I really Like Gaudreau, but I would say Bartschi has more upside...no?
It's definitely debatable, personally I think Gaudreau has higher upside, but a much lower downside.
With Baertschi if everything goes right he could be an all-star winger and he is probably talented enough to be a top 6 forward if he doesn't reach his potential.
With Gaudreau I think if everything goes right he could have a hall of fame career, but if he doesn't reach his potential he probably won't even be in the NHL.
I think Baertschi is most assuredly the better prospect because he is all but guaranteed to be something, where is with Gaudreau nothing is guaranteed at all.
I remember when Corey Locke destroyed Eric Staal in terms of points in the OHL. 1 was a first round, 2nd overall pick. Currently an NHL captain, stanley cup winner and a franchise centre. The other sucks.
I'm not saying Gaudreau will be like that. I'm just saying, hype the kid, but don't turn around and say not much was expected of him if he fails.
I remember when Corey Locke destroyed Eric Staal in terms of points in the OHL. 1 was a first round, 2nd overall pick. Currently an NHL captain, stanley cup winner and a franchise centre. The other sucks.
I'm not saying Gaudreau will be like that. I'm just saying, hype the kid, but don't turn around and say not much was expected of him if he fails.
Johnny Gaudreau has 12 points in 9 games this season for BC. 1st in goals in the NCAA, 5 GWG and an assist on another GW. Kid is single handily willing his way into the top prospects in the world discussion.
This is a ridiculous statement. There are guys in his draft year that had pretty good rookie seasons in the NHL and other still ahead of him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wally31
He put up almost identical numbers to Kreider last year...
Chris Kreider 44: 23G - 22A - 45pts
Johnny Gaudreau 44: 21G - 23A - 44pts
If Gaudreau had 20 of Kreiders weight and 2 inches then it would mean alot more going forward but he doesn't.
Even small superstars like Mart st. Louis are thick and ahve what 40lbs on Gaudreau. Has he even hit 160 lbs yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOCKEY_GURU
I really Like Gaudreau, but I would say Bartschi has more upside...no?
Well PPG guy in the AHL and scored 3 goals in 5 NHL games should be considered the better prospect IMO.
The only numbers Flame fans should worry about is his weight and strength and that they increase by quite a bit.
Gaudreau is probably around 150 lbs. St. Louis, who I'd say is very similar in size, is 175. That's not a 40 lbs difference, and St. Louis is one of the more well built guys his size.
He has lots of time to put on weight, and he's been doing that.
And wouldn't Gaudreau scoring at the same pace as Kreider at his size make his achievements even more impressive?
This is a ridiculous statement. There are guys in his draft year that had pretty good rookie seasons in the NHL and other still ahead of him.
Not at all. If he was 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier playing at the same level he is at BC, he'd be one of the most talked about prospects in the world. His freshman season was as good as Kreider's junior season, and we all remember how much Kreider was talked about. His coming out party will be at the WJC.
Gaudreau is probably around 150 lbs. St. Louis, who I'd say is very similar in size, is 175. That's not a 40 lbs difference, and St. Louis is one of the more well built guys his size.
Looked it up he started the season at BC at 153 lbs, still the number of small guys with great skillsets even making the NHL a career is small and star status even smaller.
Quote:
He has lots of time to put on weight, and he's been doing that.
11 lbs is a good start but he still needs another 20 and even then he is still a longshot.
Quote:
And wouldn't Gaudreau scoring at the same pace as Kreider at his size make his achievements even more impressive?
Not really big guys take longer and we are talking about making the NHL here, size isn't as great of an issue in College as it is in the pro ranks or heck even Major Jr where there is a longer more NHL like shcedule.
Gaudreau is probably around 150 lbs. St. Louis, who I'd say is very similar in size, is 175. That's not a 40 lbs difference, and St. Louis is one of the more well built guys his size.
He has lots of time to put on weight, and he's been doing that.
And wouldn't Gaudreau scoring at the same pace as Kreider at his size make his achievements even more impressive?
No, small players tend to score a lot more at lower levels, but the majority struggle when they play against NHL competition. Look at most junior and college leading scorers and you'll see that a lot of them are undersized.
No, small players tend to score a lot more at lower levels, but the majority struggle when they play against NHL competition. Look at most junior and college leading scorers and you'll see that a lot of them are undersized.
Not at all. If he was 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier playing at the same level he is at BC, he'd be one of the most talked about prospects in the world. His freshman season was as good as Kreider's junior season, and we all remember how much Kreider was talked about. His coming out party will be at the WJC.
But he isn't, he is incredibly small and slight.
Even Kreider only saw his stock really sky rocket with his 18 game performance in the NHL playoffs.
Going into the year the 6'3" 220 lb speedster was ranked around 20th.
Gaudreau would need a Forsberg type of WJC performance to get into the top 20 IMO.
Even with his rookie season last year at BC and the scouts seeing his skill set his size and weight still keep him out of most top 100 lists never mind "one of the top prospects in the world discussion."
If you follow hockey at all at the CHL and American college level you would know this already. click on enough teams scoring lists and you will see for yourself it's really easy to do.
most of the time all it takes is time and a little dedication
he's going the college route so has tons of time
well some guys are just really small and never grow.
The reality is that size and strength matters at the NHL level and there are 100's of really small skilled players that come onto the prospect scene and so few of them ever turn into stars.
Size and reality is against him making a huge impact if at all in the NHL.
If you follow hockey at all at the CHL and American college level you would know this already. click on enough teams scoring lists and you will see for yourself it's really easy to do.
This is simply an awful argument. Judging by your posts, I follow leagues outside the NHL far more than you do. If somebody is going to make a claim, they better spend the time finding facts to back up their argument. Don't always expect me to do it.
Are there a number of small, sub 5'9" players amongst the leading scorers in the CHL/NCAA? Yeah, there are. But you need to look deeper than that.
Brendan Shinnimin, ~5'9", led the WHL is scoring last season. Should we stop there, or should we also note that he was an overager and played on a line with another overager on the highest scoring line in the CHL?
Leading scorer in the the Q was 5'7", but again... overager. Gourde, Trudeau... all overagers.
If you can't tell the difference between Cason Hohmann and Johnny Gaudreau, I don't even know why I'm arguing. You haven't even seen them play.
This is simply an awful argument. Judging by your posts, I follow leagues outside the NHL far more than you do. If somebody is going to make a claim, they better spend the time finding facts to back up their argument. Don't always expect me to do it.
Are there a number of small, sub 5'9" players amongst the leading scorers in the CHL/NCAA? Yeah, there are. But you need to look deeper than that.
Brendan Shinnimin, ~5'9", led the WHL is scoring last season. Should we stop there, or should we also note that he was an overager and played on a line with another overager on the highest scoring line in the CHL?
Leading scorer in the the Q was 5'7", but again... overager. Gourde, Trudeau... all overagers.
If you can't tell the difference between Cason Hohmann and Johnny Gaudreau, I don't even know why I'm arguing. You haven't even seen them play.
Look a little more closely and most of those small guys were scoring at a decent clip (for their age bracket) earlier in their careers.
Smaller players don't make the best shut down defensive players or body checkers or enforcers for the most part they get by on their offensive skill, it's really not that hard of a concept.
Look a little more closely and most of those small guys were scoring at a decent clip (for their age bracket) earlier in their careers.
Smaller players don't make the best shut down defensive players or body checkers or enforcers for the most part they get by on their offensive skill, it's really not that hard of a concept.
If your argument is that small players, certainly ones at Gaudreau's size, are at a disadvantage, then that is obvious. But small players don't have some sort of advantage in amateur leagues that allows them to be among the top scorers.
The prediction that he would be considered among the best prospects in the world is obviously a little more than optimistic, as the likelihood that he fails to reach his potential is still very high. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gaudreau crack HF's top 50 list next season, and I've already seen him in a few top 100 lists.
If people are looking at players like St. Louis, Briere, and are looking for prospects that fit their game, their size, their skill, I think Gaudreau is the first prospect that comes to mind. That's hardly a guarantee, but I think he's the most likely to reach that type of potential out of any of the crop of undersized NHL prospects right now.
This is simply an awful argument. Judging by your posts, I follow leagues outside the NHL far more than you do. If somebody is going to make a claim, they better spend the time finding facts to back up their argument. Don't always expect me to do it.
Are there a number of small, sub 5'9" players amongst the leading scorers in the CHL/NCAA? Yeah, there are. But you need to look deeper than that.
Brendan Shinnimin, ~5'9", led the WHL is scoring last season. Should we stop there, or should we also note that he was an overager and played on a line with another overager on the highest scoring line in the CHL?
Leading scorer in the the Q was 5'7", but again... overager. Gourde, Trudeau... all overagers.
If you can't tell the difference between Cason Hohmann and Johnny Gaudreau, I don't even know why I'm arguing. You haven't even seen them play.
Damn dude, take the edge off. Gaudreau is a damn good prospect but the point stands there have been a lot of tiny CHL/NCAA scorers fail in the NHL. Your the one asking "Back this claim up with facts." when it's not like he pulled that out of his ass, lots of 5'8" mega scorers in juniors and college.
If your argument is that small players, certainly ones at Gaudreau's size, are at a disadvantage, then that is obvious. But small players don't have some sort of advantage in amateur leagues that allows them to be among the top scorers.
The prediction that he would be considered among the best prospects in the world is obviously a little more than optimistic, as the likelihood that he fails to reach his potential is still very high. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gaudreau crack HF's top 50 list next season, and I've already seen him in a few top 100 lists.
If people are looking at players like St. Louis, Briere, and are looking for prospects that fit their game, their size, their skill, I think Gaudreau is the first prospect that comes to mind. That's hardly a guarantee, but I think he's the most likely to reach that type of potential out of any of the crop of undersized NHL prospects right now.
I would be very surprised as the 13 draft guys are coming online as well with at least 15 guys automatically making the top 100(and at least 6 or 7 in top 50) IMO.
I would be very surprised as the 13 draft guys are coming online as well with at least 15 guys automatically making the top 100(and at least 6 or 7 in top 50) IMO.
Well, indeed if the season is lost and the players that were expected to graduate don't graduate, then it becomes more than unlikely.
