jagr was better then Crosby in his prime, as was the 3rd most dominant forward in the last 30 years.

Ovechkin peak was higher then Stamkos's, and is the best LW' scorer in the history of the NHL.

Forsberg as much as I hate to admit it is slightly better then Sakic at his peak.

That being said I take, Sakic,Crosby,Stamkos because it's close and I just like them better.
Heard of a player named Bobby Hull?

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Old
11-12-2012, 06:33 PM
  #37
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It's rare that I think poll results of 2-1 should be reversed, but this is one of them.

I wonder what the results would be if the groups switched countries and it was Jaeger, Owens, and Forester from Canada and Sakicstrom, Crosberg and Stamkov from overseas?

This may some up the logic behind some votes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
But we're taking them at their prime right?

Jagr was better then Crosby in his prime, as was the 3rd most dominant forward in the last 30 years.

Ovechkin peak was higher then Stamkos's, and is the best LW' scorer in the history of the NHL.

Forsberg as much as I hate to admit it is slightly better then Sakic at his peak.

That being said I take, Sakic,Crosby,Stamkos because it's close and I just like them better.

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Old
11-12-2012, 06:46 PM
  #38
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All at their best, I rank them like this:

Jagr
Ovechkin
Crosby
Sakic
Forsberg
Stamkos

Forsberg with peak OV and Jagr would be just unfair, even with Sakic and Crosby on the other team.

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:21 PM
  #39
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
At their peak?
Jagr
Crosby
Ov
Sakic
Forsberg
Stamkos

Option 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Jagr > Crosby > Sakic > Forsberg > Ovechkin = Stamkos

IMO. This is tough...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bure All Day View Post
peak Ovi > peak foppa
I'm gonna go with the best player on that list at his peak.

Forsberg; followed by second best: Jagr.

Option 2, easily.

Option 2 would out muscle and destroy option 1.

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:43 PM
  #40
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Jagr > Forsberg > Crosby > Sakic > Ovechkin > Stamkos

If you just go by peak it is easily option 2.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:53 PM
  #41
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xxx - Crosby - Stamkos
xxx - Sakic - xxx
or
Jagr - Forsberg - Ovechkin



Gotta go with team Stamkos

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Old
11-12-2012, 09:18 PM
  #42
livewell68
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I'm gonna go with the best player on that list at his peak.

Forsberg; followed by second best: Jagr.

Option 2, easily.

Option 2 would out muscle and destroy option 1.
Eeveryone is entitled to their opinion but how does one claim that Forsberg was better than Jagr at their peaks?

Jagr and Forsberg's peaks were coincidental and in a head-to-head match-up outside of Jagr's Washington years, Jagr was easily the better player.

In 1994-95 Jagr was easily the better player.

In 1995-96 Jagr was easily the better player.

In 1996-97 Jagr was the better player.

In 1997-98 Jagr was easily the better player.

In 1998-99 Jagr dominated the field like very few before him and no one after him (he won the Art Ross by 20 Pts including out-assisting Forsberg by 16 assists).

In 1999-00 Jagr was easily the better player.

In 2000-01 Jagr was easily the better player.

In 2001-02 Jagr finished 5th in scoring (in just 69 games) while Forsberg didn't even play.

In 2002-03 it is Forsberg who was easily the better player.

In 2003-04 Forsberg was the better player.

In 2004-05 dominates both the Czech league and the RSL/KHL.

In 2005-06 Jagr was easily the better player.

In 2006-07 Jagr was the better player.

In 2007-08 given the amount of games Forsberg played, Jagr was also the better player (Jagr also had a dominant playoff run).

Of a total 13 seasons that Jagr and Forsberg played head-to-head, Jagr was the better player (sometimes quite easily) in 11 of those 13 seasons.

So then how does Forsberg end up having the better peak?

If people just look at PPG (it's basically what they do when they look at Crosby and Forsberg) their PPG is going to be higher than Jagr's because Jagr has played so many more games in his career. I'm willing to bet that had Forsberg played another 400 games or so, his PPG would be far less than Jagr's. In fact up until Jagr came back to the NHL after playing in Russia for 3 years, Jagr's PPG was 1.26 to Forsberg's 1.25.

Between 1994 and 2001 Jagr's PPG was over 1.50 PPG. Now that's any impressive peak when you compare that to Forsberg considering Forsberg topped off at 1.41 PPG (only twice in a full season and once in less than 40 games) while Jagr had 6 seasons of playing at a PPG of 1.50 or better 4 of which resulted in Art Ross trophies and the other 2 seasons he finished 2nd in scoring.

Jagr had the best peak, prime and career (so far) of the entire bunch.

Peak wise for me it's;

1. Jagr quite easily
2. Forsberg
3. Ovechkin
4. Sakic
5. Crosby
6. Stamkos

You have to go with Jagr, Forsberg and Ovechkin. Those 3 combined have 7 Art Ross trophies, 6 Pearsons, 4 Hart trophies and 4 Cups.


Last edited by livewell68: 11-12-2012 at 09:36 PM.
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Old
11-12-2012, 09:49 PM
  #43
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Jagr/Foppa/OV

Not necessarily because they are better, but with their playstyle they would be domnant. All extremely powerful players, Jagr had some of the best puck protection and control i've ever seen, Foppa was a tank that could run through people and still had crazy good vision for passing, OV is a tank that runs through people and has a crazy good shot arsenal.

Its kinda like Sakic/Crosby/Stammer have better vision and playmaking, but the wingers have a huge physical asset in their favor.

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Old
11-12-2012, 09:53 PM
  #44
livewell68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pravi83Oil View Post
Jagr/Foppa/OV

Not necessarily because they are better, but with their playstyle they would be domnant. All extremely powerful players, Jagr had some of the best puck protection and control i've ever seen, Foppa was a tank that could run through people and still had crazy good vision for passing, OV is a tank that runs through people and has a crazy good shot arsenal.

Its kinda like Sakic/Crosby/Stammer have better vision and playmaking, but the wingers have a huge physical asset in their favor.
Forsberg's and Jagr's vision were equal if not better than Crosby's in their primes. BTW Forsberg was a natural center although he did play some Wing sometimes.

Jagr was the better overall player of the bunch.

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Old
11-13-2012, 01:01 AM
  #45
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Crosby Stamkos Sakic

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:35 AM
  #46
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Heard of a player named Bobby Hull?
I think he meant that Ovechkin is the highest scoring LW. Which he is with 65 goals.

Bobby was down right better tough.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:42 AM
  #47
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How is option 1 winning by so much?

IMO its very close, but if you go by prime/peak, it's option 2.


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Old
11-13-2012, 02:50 AM
  #48
TAnnala
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I get kind of funny feeling about this poll.

I honestly feel that CYM has a point. There is some Canadian bias around here.

But given the fact that these two guys played the most games (this far) i would probably rank them head-2-head against each other. Sakic - Jagr

Now which one do you think was the better player? Jagr or Sakic. Personally i would be more than happy if i would have either one in my team but IF i would be given a choice i would go with Jagr. He has so dominant offensive peak that it can't be ignored. So this one goes to Jagr/Forsberg/OV

0-1

I would probably compare Forsberg to Crosby since they are more similar than Ovechkin/Crosby and Forsberg/Stamkos.

So, Forsberg against Crosby. I think Crosby is the better player of the two. He has had some problems with health. So did Forsberg. Their career/peak value is close but a slight edge to Crosby. Also Crosby has time to improve so i would rather have him. The difference is not as big a sit was with Jagr/Sakic but i would take Crosby.

1-1

Stamkos/Ovechkin.

This one is rather easy to me. Ovechkin has had the better peak with a clear margin. Talking about goalscorers, i think Ovechkin is the best since lockout.

1-2

I would rather have the Jagr/Forsberg/OV group. Frankly, can't really see how someone would justify otherwise.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:57 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I get kind of funny feeling about this poll.

I honestly feel that CYM has a point. There is some Canadian bias around here.

But given the fact that these two guys played the most games (this far) i would probably rank them head-2-head against each other. Sakic - Jagr

Now which one do you think was the better player? Jagr or Sakic. Personally i would be more than happy if i would have either one in my team but IF i would be given a choice i would go with Jagr. He has so dominant offensive peak that it can't be ignored. So this one goes to Jagr/Forsberg/OV

0-1

I would probably compare Forsberg to Crosby since they are more similar than Ovechkin/Crosby and Forsberg/Stamkos.

So, Forsberg against Crosby. I think Crosby is the better player of the two. He has had some problems with health. So did Forsberg. Their career/peak value is close but a slight edge to Crosby. Also Crosby has time to improve so i would rather have him. The difference is not as big a sit was with Jagr/Sakic but i would take Crosby.

1-1

Stamkos/Ovechkin.

This one is rather easy to me. Ovechkin has had the better peak with a clear margin. Talking about goalscorers, i think Ovechkin is the best since lockout.

1-2

I would rather have the Jagr/Forsberg/OV group. Frankly, can't really see how someone would justify otherwise.
Well put.

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:49 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I'm gonna go with the best player on that list at his peak.

Forsberg; followed by second best: Jagr.

Option 2, easily.

Option 2 would out muscle and destroy option 1.
Say what you want, he never got over 30 goals in his entire career... Not saying goals are everything, but 65 goals is just out of that league

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