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Thread (V): Argos embarass Eskimos; Changes need to be made. Nichols seriously hurt.

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:53 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
Was it immediate firing, or in the off season?

I just think thats such a dumb reason to fire somebody, maybe this team was to used to success.
Nah that's not the dumb thing. The dumb thing was replacing him with the OC who went along with that play despite a horrible offence that had been incapable of moving the ball all season. Eventually he also was given the GM's job.

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11-12-2012, 02:56 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
Was it immediate firing, or in the off season?

I just think thats such a dumb reason to fire somebody, maybe this team was to used to success.

It was a dumb reason, and hindsight tells us now he really wasn't all that bad. But the optics were not good, and the fans were incensed we lost that game, and management acted swiftly on it. Higgins and Campbell had put a pretty good team together, won a cup in 2003, and left most of the quality pieces there for DM to ride it to another championship in 2005 before letting it all unravel under Rick LeLacheur and Maciocia. Higgins had a studious look about him, and many may have misinterpreted that as a weakness. I always thought he got the raw end of the stick. If that's the case, Mark Trestman should have been fired a long time ago.


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11-12-2012, 03:00 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
So, Crandell for Head Coach?

Good teams build from within, not last place teams. If we promote a member of this staff, we've basically just pulled an Oilers, who are the furthest thing from a model franchise. Every major member of the staff needs to go. Reed and Crandell without question. The fact that Nelson refused to blitz against a QB who's kryptonite is the blitz is an unflattering indictment on his intelligence. Kick returns were poor this year, and we capped the season off by booting a ball straight to Chad Owens that promptly went the other way. Whoever is in charge of special teams can GTFO too.

LaPolice got a very average roster to the Grey Cup last year. Reed did much worse with better personnel. I'd have no problem bringing in LaPolice.

I'm with you and Liquor on looking at Lapolice as a serious candidate. He also had crap for quarterbacking, as was shown after he left. But I don't remember him making all the boneheaded decisions our coaching staff has made. Nelson hung his own neck on Sunday, as far as I'm concerned by being stubborn and refusing to adapt to something that might and probably would have worked. We have some really good talent on D, but I think they need to be in a system that allows them to aggressively attack. Leaving RR to have his way in the pocket was suicide and you could tell after the first couple series that eventually, that strategy would pay off for the Argos in spades.

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11-12-2012, 06:48 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Like who for instance?

If Kavis Reed returns as HC, Ive had enough and will no longer support the team. I would wager Im not alone in that line of thinking.

This is a dangerous time imo. Who is making these football/hiring decisions? Rhodes?

That's scary.
I definitely see Ed Hervey for GM. I don't think Kavis Reed is going anywhere. I don't think he had the freedom to make the proper personnel decisions he needed to make this year and it rattled the confidence of the team and the tough decisions they had to make and execute on. There are some big holes that need to be filled in the front office before we get there. This would be Reed's third and final year of his contract. If we don't make a splash personnel wise this summer and don't improve next year, then he's definitely out. But I think he did what he could with what he had to work with.

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11-12-2012, 07:38 PM
  #580
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Kavis Reed is a very good motivator.

Kavis Reed is an ex Eskimo that wants to win and knows what it means to be part of the Esks fraternity.

Kavis Reed is an awful coach.

The team is constantly unprepared.
The team is very undisciplined.
He makes horrible in game decisions.
He makes horrible player decisions.
He has no clue how to develop a young QB.

In this past game the team made it's normal inexcusable one or two bone head moves. (After the Burnett int challenge and over turn which was obvious it was going to be overturned, we have to burn time out because we don't have enough defenders on the field.)

This thought that because Tillman was an idiot and as bad as he was that Reed is excused or elevated is ridiculous. He has done nothing at all to justify a pat on the back.

The whole organization needs to be purged and rebooted from the board of directors on down.

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11-12-2012, 07:43 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Like who for instance?

If Kavis Reed returns as HC, Ive had enough and will no longer support the team. I would wager Im not alone in that line of thinking.

This is a dangerous time imo. Who is making these football/hiring decisions? Rhodes?

That's scary.
That exact sentence used to contain the name Maciocia for many people.

I think Edmonton will always hate our head coaches. It doesn't really matter who we hire, his face will be on dartboards all over the city.

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11-12-2012, 08:00 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
That exact sentence used to contain the name Maciocia for many people.

I think Edmonton will always hate our head coaches. It doesn't really matter who we hire, his face will be on dartboards all over the city.
Nonsense.

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11-12-2012, 08:28 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by PACKY D ELEPHANT View Post
Was it immediate firing, or in the off season?

I just think thats such a dumb reason to fire somebody, maybe this team was to used to success.
Higgins wasn't fired solely for a fake punt that backfired in a playoff game, even though it kind of grew that appearance over time.

Higgins was not a great coach. The fact that he was better than Maciocia and Reed is not exactly a compliment. He couldn't manage a clock to save his life, and his in-game decision making was generally poor. A great many times we punted when we should have gambled, got aggressive when we should have been conservative, etc. under Higgins.

And at that time, the team was used to success. We won the Cup in 2003, then went 9-9 and lost at home to Sask in the western semi. That result was considered unacceptable, and so it should have been. Those were back in the days of accountability with our sports teams. It all changed with Maciocia though, and he was allowed to destroy the franchise, whereas anybody previous would have been fired in 2006.

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11-12-2012, 09:25 PM
  #584
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Besides having a disastrous game did anyone else notice that there seemed to be something physically wrong with Cory Boyd? The guy couldn't seem to hold his head up straight. Seeing him got me thinking of the affliction suffered by Rem Murray several years ago (dystonia).

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11-12-2012, 10:18 PM
  #585
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Really pumped that the Injury to Nichols isn't very serious and he will be back in time for 2013 season. We can really use him to hold the snap for field goal attempts. Plus, if KJ and Jyles are both injured, he'll play really well as a third string QB under KR

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11-13-2012, 05:45 AM
  #586
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This morning in the paper:

"Kavis, why didn't you start Nichols more often?"

"Because I'm paid to win football games."

Um, 2-9 your last ten games? Seriously?

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11-13-2012, 08:26 AM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post

The whole organization needs to be purged and rebooted from the board of directors on down.
What scares me is it could end up being worse than the current situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
That exact sentence used to contain the name Maciocia for many people.

I think Edmonton will always hate our head coaches. It doesn't really matter who we hire, his face will be on dartboards all over the city.
Reed would've been cut some slack if he would've learned from his mistakes, but like Tillman he is too stubborn to change his ways.

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11-13-2012, 08:29 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
This morning in the paper:

"Kavis, why didn't you start Nichols more often?"

"Because I'm paid to win football games."

Um, 2-9 your last ten games? Seriously?
This in itself should cost the man his job. Would be different if he had Joseph, Jyles and Dunnigan as his Qb's, but he didn't he had a better option that shown signs of being better than the rest and he refused to use him.

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11-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #589
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What scares me is it could end up being worse than the current situation.



Reed would've been cut some slack if he would've learned from his mistakes, but like Tillman he is too stubborn to change his ways.

We just fired our incompetent GM, and did it before a playoff game. Our CEO is an idiot that knows nothing about football. We traded away our starting quarterback for magic beans. The rest of our quarterbacks are absolute shyte, save for a young guy that will have to come back from a horrific injury, and has the grand total of about 2 games under his belt due to incompetence by the coaches.Our coaching staff is a disaster, not a clue how to manage a game or personnel, or prepare a team. We have no 1st or 4th round picks in the upcoming draft after an abysmal season. We have 14 unrestricted free agents, 9 of them starters on the defence, of which we'll surely lose a few when free agency hits. I'm open to suggestions as to how the situation can possibly be worse.

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11-13-2012, 09:41 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
That exact sentence used to contain the name Maciocia for many people.

I think Edmonton will always hate our head coaches. It doesn't really matter who we hire, his face will be on dartboards all over the city.
I don't recall us hating Ray Jauch, Hugh Campbell, Ron Lancaster, Joe Farragelli. Oh yah, those guys all were winners and knew how to run a team.

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11-13-2012, 09:43 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Kavis Reed is a very good motivator.

Kavis Reed is an ex Eskimo that wants to win and knows what it means to be part of the Esks fraternity.

Kavis Reed is an awful coach.

The team is constantly unprepared.
The team is very undisciplined.
He makes horrible in game decisions.
He makes horrible player decisions.
He has no clue how to develop a young QB.

In this past game the team made it's normal inexcusable one or two bone head moves. (After the Burnett int challenge and over turn which was obvious it was going to be overturned, we have to burn time out because we don't have enough defenders on the field.)

This thought that because Tillman was an idiot and as bad as he was that Reed is excused or elevated is ridiculous. He has done nothing at all to justify a pat on the back.

The whole organization needs to be purged and rebooted from the board of directors on down.

Agreed 100 %. People are overestimating his passion and dedication to being an Eskimo, which, while being admirable, does not make up for the lack of preparation and on field gong show we've had to experience.

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11-13-2012, 09:46 AM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Higgins wasn't fired solely for a fake punt that backfired in a playoff game, even though it kind of grew that appearance over time.

Higgins was not a great coach. The fact that he was better than Maciocia and Reed is not exactly a compliment. He couldn't manage a clock to save his life, and his in-game decision making was generally poor. A great many times we punted when we should have gambled, got aggressive when we should have been conservative, etc. under Higgins.

And at that time, the team was used to success. We won the Cup in 2003, then went 9-9 and lost at home to Sask in the western semi. That result was considered unacceptable, and so it should have been. Those were back in the days of accountability with our sports teams. It all changed with Maciocia though, and he was allowed to destroy the franchise, whereas anybody previous would have been fired in 2006.
No coincidence that all this crap started after Hugh Campbell left in 2006. In hindsight, we underestimated the value he brought to this organization in every capacity that he was in. Sadly, right after that, the Rick LeLacheur era began, and the rest as they say, is history. We've been in a big pile of muck since then.

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11-13-2012, 10:17 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
We just fired our incompetent GM, and did it before a playoff game. Our CEO is an idiot that knows nothing about football. We traded away our starting quarterback for magic beans. The rest of our quarterbacks are absolute shyte, save for a young guy that will have to come back from a horrific injury, and has the grand total of about 2 games under his belt due to incompetence by the coaches.Our coaching staff is a disaster, not a clue how to manage a game or personnel, or prepare a team. We have no 1st or 4th round picks in the upcoming draft after an abysmal season. We have 14 unrestricted free agents, 9 of them starters on the defence, of which we'll surely lose a few when free agency hits. I'm open to suggestions as to how the situation can possibly be worse.
Lose all the good free agents, see Hervey leave because he hates what is happening, hire some guy that thinks he knows it all and then trade away even more players.

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11-13-2012, 10:59 AM
  #594
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Anybody else worried that Sheritt is on record in the papers as not knowing where he'll be playing next year?

This is not a "I want to be here" comment its a considering any and all options comment.

I'll equate this with playing with a headcoach that lost almost complete control of this dressingroom this season. A guy that couldn't even motivate his club to give even a half hearted effort in a playoff contest. A coach that has become so timid in his role he has his star linebacker stating: "I'll play when I want to, I'm not coming out of a game for anything as long as I can go". Of course its up to the coach to enact some sensibility in such situations for instance as Calgary did with Cornish in the exact same game. But instead we have Kavis, who has so little hold on the team he's by now scared to even give an on field directive.

The yelling and screaming is a mask for basic insecurity in the position and always was. People that are confident in their approach to management don't stomp their feed and yell and have tantrums. They know they can impact in meaningful and effective ways.

Anybody remember when Kavis Reed actually stated he recruited Gizmo to talk to Burnett because essentially Burnett needed to hear a message from someone else? This after Kavis Reed completely lost his cool and credibility with the player.
I wonder how many players by now in this lineup are internally shaking their heads at whats gone on.

Picture perfect illustrations being how little the players even attend to coaching instruction. To wit not knowing the plays, schemes, or who's even on the field in given situations. In response to a head coach that had repeatedly acknowledged lack of clear communication. We have a complete cluster**** here. A coach that struggles in giving direction and players who question the coaching so much that they don't receive it.

This club just isn't getting appropriate or proper direction, the players are chronically confused, and don't believe as a team they can win with this lack of direction. WE were defeated I suspect on Sunday as soon as the Argos got rolling.

The org thought the expulsion of Tillman would bring about a change in how the players approached the game, thought they'd be excited, weight off their shoulders etc. Which players brought a winning level of intensity to this playoff game? Did this look like a team that wanted to be in the playoffs or look like a team packing their bags already.

We have a desperate coach steadfastly starting "his guy" Joseph who he knows is loyal to him, because he questions how much loyalty is around him. This mirrors some of what most coaches will do when they suspect they've lost the dressingroom. Go with their guys. Even if its guys like Moreau, Staios, Horcoff.

What we have here is a group of players who by now have next to no connection with the team, org, or brand. Many of whom will be cleaning out their lockers never to return.

The real exodus is happening starting right now.

I wonder who's going to be on this squad by next season.


Last edited by Replacement: 11-13-2012 at 11:07 AM.
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11-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #595
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These comments by Reed yesterday are alarming.




"True to his character, Reed did not dodge any questions about how he deployed his personnel in the semifinal.

He gently chided the media for their season-long fixation with seeing 25-year-old quarterback Matt Nichols play more.

Why didn’t he play more?

“Simple,” Reed said, without hesitation. “Because we’re getting paid to win football games now.”

As for rotating tailbacks Hugh Charles and Cory Boyd on Sunday, not staying with the hot hand, which was Charles, at least early in that game, Reed said: “We went with what we felt was best for the football team.”

The Eskimos coaches developed a plan based on film work and other due diligence and stuck to their plan, in other words."





"Paid to win football games now? Kavis, you went 2-9 in your last 11 games. If that's how you feel, you should return most of your paychecks.

More proof that the man has no in game sense. He studied film, made his decision, and stayed there despite what was happening in the game, refusing to adapt. And people want him back as a HC why??

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11-13-2012, 11:06 AM
  #596
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His stupidity is only surpassed by his arrogance.

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11-13-2012, 11:20 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
These comments by Reed yesterday are alarming.




"True to his character, Reed did not dodge any questions about how he deployed his personnel in the semifinal.

He gently chided the media for their season-long fixation with seeing 25-year-old quarterback Matt Nichols play more.

Why didn’t he play more?

“Simple,” Reed said, without hesitation. “Because we’re getting paid to win football games now.”

As for rotating tailbacks Hugh Charles and Cory Boyd on Sunday, not staying with the hot hand, which was Charles, at least early in that game, Reed said: “We went with what we felt was best for the football team.”

The Eskimos coaches developed a plan based on film work and other due diligence and stuck to their plan, in other words."





"Paid to win football games now? Kavis, you went 2-9 in your last 11 games. If that's how you feel, you should return most of your paychecks.

More proof that the man has no in game sense. He studied film, made his decision, and stayed there despite what was happening in the game, refusing to adapt. And people want him back as a HC why??
Honestly he can feel that way and say what he wants the fact remains the Argos were a team we could've beat. This wasn't a game that we were going in a huge underdog. If Kavis thought he gave his best efforts then whoever becomes his boss next year really needs to evaluate if those were the best results possible given the personnel we had.

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11-13-2012, 11:26 AM
  #598
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Quote:
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Kavis Reed is a very good motivator.
He isn't. Only the crowd that believes Al Pacino is an actual football coach would be thnking this.

Anybody notice the two coaches most reliant on fire and brimstone idiot speeches are out of the playoffs in the first round with both teams looking listless and doing next to nothing down the closing stretch?

The comicbook Seargeant in the army speeches maybe work half a dozen times. After which players basically can't take any of it seriously. I really question any coach in say game 2 or 3, throwing out all the superlatives, cliches, and motivational gimmicks they can think of. Whats left after that?
Roger Neilson was astute enough to save silliness like "Pyramid Power" for the playoffs.. but he was a coach off the ice and a reknowned tactician. A great student of the game that could teach players. They Pyramid junk was more for fans or players that needed an extra push.

Coaching is about what takes place before, after, and during games. Coaching is not the 10minute spitting session before a game. It maybe is that in the movies. If you haven't done your work as a coach by game day nothing is going to save you.

Kavis Reed is not a motivator. He's practising beyond competence and wouldn't know the first thing about how to get the consistent best performance out of people. He's heavily reliant on approaches that are ineffective over time.

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11-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #599
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Mark Nelson should definetely be back. I would still have Kavis back, he didn't have the tools to do anything this year. If you don't have the tools it doesn't matter what you do, you won't be able to win. Ed Hervey should be are new GM.
are you serious? he didn't have the tools? Kavis just didn't know how to use what was in the toolbox.
he may have a $10 hammer instead of the $50 hammer, but reed still couldn't figure out which end of the hammer to use. It doesn't matter what tools you have if you're clueless in how to use them.

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11-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Kavis Reed is a very good motivator.

Kavis Reed is an ex Eskimo that wants to win and knows what it means to be part of the Esks fraternity.

Kavis Reed is an awful coach.

The team is constantly unprepared.
The team is very undisciplined.
He makes horrible in game decisions.
He makes horrible player decisions.
He has no clue how to develop a young QB.

In this past game the team made it's normal inexcusable one or two bone head moves. (After the Burnett int challenge and over turn which was obvious it was going to be overturned, we have to burn time out because we don't have enough defenders on the field.)

This thought that because Tillman was an idiot and as bad as he was that Reed is excused or elevated is ridiculous. He has done nothing at all to justify a pat on the back.

The whole organization needs to be purged and rebooted from the board of directors on down.
we don't always agree, but I agree with everything you posted here. Stoneman also made some excellent comments, and he is right to bring up the statements Reed made to the media about the game and the season.
If Reed really believes the stuff coming out of his own mouth he has to be FIRED.

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