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Old
11-12-2012, 08:02 PM
  #26
Habbadasher
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About Vail, I have a friend who is a season ticket holder for the Windsor Spitfires, and he tells me that Brady plays the shutdown role, while leading the team in points. I am not questioning where he is on the list, but I am saying we might have a valuable third line Centre who can contribute, and has decent size.

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11-12-2012, 08:22 PM
  #27
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With that kind of prospect pool, if we draft nicely the next summer, we're gonna have the depth to full our roster for years. We need high end talent but we're gonna have all the player we want to fill the 2nd to 4th line and 2nd to 3rd pairing. That kind of depth give you the luxury to spend for top UFA, with all the cheap players coming through the pipe line.

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11-12-2012, 08:31 PM
  #28
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I think Vail, Bournival and Hudon will make an incerdible 3rd line in a few years. They can be a great energy/annoying line that can score too. This is something the Habs have needed for a long time. Imagine this bottom 6:

Hudon - Vail - Bournival
Prust - White - Moen

Not too bad.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:46 PM
  #29
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Good to hear as I never get chance to see a Bulldogs game
I've been sincerely impressed with Tinordi. He's not dominant by any stretch, but his skating and puck handling are way, way, WAY better than anything I expected (I figured he'd be a lot like Hal Gil). He's no finesse player, but for a guy his size, he's pretty smooth.

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11-12-2012, 08:48 PM
  #30
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Great list. I really like to see MacMillan so high, he's a really fun player to watch. 100% every shift and skill to match it.

Something that I really like about our prospect pool is we have a good combination of boom/bust guys (Beaulieu, Collberg, Bozon, Hudon) and safer bet types (Tinordi, Ellis, Leblanc, MacMillan, Vail, Bournival). It's nice to know that we have good depth in not only a lot of positions, but many different types of players who can fill various roles. I really like how versatile some of our prospects are too. Leblanc, Holland, Bournival, MacMillan, and Vail can all play centre or wing. Of course you also have Galchenyuk who can play all three forward positions and Collberg who can play either wing. There's also a lot of character in our prospect pool. Tinordi, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Ellis, and Bournival all have worn the "C" at the junior level.

However, I think we are still missing true top end talent on the wings, but there's good depth. Defence is a bit suspect for me too, I don't see in our organization another top pairing defenceman to with Subban. Like the wings though, there's good depth.


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Old
11-12-2012, 11:10 PM
  #31
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Great list. I really like to see MacMillan so high, he's a really fun player to watch. 100% every shift and skill to match it.

Something that I really like about our prospect pool is we have a good combination of boom/bust guys (Beaulieu, Collberg, Bozon, Hudon) and safer bet types (Tinordi, Ellis, Leblanc, MacMillan, Vail, Bournival). It's nice to know that we have good depth in not only a lot of positions, but many different types of players who can fill various roles. I really like how versatile some of our prospects are too. Leblanc, Holland, Bournival, MacMillan, and Vail can all play centre or wing. Of course you also have Galchenyuk who can play all three forward positions and Collberg who can play either wing. There's also a lot of character in our prospect pool. Tinordi, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Ellis, and Bournival all have worn the "C" at the junior level.

However, I think we are still missing true top end talent on the wings, but there's good depth. Defence is a bit suspect for me too, I don't see in our organization another top pairing defenceman to with Subban. Like the wings though, there's good depth.
May get somebody like a Nurse in first round of '13 draft. Or, where we have depth, maybe package 2 or 3 prospects for high talent on the wings?

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11-13-2012, 02:37 AM
  #32
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Pretty disappointed by the projections some have concerning Tinordi. Since he's been drafted I've been operating under the assumption that he was going to be a pretty safe bet for top pairing and no doubt about being a top 4.

If Komisarek can be on a top pairing is it that far fetched that Tinordi can?

I'd like to think PK can elevate his partner's play the way Markov did.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:10 AM
  #33
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Pretty disappointed by the projections some have concerning Tinordi. Since he's been drafted I've been operating under the assumption that he was going to be a pretty safe bet for top pairing and no doubt about being a top 4.

If Komisarek can be on a top pairing is it that far fetched that Tinordi can?

I'd like to think PK can elevate his partner's play the way Markov did.
These days most coaches like to pair a stay at home type of defensemen with a puckmover more offensively minded, so Tinordi could play alot even strength if plaired with a guy like Subban in the future..


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11-13-2012, 06:18 AM
  #34
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Collberg as #2 has been appearing on a lot of lists, so I'm not too surprised to see him there. I don't strongly disagree, I just wish we could see more from him before throwing him up there on the list. Nice top 25 though. I agree with everything for the most part.

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11-13-2012, 06:20 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by makbowles View Post
Pretty disappointed by the projections some have concerning Tinordi. Since he's been drafted I've been operating under the assumption that he was going to be a pretty safe bet for top pairing and no doubt about being a top 4.

If Komisarek can be on a top pairing is it that far fetched that Tinordi can?

I'd like to think PK can elevate his partner's play the way Markov did.
It would be very silly to assume a d-man who is drafted in the bottom 3rd of the 1st round is going to be a #1 or #2. He was drafted to be a big, strong presence on the blueline who could also potentially be a top penalty killer.

It is funny how everyone seems to have this need to label players in relation to their potential depth chart position. Tinordi/Leblanc etc. were drafted because they have what it takes to be integral parts of a championship calibre team. These types of players are the foundation and backbone of winning teams and are absolutely vital to winning championships. I was happy with Tinordi being picked because he has the potential to become an asset that is nearly impossible to trade for.......not because I felt that he needed to be a top pairing d-man just because he was drafted in the first round.

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11-13-2012, 07:10 AM
  #36
dackelljuneaubulis02
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It would be very silly to assume a d-man who is drafted in the bottom 3rd of the 1st round is going to be a #1 or #2. He was drafted to be a big, strong presence on the blueline who could also potentially be a top penalty killer.

It is funny how everyone seems to have this need to label players in relation to their potential depth chart position. Tinordi/Leblanc etc. were drafted because they have what it takes to be integral parts of a championship calibre team. These types of players are the foundation and backbone of winning teams and are absolutely vital to winning championships. I was happy with Tinordi being picked because he has the potential to become an asset that is nearly impossible to trade for.......not because I felt that he needed to be a top pairing d-man just because he was drafted in the first round.
very silly

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:45 AM
  #37
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Bournival is in my top-5 and Brady Vail is far too low (he's awesome). I also have Quailer higher, as I'm still 100% sure he's ahead of the game since he missed an entire year.

I only did a top-20, but Cichy was close for me. I liked him a few years ago and despite missing a year to transfer rules, he's off to a hot start this year,

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:11 AM
  #38
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On another note...am I the only one not convinced in Beaulieu? He's looked good for maybe half his games but the other half he makes me wonder if he'll reach his potential
I'm fully convinced he will be an NHLer at some point as he has an impressive mix of offensive skill + physical abilities. The concerns I have are his defensive game and mental lapses when he has the puck in his own end he makes questionable decisions at times. We'll see how he adjusts over the next couple of years, if he doesn't improve his defensive zone play then he could end up being more of a PP specialist.

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Good list. One thing I would have done differently is put Leblanc 2nd because he is more experienced and also a safe bet for the NHL.
Thanks. Having more experience doesn't make someone higher when I do these lists, since it's about where each player is in their development and where they will be. Since most are at different development stages, I look at where they are in those stages and compare. I agree on Leblanc being a safe bet for the NHL but with the others like Beaulieu/Tinordi/Gallagher/Kristo/Bennett, frankly imo you can put any of them near the top as they are very interesting prospects who are all right there with one another in terms of rankings.

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About Vail, I have a friend who is a season ticket holder for the Windsor Spitfires, and he tells me that Brady plays the shutdown role, while leading the team in points. I am not questioning where he is on the list, but I am saying we might have a valuable third line Centre who can contribute, and has decent size.
Good to know, I will hopefully get to see him more often. Clearly he's having a great start to the season which is good to see.

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Great list. I really like to see MacMillan so high, he's a really fun player to watch. 100% every shift and skill to match it.
Thanks. I actually wanted to put MacMillan higher but it was hard to find someone to move down instead. As long as he fills out more and improves his lower body strength, he could end up being a very solid prospect for us in time. Agreed that he's a fun player to watch as I get most North Dakota games on tv so I have seen him a ton already.

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Pretty disappointed by the projections some have concerning Tinordi. Since he's been drafted I've been operating under the assumption that he was going to be a pretty safe bet for top pairing and no doubt about being a top 4.

If Komisarek can be on a top pairing is it that far fetched that Tinordi can?

I'd like to think PK can elevate his partner's play the way Markov did.
Tinordi does remind me a bit of Komisarek/O'Byrne, but I look at it more in terms of what they bring and what kind of ice time they will see. I think Tinordi is a safe bet to be at the very least a good bottom pairing type, if he can be more then great.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Collberg as #2 has been appearing on a lot of lists, so I'm not too surprised to see him there. I don't strongly disagree, I just wish we could see more from him before throwing him up there on the list. Nice top 25 though. I agree with everything for the most part.
Thanks. I haven't seen enough of him yet but what i've seen i've been very impressed with his skill level and speed. I think he could end up being an excellent top line sniper for us, so hopefully i'm not overrating him but we'll see how it goes for him over the next couple of years.

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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It would be very silly to assume a d-man who is drafted in the bottom 3rd of the 1st round is going to be a #1 or #2. He was drafted to be a big, strong presence on the blueline who could also potentially be a top penalty killer.

It is funny how everyone seems to have this need to label players in relation to their potential depth chart position. Tinordi/Leblanc etc. were drafted because they have what it takes to be integral parts of a championship calibre team. These types of players are the foundation and backbone of winning teams and are absolutely vital to winning championships. I was happy with Tinordi being picked because he has the potential to become an asset that is nearly impossible to trade for.......not because I felt that he needed to be a top pairing d-man just because he was drafted in the first round.
Good way to put it.

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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
Bournival is in my top-5 and Brady Vail is far too low (he's awesome). I also have Quailer higher, as I'm still 100% sure he's ahead of the game since he missed an entire year.

I only did a top-20, but Cichy was close for me. I liked him a few years ago and despite missing a year to transfer rules, he's off to a hot start this year,
I don't think Bournival has the offensive upside personally, to be ranked in the top 5 but I do like his defensive game and work ethic. Vail likely should be higher but as I said I already felt I was going overboard with the 2012 picks as I was more impressed with others like Hudon/Collberg/Bozon. Quailer it will be interesting to see what he can do in the AHL, I felt he should have gone back to the NCAA as he's missed so much time to injuries.

I saw a lot of Cichy at North Dakota, will see him at some point this year i suspect, he's got some offensive skills as he can dish the puck but overall I consider him to be near the bottom of our prospect pool.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #39
Gabe84
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I agree that we are way too preoccupied by labels than actual results, it's actually kind of hilarious.

Great list montreal. Maybe I missed it somewhere along the thread, but can't you put up links to your website anymore?

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11-13-2012, 01:43 PM
  #40
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Some people like you will never appreciate the real value of a premium shutdown defenseman in the NHL.. Tinordi has been the best Dogs defenseman lately and he is about the only one who played at the Crunch level on the Dogs side last game.. Tinordi is improving greatly and you need that kind of defensive/physical minded force on your blueline.. More I see Tinordi play, more he is becoming one of my favorites..
I do appreciate the value of a premium shutdown d-man. I just don't think Tinordi will be one premium shutdown d-man. He may become an OK shutdown d-man, but it is not so hard to find. I like Timmins and Habs' prospects, but I honnestly think that one should never waste a first round pick on such a d-man since you can developp one with a later pick.

Anyway, my point is not that Tinordi is BAD. My point is he doesn't deserve a top ten spot in the prospect list.

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11-13-2012, 02:01 PM
  #41
montreal
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Great list montreal. Maybe I missed it somewhere along the thread, but can't you put up links to your website anymore?
Thanks. http://www.habprospects.com/modules....rticle&sid=190

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I do appreciate the value of a premium shutdown d-man. I just don't think Tinordi will be one premium shutdown d-man. He may become an OK shutdown d-man, but it is not so hard to find. I like Timmins and Habs' prospects, but I honnestly think that one should never waste a first round pick on such a d-man since you can developp one with a later pick.

Anyway, my point is not that Tinordi is BAD. My point is he doesn't deserve a top ten spot in the prospect list.
I think that Tinordi has everything he needs to become a premium shutdown D at some point in the future. I'd like to see him with more of a mean streak and improve his offensive game.

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11-13-2012, 05:33 PM
  #42
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Wow, sure am loving that list. 5 more picks in the first 2 rounds in this deep draft sure will help some more. Can't wait to see these investments pay off
Thought it was 1 first rounder and 3 second rounders.

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11-13-2012, 05:57 PM
  #43
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I'd have Beaulieu and Tinordi in front of Collberg and Leblanc, since they seem like safer picks to become solid NHLers, while Collberg might have higher upside but it's pretty hard at this point to have a good idea of what he could potentailly become. And Leblanc has pretty low upside imo, even though he might be closer to be a NHLer.

I actually might put Kristo and Gallagher in front of Leblanc.

Maybe I'm just underrating him?

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11-13-2012, 05:58 PM
  #44
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Thought it was 1 first rounder and 3 second rounders.
You're right. We've got our picks, plus Nsh 2nd and Cgy 2nd.

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11-13-2012, 06:49 PM
  #45
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I'd have Beaulieu and Tinordi in front of Collberg and Leblanc, since they seem like safer picks to become solid NHLers, while Collberg might have higher upside but it's pretty hard at this point to have a good idea of what he could potentailly become. And Leblanc has pretty low upside imo, even though he might be closer to be a NHLer.

I actually might put Kristo and Gallagher in front of Leblanc.

Maybe I'm just underrating him?
How are any of the guys you mentioned safer than someone who actually played in the NHL and did reasonably well?

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11-13-2012, 07:07 PM
  #46
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How are any of the guys you mentioned safer than someone who actually played in the NHL and did reasonably well?
Playing a few games in the NHL is one thing, becoming a solid player playing an important role is another. I feel confident that Beaulieu and Tinordi have what it takes to become legit top-4 dmen, but even though Leblanc is a good all-around player, I don't see him becoming more than an average third liner, or maybe a weak 2nd line winger. He's still really young and seem to be the kind of guy who has the work ethic to constiniously develop his game, a bit like Plekanec did, but right now I feel he lacks that special asset that could make him some kind of impact player.

Again, maybe I'm underrating him. He was indeed able to adapt his game to each new league he played in, including the NHL.

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11-14-2012, 08:22 AM
  #47
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Playing a few games in the NHL is one thing, becoming a solid player playing an important role is another. I feel confident that Beaulieu and Tinordi have what it takes to become legit top-4 dmen, but even though Leblanc is a good all-around player, I don't see him becoming more than an average third liner, or maybe a weak 2nd line winger. He's still really young and seem to be the kind of guy who has the work ethic to constiniously develop his game, a bit like Plekanec did, but right now I feel he lacks that special asset that could make him some kind of impact player.

Again, maybe I'm underrating him. He was indeed able to adapt his game to each new league he played in, including the NHL.
If not for his injury, Leblanc would have been Hamilton's best player, like he allready was a way better player than Geoffrion was last year in the NHL.

To me, Leblanc is a sure bet for regular and efficient third line duty in the NHL, with occasionnal mandates on the top 2 lines. That is almost what he was allready doing last year as a rookie with only one AHL season behind his belt. The only worry I have is that he seems fragile. I hope he won't become the next Benoit Brunet. People don't remember it -- we prefer to laugh at his misfortune and lack of TV analyst talent -- but Brunet was actually a pretty good prospect in his first 2 years, with some nice hands and some interesting moves. He could have become a very valuable second line winger with some goals and good all around play.

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11-14-2012, 09:55 AM
  #48
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I'd have Beaulieu and Tinordi in front of Collberg and Leblanc, since they seem like safer picks to become solid NHLers, while Collberg might have higher upside but it's pretty hard at this point to have a good idea of what he could potentailly become. And Leblanc has pretty low upside imo, even though he might be closer to be a NHLer.

I actually might put Kristo and Gallagher in front of Leblanc.

Maybe I'm just underrating him?
As I said earlier, after Galchenyuk I have Collberg, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc, Gallagher, Kristo and Bennett all in the next tier so where they are ranked as a group will vary from person to person but imo these are our top prospects. Some will have Tinordi at 2, others Beaulieu, some will have Leblanc, etc...

I may have overrated Collberg but I like what i've seen from him so far and think he has higher upside. Personally I think Leblanc doesn't have low upside as he's been a scorer everywhere, so in a few years I think he will be a very good NHLer. I'm a huge fan of Bennett and Kristo as I think both have big upside but both are also undersized which is a concern.

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Thought it was 1 first rounder and 3 second rounders.
Correct, but if there's a season and we finish around the same as last year then our 3rd round pick could be in the early 60's, so we would have say 5 top 65 picks.

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11-14-2012, 02:00 PM
  #49
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I think calling Beaulieu a safe pick at this point is an overstatement.. He started the year nicely but I think it was more on the adrenaline to make a good first impression cause lately he has been quite brutal.. As I said numerous times, he has to get stronger and work on the fundamentals of the game, will have to take the next off season seriously and builk up a huge deal.. Typical case of a kid thinking talent alone is enough to play in the big league.. We are lucky the new management hired Brisebois and Lapointe to work with the kids, Beaulieu is a one that should benefit alot from this..

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11-14-2012, 05:13 PM
  #50
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I think calling Beaulieu a safe pick at this point is an overstatement.. He started the year nicely but I think it was more on the adrenaline to make a good first impression cause lately he has been quite brutal.. As I said numerous times, he has to get stronger and work on the fundamentals of the game, will have to take the next off season seriously and builk up a huge deal.. Typical case of a kid thinking talent alone is enough to play in the big league.. We are lucky the new management hired Brisebois and Lapointe to work with the kids, Beaulieu is a one that should benefit alot from this..
Well, prospects are pretty much never surefire but I would put my money on a guy like Beaulieu, who has the whole package to become a legit NHLer, rather than on guys who thrive in junior or in the AHL, but who are "good not not great" in every aspect of their game. A guy like Palushaj is a fine player, but you just feel that he's either not fast enough, not strong enough, not intense enough, or that he doesn't have a good enough shot find his spot in the big leagues.

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