HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Tampa Bay Lightning
Notices

CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-10-2012, 09:07 AM
  #201
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
So now the NHLPA is demanding the make whole provision includes paying players for games missed this season that won't be made up. Instead of a prorated salary. PLUS a 5% raise.

Yeah, anyone still on the players' side at this point is an idiot.

**** them.
I really don't disagree with any of this...but it is in my nature, that when someone makes a statement like that, that I must take the other side. Just because someone may take the other side of the argument, doesn't make them an idiot...so let's leave that part out....

And to be honest, I haven't really paid close attention to any of it, because I'm just so damn mad that they, both sides, would do this again.


Last edited by brymel: 11-10-2012 at 09:08 AM. Reason: because I wanted to
brymel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 09:07 AM
  #202
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Well I had an entire well typed out response but lost it somehow so ill just sum it up with this. I agree, both idiots, BUT, the owners locked out the players because there is no CBA and they weren't going to play without one in place because they know Fehr's MO and that he would strike. The NHL wante to negotiate in January. Fehr and NHLPA said no. So here we are and the players ask for 50/50 and their existing contracts honored. NHL gives them pretty close to exactly that and instead of accepting, they turn around and demand a raise along with a being paid for work they did not do. That's ridiculous.

Then you have idiot players spouting off that the NHL offer is based off of growth and what if it doesn't grow like that (even though the NHL offer was guaranteed money until the 3rd year which is good for the players because after this the first two years will be hard to have growth with fan pushback), and yet he backs the same growth the NHLPA is trying to project in every single one of their proposals to justify their gradual decline to 50/50. So it's ok for them to use growth but not the NHL, got it.

The players are idiots aren't being informed of all the details or both. This should have been over twice now. I'd bet 80% of the NHLPA would approve the NHLs last offer. It's the superstar players who will lose a couple million out of the many many million contracts that wouldn't want it. And Fehr who doesn't want a deal at all because he knows as soon as the entire season is canceled he can go right after the cap.

It's really a joke at this point. Why do you think recently retired players who have dealt with this before are saying the players need to just take the deal and it's fair enough.
Who is saying this?

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 09:38 AM
  #203
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brymel View Post
I really don't disagree with any of this...but it is in my nature, that when someone makes a statement like that, that I must take the other side. Just because someone may take the other side of the argument, doesn't make them an idiot...so let's leave that part out....

And to be honest, I haven't really paid close attention to any of it, because I'm just so damn mad that they, both sides, would do this again.
Fair enough. Blanket statements are usually controversial. I should have said if you defend the players at this point I would love to hear your reasoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Who is saying this?
Anonymous quotes on twitter by media.

IdealisticSniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 11:13 AM
  #204
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=IdealisticSniper;55664689]Fair enough. Blanket statements are usually controversial. I should have said if you defend the players at this point I would love to hear your reasoning.

Perfect...now we can be on the same side....

brymel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 03:13 PM
  #205
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Fair enough. Blanket statements are usually controversial. I should have said if you defend the players at this point I would love to hear your reasoning.



Anonymous quotes on twitter by media.
Oh, well, can't argue with that.

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 04:57 PM
  #206
Benders Lindyhop
Registered User
 
Benders Lindyhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 3,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Who is saying this?
Mike Modano, Bill Guerin and our very own Captain Dave. There may be more but these were the first that came up.

Quote:
Mike Modano, the all-time leading point scorer among American-born players, estimates the last lockout cost him more than $7 million in salary by sitting out a year. To him, the payoff wasn't worth the sacrifice.


Even with all his on-ice accomplishments, losing millions stings.


"It's money you feel you never get back. At some point, we were sold a bill of goods," he said. "Everybody was buying it. Everybody thought, 'Let's not let each other down. Let's do it for the future of the game. Blah, blah, blah.' You're only in the game so long."
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/83...m-last-lockout

Quote:
ESPN.COM: Former NHL star Mike Modano, speaking from his personal experience of the previous lockout, doesn’t believe the current one is worth it for NHL players, noting they’ll never get back the time and money lost to a lengthy lockout.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: He’s not the only former NHL star (Dave Andreychuk, Bill Guerin) to speak out against the futility of the PA trying to win a battle of attrition against the owners. A cynic would suggest it’s fine for them to have that opinion since they earned their millions, but they went through two lockouts, and learned the hard way following the last one that the longer a lockout goes, the worse it becomes for the players and the union. Again, I don’t believe the players should capitulate, but they need to be more flexible and negotiate off a 50-50 split of revenue. The longer this lockout goes, the more it favors the owners.
http://spectorshockey.net/blog/nhl-l...ember-19-2012/

It's getting to be a joke now. The owners have plenty of blame to shoulder here, but this is not a fight the PA can win, and honestly, now they're just being obstinate children.

The problem is, there is no way in hell the owners were going to let the season continue while negotiating a new CBA. Mr. Fehr took care of that possibility in 1994. No league will ever allow a PA the opportunity to strike again.

Benders Lindyhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 09:10 PM
  #207
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Mike Modano, Bill Guerin and our very own Captain Dave. There may be more but these were the first that came up.



http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/83...m-last-lockout



http://spectorshockey.net/blog/nhl-l...ember-19-2012/

It's getting to be a joke now. The owners have plenty of blame to shoulder here, but this is not a fight the PA can win, and honestly, now they're just being obstinate children.

The problem is, there is no way in hell the owners were going to let the season continue while negotiating a new CBA. Mr. Fehr took care of that possibility in 1994. No league will ever allow a PA the opportunity to strike again.
So then the players shouldn't try? Not even to soften the blow?

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 07:35 AM
  #208
Benders Lindyhop
Registered User
 
Benders Lindyhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 3,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
So then the players shouldn't try? Not even to soften the blow?
What they are trying isn't working. The NHLPA has every right to try and get their piece of the pie. But...you would think at a certain point that some of the players would realize that Fehr is leading them right off the edge of a cliff. They have already gotten some serious movement from the owners, but they want more. And then a little more. And then it's still not good enough.

Benders Lindyhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:50 AM
  #209
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...fgPLGAnT5fPrJN

Quote:
“Near the end of the meeting, Don [Fehr] said to Gary [Bettman]: ‘Let me get this straight. Even if the players agree to every single component of the league’s economic plan, we still don’t have a deal unless we also agree to every one of your proposed changes to player contract rights?’ ”

To which, both of our sources reported, “Gary said: ‘Yes.’”

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 12:32 PM
  #210
Benders Lindyhop
Registered User
 
Benders Lindyhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 3,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Oh wow, Larry Brooks with an anti-NHL piece quoting unknown sources? Color me shocked and amazed. Or not.

Benders Lindyhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:30 PM
  #211
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Oh wow, Larry Brooks with an anti-NHL piece quoting unknown sources? Color me shocked and amazed. Or not.
Maybe there's not a whole lot of pro-NHL stuff that can be written?

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:30 PM
  #212
Benders Lindyhop
Registered User
 
Benders Lindyhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 3,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Maybe there's not a whole lot of pro-NHL stuff that can be written?
Maybe there isn't. Don't really know.

What I do know is that I didn't trust Brooks to give an honest unbiased view of anything before the lockout. He couldn't give a rundown of just a run of the mill regular season game without throwing in some kind of ******** or conspiracy theory. So why would I trust him to have the inside track on what's happening in this situation?

Benders Lindyhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:45 PM
  #213
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
a new era
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 15,906
vCash: 500
Just throwing this out there, but Larry Brooks still owes me money for his Vinny will be traded at the draft to Montreal guarantee.

__________________
VL4ever
"It's still All In to me dammit." - Felonious Python
TheDaysOf 04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 06:52 PM
  #214
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Just throwing this out there, but Larry Brooks still owes me money for his Vinny will be traded at the draft to Montreal guarantee.
Was there a time limit to when he'd be traded?

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 07:11 PM
  #215
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
a new era
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 15,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Was there a time limit to when he'd be traded?
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...5439C80272285D
Quote:
Guaranteed to happen at the Entry Draft in Montreal, or the money back you spent to read this on the Internet: Vincent Lecavalier traded to the Canadiens.

TheDaysOf 04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-13-2012, 03:38 PM
  #216
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Good times. Remember when we used to think about trades?

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-14-2012, 04:43 PM
  #217
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Since they're negotiating a CBA, can the PA try to get the trapezoid and numbers from the front of helmets removed?

That's a worthy fight.

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2012, 02:16 AM
  #218
CC321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Source: if there isn't a deal in place in next 7days, NHL will cancel games thru Dec. 15. Next cancellation could be the season.
The players will soon have a 1.8 billion dollar hole in their collective wallet... and still not have a deal done for next season.

CC321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-15-2012, 07:50 AM
  #219
RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
 
RussianGuyovich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ellenton
Country: United States
Posts: 1,819
vCash: 742
Send a message via MSN to RussianGuyovich
It won't be the season. They will hold onto the hope, and by extension, the season ticket holders money, as long as they can. Last time the season wasn't cancelled until February.

I wish it was though. I want to get by the denial stage.

RussianGuyovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-16-2012, 07:11 PM
  #220
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turd ferguson View Post
It won't be the season. They will hold onto the hope, and by extension, the season ticket holders money, as long as they can. Last time the season wasn't cancelled until February.

I wish it was though. I want to get by the denial stage.
This, except for wishing the season was cancelled.

I'm caring less and less about the lockout itself each day. The league should cancel that first.



B.J. Crombeen signed with The Bear.

http://t.co/tXC4ewfJ

(aww yeah)



The PA is playing this proposed break smart. Let the anger at the league overflow.

If the PA really wanted to put the screws to the NHL, they'd get them to meet in Toronto, where the outside of the building would be surrounded by hockey fans booing their existence.



The lockout effects more than just the owners, players, concession workers, etc.

It effects me.

I'm afraid I won't be able to meet my 'Marty is short' joke quota for the year.

Christmas is cancelled.

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 09:02 AM
  #221
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Sources are saying that Ed Snider is now in the anti-lockout group.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...HL_talks_.html

Some things I want to note: the report indicates that there's a (unsourced) growing sentiment that a team like TB might not survive long term. This idea needs to be stamped out before it does end up effecting confidence in the team's future. (Just don't let the league do this. They've screwed up enough for one negotiation)

The report also says that Bill Clinton's name has been discussed as a possible mediator. I don't think the league or PA would want their situation compared to the Oslo I Accord.

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 03:46 PM
  #222
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
a new era
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 15,906
vCash: 500
https://twitter.com/darenmillard
Quote:
4 days into moratorium NHL & PA did speak today by phone daly/steve fehr. There r tentative plans to meet in person on Mon nite #Sportsnet
Quote:
Nothing confirmed in stone but looks like it will be the full compliment. Bettman, Daly, owners with both Fehrs and players. #Sportsnet

TheDaysOf 04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 04:17 PM
  #223
Benders Lindyhop
Registered User
 
Benders Lindyhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 3,792
vCash: 500
Sounds like Don doesn't deal well with dissension in the ranks.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...nference-call/

Quote:
“In the last conference call, a player asked Don why he was learning details of the NHL’s last proposal through the media and not via Don or the players in attendance,” an NHL player told ESPNBoston.com. “Don and some other players called that player out and basically embarrassed him for asking that.”

Now to be fair, since I criticized Brooks and his unsourced sources, I'll do the same here with this article. Hard to know what really happened and the author does say that in the next paragraph. But, if true, not good.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Sources are saying that Ed Snider is now in the anti-lockout group.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...HL_talks_.html

Some things I want to note: the report indicates that there's a (unsourced) growing sentiment that a team like TB might not survive long term. This idea needs to be stamped out before it does end up effecting confidence in the team's future. (Just don't let the league do this. They've screwed up enough for one negotiation)

The report also says that Bill Clinton's name has been discussed as a possible mediator. I don't think the league or PA would want their situation compared to the Oslo I Accord.
Too late for the bolded I'm afraid. It's all over the place. The usual suspects are doing cartwheels.

Benders Lindyhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 04:30 PM
  #224
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 12,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Sounds like Don doesn't deal well with dissension in the ranks.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...nference-call/




Now to be fair, since I criticized Brooks and his unsourced sources, I'll do the same here with this article. Hard to know what really happened and the author does say that in the next paragraph. But, if true, not good.







Too late for the bolded I'm afraid. It's all over the place. The usual suspects are doing cartwheels.
I know I've defended the PA a lot on here, but the NHLPA isn't a small organization. I don't know how the PA lets it's members know things, but getting the word around to ~700 players isn't going to be instantaneous, especially since they don't broadcast it themselves on tv, internets, or whatever.

It only takes one reporter to get his mitts on something and it's on twitter in seconds.

Felonious Python is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2012, 04:44 PM
  #225
Benders Lindyhop
Registered User
 
Benders Lindyhop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 3,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I know I've defended the PA a lot on here, but the NHLPA isn't a small organization. I don't know how the PA lets it's members know things, but getting the word around to ~700 players isn't going to be instantaneous, especially since they don't broadcast it themselves on tv, internets, or whatever.

It only takes one reporter to get his mitts on something and it's on twitter in seconds.
I guess it would depend on the timing. How long after the meeting was the conference call? Things like that.

However, if it is true that the guy got called out for asking that kind of question in a closed call, that's bad. It is after all a valid point. All Fehr would have had to say is exactly what you did. There are a lot of players and it takes time to get the info out. No need to ridicule a guy for a legit question. It lends a bit more credence to the league accusations of all of the players wishes not being taken into account.

Benders Lindyhop is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.