HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-12-2012, 03:39 PM
  #751
IBleedNYRBlue
Registered User
 
IBleedNYRBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
When the moment is right?

Get a deal done already you idiot.

IBleedNYRBlue is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 04:00 PM
  #752
nyr5186
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New Orleans
Country: Madagascar
Posts: 2,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeE7QJmcI3U

Yup.

nyr5186 is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 04:09 PM
  #753
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
90 minutes total of negotiations the past 3 days, good job.

Jumbo* is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 04:20 PM
  #754
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
https://twitter.com/andystrickland/s...70346039635970



I always find it shocking when analysts have to confidence to comment on such things when they clearly don't have even a basic understanding of economics.
Supply and demand.

Short supply of truly dynamic players - demand is high for them - price goes up. You'd figure even a hockey writer would understand the basic structure of markets, but perhaps Im giving too much credit.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 04:43 PM
  #755
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,517
vCash: 500
$220M

Quote:
On a more positive note, he indicated that the sides were "fairly close" to an agreement on revenue sharing. It's believed the NHL is willing to bump the annual pot to $220 million from its current position of $140 million.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409346

I think NHL revenue sharing was $150M. Not $140M.

NHL proposed $200M in October after they proposed $190M. NHLPA proposed $240M in August. $220M is splitting the difference.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 05:23 PM
  #756
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Should the usually fabulously wealthy owners be indemnified every CBA against their own lack of restraint--their own manipulations in figuring out how to subvert the agreement like we all know they will and then lavishly spending on players to put their franchises over the top?
This is the one of the items that I find the most galling. Where is it written that an NHL owner MUST make money? What business model has EVERYONE successful? Businesses rise and fall with their owners making right and wrong choices. How is it that the NHL has the only owners that are trying to bend the CBA so that it indemnifies them from loosing money?

True Blue is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 05:24 PM
  #757
Ih8theislanders
Full-kit ****ers
 
Ih8theislanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bronx,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
$220M



http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409346

I think NHL revenue sharing was $150M. Not $140M.

NHL proposed $200M in October after they proposed $190M. NHLPA proposed $240M in August. $220M is splitting the difference.
Watch Fehr go out and ask for $260M now.

Ih8theislanders is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 05:56 PM
  #758
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Watch Fehr go out and ask for $260M now.
Its more likely Bettman will decide the NHLPA took to long to give in to his demands on other issues and drop it to 180M.

Jumbo* is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 06:12 PM
  #759
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,517
vCash: 500
Bettman's first tweet

Quote:
We're working hard trying to resolve the new CBA. We're hopeful we can salvage a 12-13 NHL season for the sake of the worlds greatest fans!
https://twitter.com/Commish_Gary/sta...92279858802688

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 06:16 PM
  #760
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I just barfed all over my keyboard.

Stop worrying about getting the fan aboard your side Gary and negotiate.

edit - LOL at the responses he's getting

Jumbo* is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 06:23 PM
  #761
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
This is the one of the items that I find the most galling. Where is it written that an NHL owner MUST make money? What business model has EVERYONE successful? Businesses rise and fall with their owners making right and wrong choices. How is it that the NHL has the only owners that are trying to bend the CBA so that it indemnifies them from loosing money?
One could just as easily say:

A) Where is it written that the players are due ever penny on every SLC on time and without risk? Those are subsidiary documents to a master document that has expired and is currently under renegotiation.

or

B) Where is it written that the players are entitled to everything that they had in the previous CBA and should receive something for everything they give up? That was an old deal that is no longer market.

I am on the side of getting a deal done. And, if the sides are truly "within spitting distance" on the rev split and make whole, then it is now incumbent on the league to give on a couple of the contracting issues and the players to concede on a couple, IMO. But the blindly pro-player partisan sentiment that characterizes more than half this board can be very frustrating.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 11-12-2012 at 10:01 PM.
BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 07:05 PM
  #762
abev
HFBoards Sponsor
 
abev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,581
vCash: 500
Does the MSG website show Rangers games in December because those games have not been officially cancelled? It looks a little weird. Link

abev is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 07:21 PM
  #763
fxhomie
Registered User
 
fxhomie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: East CoCo County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 141
vCash: 500
lol...The Commish's account is suspended.


fxhomie is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 07:25 PM
  #764
bubba5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxhomie View Post
lol...The Commish's account is suspended.

I would say what a loser but that guy is sitting in his penthouse or mansion say that about us hockey fans.

bubba5 is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 07:55 PM
  #765
CM PUNK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
Does the MSG website show Rangers games in December because those games have not been officially cancelled? It looks a little weird. Link
yes. games have only been canceled thru november...probably will cancel dec in the next week

CM PUNK is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 07:56 PM
  #766
turcotte8
Registered User
 
turcotte8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris

The NHL says the @Commish_Gary account is a fake.

turcotte8 is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #767
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris

The NHL says the @Commish_Gary account is a fake.
REALLY?!?!

And here I was thinking he was tweeting in the middle of the hall of fame ceremony

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 08:29 PM
  #768
Glen Teflon Sather
Like A Boss
 
Glen Teflon Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,848
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Glen Teflon Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris

The NHL says the @Commish_Gary account is a fake.
Even the fake gets locked out

Glen Teflon Sather is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 09:36 PM
  #769
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
The overriding sentiment I got from talking to hockey people today in Toronto about the lockout is...
That today was somehow a good day, even though there were no formal talks. More and more high-ranking people seem to think we'll get a deal done soon, that the month of November is a prime deal-making month. We'll see, but that's the latest
-Dater

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 09:53 PM
  #770
Jaromir Jagr
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
-Dater

So formal talks for days produce nothing...

But not talking at all produces good news? Sorry, the media is all over the place with this. And when you see the media all over the place, that means one thing: They simply don't know and are guessing.

Jaromir Jagr is offline  
Old
11-12-2012, 10:02 PM
  #771
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
So formal talks for days produce nothing...

But not talking at all produces good news? Sorry, the media is all over the place with this. And when you see the media all over the place, that means one thing: They simply don't know and are guessing.
I'm not necessarily disputing you about the reporters' level of knowledge, but I would take Dater's quote to mean that the days of formal talks DID produce meaningful progress...

BrooklynRangersFan is offline  
Old
11-13-2012, 02:30 AM
  #772
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
One could just as easily say:

A) Where is it written that the players are due ever penny on every SLC on time and without risk? Those are subsidiary documents to a master document that has expired and is currently under renegotiation.

or

B) Where is it written that the players are entitled to everything that they had in the previous CBA and should receive something for everything they give up? That was an old deal that is no longer market.

I am on the side of getting a deal done. And, if the sides are truly "within spitting distance" on the rev split and make whole, then it is now incumbent on the league to give on a couple of the contracting issues and the players to concede on a couple, IMO. But the blindly pro-player partisan sentiment that characterizes more than half this board can be very frustrating.
Usually in labor negotiated contracts you do give something to get something. That is how it goes and without an arbitrator in the mix making final decision giving something for nothing in return is called capitulation by the side doing all the giving. What is the point of the players having a union at all if it's only going to capitulate? And without a union to negotiate why would the league need a CBA at all? And without a CBA what kind of restraints would there be on the owners at all? And how could anyone then guarantee that they'd all make a profit? By the way if there were an arbitration process in play here this thing would probably be done.

Anyway your post strikes me as having an anti-labor bias. The inconvenience felt by the fan (public) is the overriding factor--about on the level of the customer is always right (which is some of the happiest horse **** that I've ever heard--a fall back defense for the wealthy in their war against the not wealthy) an attempt to wedge gullible public opinion into thinking they're 'on our side' doing all they can do--but also whatever it takes to keep the plutocrats running the show happy no matter how incompetent they are in doing so. They tinkered with the last CBA which was very favorable to them doing end runs around the spirit of the language of the thing and now they want another custom made ******** free version in which they're guaranteed profitability and it's pretty certain that as soon as the ink is dry they're going to have teams of lawyers looking for loopholes.

The fair way to sort this all out quickly and efficiently is for both sides to work out agreements on things they can agree on and leave the rest to an agreed upon arbitrator(s).


Last edited by eco's bones: 11-13-2012 at 02:36 AM.
eco's bones is offline  
Old
11-13-2012, 06:11 AM
  #773
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,517
vCash: 500
All of the parties were in Toronto last night. Unless Bettman and Daly left last night or are leaving this morning,maybe they will bother to meet. Don Fehr requested the meetings(if any)get moved to Toronto the next time. The PA staff is based in Toronto.

Whenever the NHL returns,no corny slogans please. No Game On(after 1994 lockout). No Thank You Fans(after 2005 lockout). Just play and ****.

Quote:
Sources in Chicago tell me NHL lockout will be settled in time to get skating Dec. 2. And the Winter Classic at Ann Arbor isn't dead.
https://twitter.com/BaichwalABC7/sta...07546802769920

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-13-2012, 06:27 AM
  #774
Xtranova
Registered User
 
Xtranova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 269
vCash: 500
This has been going on too long now... To actually (again) see that a league is frozen, stopped and most likely dropped for a year because of money is just insane. Ok, money runs the league. Obviously. But to see that money has that power is more frightening than it makes sense.

I agree that athletes in different sports makes way more money than they should, but then again... The men in suits are not the ones with the talent and the physical work hours in their bags. It's the players that sacrifice their bodies night in and night out. The suits running the show only has the business sense, closing marketing deals, making money out of other people's talent. So yes, the players make more than enough, but again it is their talent and not everybody has that.

Xtranova is offline  
Old
11-13-2012, 07:43 AM
  #775
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I am on the side of getting a deal done. And, if the sides are truly "within spitting distance" on the rev split and make whole, then it is now incumbent on the league to give on a couple of the contracting issues and the players to concede on a couple, IMO. But the blindly pro-player partisan sentiment that characterizes more than half this board can be very frustrating.
I understand your sentiment. However, I am not saying that players are entitled to everything. The sole thing that I felt that they are "entitled" to is the contracts that they signed. I find it disengenous to rush out to sign a contract and then expect to be given a 20% break from it becuase the other players are going to now be footing the bill.

I am not blindly pro-player. However, THIS lockout is the fault of the owners. If a season is lost, it is ALL on Bettman and the owners. I will also say that I am shocked at the seeming NHL owners feeling that they are entitled to be indemnified from suffering any financial losses and that their tactic is to squeeze the players to get the money back. Do you really see a back and forth? What has the NHL offered as a concession?

True Blue is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.