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Old
11-12-2012, 01:38 PM
  #201
IrishPaulie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
I think Hamilton is a great prospect and will have a nice NHL career but does anyone really think if Yakupov and Dougie were eligible in the same draft year that Hamilton would've gone first?

I say zero chance what so ever.
No but you could make the argument that Dougie would have went second over all instead of Murray as the top defensemen of that draft.

Bottom line is one is the best wing prospect in the world (possible the best prospect overall) and the other is the best defensive prospect in the world.

Boston still needs Dougie far more than Yak though.

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:25 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
No thanks.

Seguin is progressing just fine, and at this point I think he's a step ahead of Hall for now.

Hamilton as previously mentioned is needed to be Bostons future stud anchor on D. While Yakupov would be exciting, Boston has a good stable of scoring wingers as of now (Marchand Lucic Horton). Bostons need is on defense.

*If Seguin proves he can take over #1 center duties this season, I'd be curious to look into this deal below:

To EDM:
Malcom Subban
David Krejci

To BOS:
Nail Yakupov
MPS
Other way around Hall is a step ahead of Seguin as Tyler has 89 points in 155 games on a far better Bruins team which has been one of the best teams in the league the past couple years and Taylor Hall playing on the worst team in the league the last couple years has put up 95 points in 126 games, but that is beside the point that Bruins Brass and fans want Dougie and Tyler and Oil fans Want to keep Hallsy and Nail.... Proposals like these are pointless in my opinion because these Trades will never happen way to much at stake there young and they all have long and great careers ahead.

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:56 PM
  #203
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Other way around Hall is a step ahead of Seguin as Tyler has 89 points in 155 games on a far better Bruins team which has been one of the best teams in the league the past couple years and Taylor Hall playing on the worst team in the league the last couple years has put up 95 points in 126 games, but that is beside the point that Bruins Brass and fans want Dougie and Tyler and Oil fans Want to keep Hallsy and Nail.... Proposals like these are pointless in my opinion because these Trades will never happen way to much at stake there young and they all have long and great careers ahead.
Ok splitting hairs here.

One could argue that being a top line forward on a last place team would benefit one stat-wise as he is given tons of un-earned ice time & PP time,, whereas a young player on a top team would have to earn his ice time, play on a 3rd line, & get lil PP time eventually making it onto the 2nd unit.

I did not speak poorly of Hall, I just think Seguin is a bit more polished at this point in their careers.

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:20 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Other way around Hall is a step ahead of Seguin as Tyler has 89 points in 155 games on a far better Bruins team which has been one of the best teams in the league the past couple years and Taylor Hall playing on the worst team in the league the last couple years has put up 95 points in 126 games, but that is beside the point that Bruins Brass and fans want Dougie and Tyler and Oil fans Want to keep Hallsy and Nail.... Proposals like these are pointless in my opinion because these Trades will never happen way to much at stake there young and they all have long and great careers ahead.
Meanwhile Hall was spoon-fed ice and PP time while Seguin got very little of the former and none of the latter. Seguin is also more developed defensively, and I'm not sure why all of you say that playing less games is an advantage, I wasn't aware that being injury prone was a good thing.

Not trying to say he's better, I say they're neck and neck, but that "best/worst team in the league" thing is getting old. Hall would have gotten just as many points and as much ice time, if not less, as Seguin if he was drafted by us.

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:04 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
This trade makes perfect sense for the Oilers.I don't understand why you don't think it would.
maybe it does something for Oilers, but it does nothing for Boston.

Big pass.

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:07 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
I think Hamilton is a great prospect and will have a nice NHL career but does anyone really think if Yakupov and Dougie were eligible in the same draft year that Hamilton would've gone first?

I say zero chance what so ever.
I think it depends on the team.

As I said before... Boston says no to a Yak for Hamilton 1 for 1... so if Boston went 1st overall and Dougie was there... they may have taken him.

Hard to tell due to hypotheticals.

Either way, zero chance Hamilton is being moved even if it's Nail Yakupov being offered... thanks, but no thanks, we will keep the guy who fills our most immeadiate need.

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:20 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
I think it depends on the team.

As I said before... Boston says no to a Yak for Hamilton 1 for 1... so if Boston went 1st overall and Dougie was there... they may have taken him.

Hard to tell due to hypotheticals.

Either way, zero chance Hamilton is being moved even if it's Nail Yakupov being offered... thanks, but no thanks, we will keep the guy who fills our most immeadiate need.
Boston is a team that has been managed very well of late. I highly doubt they would have passed up on the unanimous BPA to fill a need. That's what terribly run franchises do.

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:27 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
Boston is a team that has been managed very well of late. I highly doubt they would have passed up on the unanimous BPA to fill a need. That's what terribly run franchises do.
Who knows if it would have been unaimous if Hamilton was eligible after the year he had??... it's all hypotheticals, impossible to tell. You're just assuming Yakupov would be unanimous... but fact is no defenseman in that draft had a year even close to the year Hamilton had.

Also if you're going by Boston's brain trust, they don't draft Russians. Since Chia has taken over I think they have only drafted 2 to date.

Bottom line... if Edmonton offered Yak for Hamilton right now... Boston politely declines and that's all that matters here... rest is splitting hairs.

That doesn't mean Dougie will be better than Yakupov or holds more value... just that Dougie is more important to Boston than Yakupov could be.

Let's just move on.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:14 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Who knows if it would have been unaimous if Hamilton was eligible after the year he had??... it's all hypotheticals, impossible to tell. You're just assuming Yakupov would be unanimous... but fact is no defenseman in that draft had a year even close to the year Hamilton had.

Also if you're going by Boston's brain trust, they don't draft Russians. Since Chia has taken over I think they have only drafted 2 to date.

Bottom line... if Edmonton offered Yak for Hamilton right now... Boston politely declines and that's all that matters here... rest is splitting hairs.

That doesn't mean Dougie will be better than Yakupov or holds more value... just that Dougie is more important to Boston than Yakupov could be.

Let's just move on.
Yea, I personally think Hamilton could have contended for #2 with Murray.

As for not drafting Russians, there aren't that many Russians in the league anyways. The Oilers hadn't drafted Russians either but they had to with Nail as the BPA.

Well we can agree that both teams say no. Boston because of positional needs and Edmonton because of value.

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:25 AM
  #210
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I think Hamilton (like Seguin) will benefit from being drafted by Boston, as Seguin has been mentored by Bergeron (whom has tremendous work ethic), Hamilton will surely be watching Chara closely, and that will only make him a better player.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:02 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dellstrom View Post
Meanwhile Hall was spoon-fed ice and PP time while Seguin got very little of the former and none of the latter. Seguin is also more developed defensively, and I'm not sure why all of you say that playing less games is an advantage, I wasn't aware that being injury prone was a good thing.

Not trying to say he's better, I say they're neck and neck, but that "best/worst team in the league" thing is getting old. Hall would have gotten just as many points and as much ice time, if not less, as Seguin if he was drafted by us.
Hall was never spoon feed, he earn his ice time. As for Seguin he was a healthy scratch a number of times his rookie year and a lot of it had to do with his maturity.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:46 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Hall was never spoon feed, he earn his ice time. As for Seguin he was a healthy scratch a number of times his rookie year and a lot of it had to do with his maturity.
Seguin was a healthy scratch for his maturity one time when he was late to a team meeting and he never did it again. ONE TIME, that is all.

Hall didn't have to play defensively responsible or play on the 4th line or not at all. Hall earned his ice time because he was on the worst team in the entire league. If Seguin was in that situation don't you think he would have had gotten more ice time?

That has nothing to do with anything other than the situation their teams were in, both are fine players and both teams are happy to have them.

I don't know why people have to try to belittle one of these players when they like the other one, they are both great players.

Shame on anyone who tries to cut down Hall or Seguin to raise up the other one.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:34 AM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Other way around Hall is a step ahead of Seguin as Tyler has 89 points in 155 games on a far better Bruins team which has been one of the best teams in the league the past couple years and Taylor Hall playing on the worst team in the league the last couple years has put up 95 points in 126 games
Points per game at this stage is irrelevant because one sees more ice time than the other.

Last year Seguin had one point per 20:28 minutes spent on the ice. Hall had one point per 20:58. In other words, Seguin was scoring at a higher rate.

PP TOI per game was 2:17 for Seguin, 3:03 for Hall.

Seguin is younger than Hall.

Oops, suddenly the painting tells a different story

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:20 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Sevren View Post
Points per game at this stage is irrelevant because one sees more ice time than the other.

Last year Seguin had one point per 20:28 minutes spent on the ice. Hall had one point per 20:58. In other words, Seguin was scoring at a higher rate.

PP TOI per game was 2:17 for Seguin, 3:03 for Hall.

Seguin is younger than Hall.

Oops, suddenly the painting tells a different story
Boston scored 269 goals, Oilers 212. Oops.

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Old
11-13-2012, 01:40 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by CSimpson18 View Post
Boston scored 269 goals, Oilers 212. Oops.
Nothing to do with the two of them Edmonton does not have an Elite second line and good third line, and Boston had a lot of injuries last year so were not even as deep as they should have been.

Because Boston is a deep team it is a knock on Seguin, they both draw the other teams top pairings when there on the ice.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:14 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Boston
Taylor Hall
Nail Yakupov



To Edmonton
Dougie Hamilton
Tyler Seguin
To Toronto:
Hall
Yakupov

To Edmonton:
Kessel

:Sarcasm:

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:26 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
To Toronto:
Hall
Yakupov

To Edmonton:
Kessel

:Sarcasm:
Still no centreman

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:32 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
To Toronto:
Hall
Yakupov

To Edmonton:
Kessel

:Sarcasm:
Perfff

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:39 PM
  #219
CSimpson18
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Originally Posted by Kelly23 View Post
Nothing to do with the two of them Edmonton does not have an Elite second line and good third line, and Boston had a lot of injuries last year so were not even as deep as they should have been.

Because Boston is a deep team it is a knock on Seguin, they both draw the other teams top pairings when there on the ice.
Boston scored A LOT more goals whether Seguin was on or off the ice than Edmonton, due in large part to your defensemen being an asset rather than a liability. Provides a lot more opportunity to get points, . Also makes it difficult and a bit unfair to compare certain stats across teams, for instance the stats you listed.

Hall was in on a higher percentage of his teams offense than Seguin was. Which is as meaningless without the proper context as points per minute.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:54 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Ok splitting hairs here.

One could argue that being a top line forward on a last place team would benefit one stat-wise as he is given tons of un-earned ice time & PP time,, whereas a young player on a top team would have to earn his ice time, play on a 3rd line, & get lil PP time eventually making it onto the 2nd unit.

I did not speak poorly of Hall, I just think Seguin is a bit more polished at this point in their careers.
He earned his ice time by putting up points.

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:28 PM
  #221
Oates2Neely
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Originally Posted by czar99 View Post
He earned his ice time by putting up points.
He was planted into the top-6 from day one. Dont give us the bs "he earned it" line, Hall is a great player, but he absoultely benefited (stats wise) by playing on a weak team. This cant be debated, Seguin wouldve played top- immediately also if the Oilers had drafted him, & ofcourse Hall (like Seguin) wouldve had to earned his in Boston.

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