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islanders - black hawks

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:46 AM
  #1
startainfection
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islanders - black hawks

ok there is a reason that i don't usually post proposals but here it is

to the Blackhawks
Bailey
Nielsen
Andrei Pedan
2013 first
2013 second

to the Isles
Sharp
Carcillo
Jimmy Hayes

the main point of this trade is to get sharp on the isles

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:55 AM
  #2
DKQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
ok there is a reason that i don't usually post proposals but here it is

to the Blackhawks
Bailey
Nielsen
Andrei Pedan
2013 first
2013 second

to the Isles
Sharp
Carcillo
Jimmy Hayes

the main point of this trade is to get sharp on the isles
Strange, I thought it would be to get Pedan on the Hawks...

Probably overpayment from an Islanders standpoint, as much as Sharp is loved by Hawks fans this is the kind of deal that you probably shouldn't say no to

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:00 AM
  #3
startainfection
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Strange, I thought it would be to get Pedan on the Hawks...

Probably overpayment from an Islanders standpoint, as much as Sharp is loved by Hawks fans this is the kind of deal that you probably shouldn't say no to
1. you are kidding right?

2 i think jimmy hayes is going to be an awesome player and the isles will have some of the biggest bottom 9 wingers in the league, i didn't know how high hawks fans are on him and the idea of having sharp on JT's wing sounds awesome and he will also be able to play center if he is needed to, and the isles need more right handed forwards

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:06 AM
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DKQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
1. you are kidding right?

2 i think jimmy hayes is going to be an awesome player and the isles will have some of the biggest bottom 9 wingers in the league, i didn't know how high hawks fans are on him and the idea of having sharp on JT's wing sounds awesome and he will also be able to play center if he is needed to, and the isles need more right handed forwards

Well seeing as you're giving up 2/3 of the Islander's second line, as well as 2 of your potential top 3 centers, I'd say it's a bit of an overpayment to beef up an already productive line.

Also, the 1st round pick the Isles give up is likely to be a lottery pick, in a deep draft. Would you rather have Sharp until he hits UFA, or one of Mackinnon/Jones/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan/Drouin/Shinkaruk/Lazar/Pulock for 7+ years?

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:13 AM
  #5
startainfection
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Well seeing as you're giving up 2/3 of the Islander's second line, as well as 2 of your potential top 3 centers, I'd say it's a bit of an overpayment to beef up an already productive line.

Also, the 1st round pick the Isles give up is likely to be a lottery pick, in a deep draft. Would you rather have Sharp until he hits UFA, or one of Mackinnon/Jones/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan/Drouin/Shinkaruk/Lazar/Pulock for 7+ years?
bailey has ben converted to left wing which the isles have an abundance of, nielsen is going to be moved eventually along with either one of bailey or grabner, I'm not expecting there to be a season and the isles will only have 2 balls in the lottery, we have a handful of legit big d men prospects, and i expect sharp to resign when he hits ufa and carcillo is a 2 year stop gap

so the isles top 2 lines could be either
moulson - tavares - strome
grabner - sharp - okposo
or
moulson - tavares - sharp
grabner - nelson - okposo

the isles would actually have a ton of options for what to do if they got rid of bailey and nielsen and got a legit right handed forward in return

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:19 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
bailey has ben converted to left wing which the isles have an abundance of, nielsen is going to be moved eventually along with either one of bailey or grabner, I'm not expecting there to be a season and the isles will only have 2 balls in the lottery, we have a handful of legit big d men prospects, and i expect sharp to resign when he hits ufa and carcillo is a 2 year stop gap

so the isles top 2 lines could be either
moulson - tavares - strome
grabner - sharp - okposo
or
moulson - tavares - sharp
grabner - nelson - okposo

the isles would actually have a ton of options for what to do if they got rid of bailey and nielsen and got a legit right handed forward in return
I may be mistaken, but don't the Islanders have 3 balls in the lottery since they picked 1st overall 4 years ago and teams only lose a ball if theyve picked 1st within the last 3 years?

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:21 AM
  #7
startainfection
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
I may be mistaken, but don't the Islanders have 3 balls in the lottery since they picked 1st overall 4 years ago and teams only lose a ball if theyve picked 1st within the last 3 years?
i thought it was the last 5

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:31 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
I may be mistaken, but don't the Islanders have 3 balls in the lottery since they picked 1st overall 4 years ago and teams only lose a ball if theyve picked 1st within the last 3 years?
They will have 2 weighted balls. They drafed 1st overall in 2009.

I woudn't expect any team to trade it's first, until after the draft lottery determines the draft order.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:35 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
i thought it was the last 5
Well if there is that extra ball changes it changes everything IMO

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:02 AM
  #10
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If I'm the Hawks I wouldn't do this (and this is coming from a Canucks fan). They are in win now mode and as a result can't give up Sharp who is by far the best player in the deal.

Also, why would the Isles be giving up 1st round picks right now?

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:14 AM
  #11
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doesn't help the Hawks, does not fill needs

Easy to say no to this

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:58 AM
  #12
hlaverty06
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Here's another Q

what would Hawks give for Frans Nielsen? Could fit the 2nd line center needs 47 points last year, or are you guys looking for someone more productive?

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:06 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Here's another Q

what would Hawks give for Frans Nielsen? Could fit the 2nd line center needs 47 points last year, or are you guys looking for someone more productive?
Nielsen was about to become a ufa last season, when the isles got him to sign a team friendly extension, without testing the market.


I know that Isle fans are pleased with the development of Strome/Brock Nelson and think Frans is now expendable,but I question if Snow would trade FN so soon after signing him.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:19 AM
  #14
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Yeah, let's hand kids spots in the lineup. Makes sense.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #15
blinkman360
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I'd honestly package Brock Nelson along with a pick/prospect to bring in a defenseman before I'd even consider moving Frans Nielsen. He's easily one of the best 3rd line centers in the league, and is one of the few veterans on a team full of youngsters.

IMO, Nielsen is going nowhere.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:39 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I'd honestly package Brock Nelson along with a pick/prospect to bring in a defenseman before I'd even consider moving Frans Nielsen. He's easily one of the best 3rd line centers in the league, and is one of the few veterans on a team full of youngsters.

IMO, Nielsen is going nowhere.
Well, at least not for a couple of years. We have to see how Strome and Nelson do in the next two years. They could be regular NHLers sooner than we think and that would mean Nielsen has to go. I don't want to see Nelson traded or moved to wing. He should stay at center.

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:12 AM
  #17
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No thanks, we need a 2nd line C, and this doesn't help that.

It also opens a major hole at 1st line LW.

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11-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Well, at least not for a couple of years. We have to see how Strome and Nelson do in the next two years. They could be regular NHLers sooner than we think and that would mean Nielsen has to go. I don't want to see Nelson traded or moved to wing. He should stay at center.
I think Nelson will eventually be traded, or at least dangled on the trade market. If the Islanders plan on having a future of Tavares-Strome-Nielsen-Cizikas up the middle, I don't see why Snow shouldn't at least explore his options with packaging Nelson away for a defenseman. Especially if a guy like Yandle or Subban or whoever becomes available. Even if you think Nelson can/will become a great player, if you can obtain a quality young player that fits a huge need while not weakening yourself in any other area, IMO you'd be foolish to not at least look into it.

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11-13-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think Nelson will eventually be traded, or at least dangled on the trade market. If the Islanders plan on having a future of Tavares-Strome-Nielsen-Cizikas up the middle, I don't see why Snow shouldn't at least explore his options with packaging Nelson away for a defenseman. Especially if a guy like Yandle or Subban or whoever becomes available. Even if you think Nelson can/will become a great player, if you can obtain a quality young player that fits a huge need while not weakening yourself in any other area, IMO you'd be foolish to not at least look into it.
I agree, that Snow will eventually package some of his young talent for a big trade.

I question how much trade value 20 yr old Brock Nelson has, after 2 yrs of college and only 16 nhl games.

I'd rather wait 1-2 yrs, let the youngsters fight it out for roster spots and build up their value.

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11-13-2012, 12:30 PM
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Bad trade for the Isles.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:30 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I agree, that Snow will eventually package some of his young talent for a big trade.

I question how much trade value 20 yr old Brock Nelson has, after 2 yrs of college and only 16 nhl games.

I'd rather wait 1-2 yrs, let the youngsters fight it out for roster spots and build up their value.
At the end of this season, assuming Nelson finishes at or around a PPG clip as an AHL rookie, I'm not sure how much higher his value could get. IMO he already passed Bjugstad with his play last season, and is entering the Charlie Coyle/Mark Scheifele range of top-center prospects now with his development so far this year. If he holds this pace or even a slightly less one, I don't think it would be a stretch to put him in that category. Those guys have a lot of value, and I don't think Brock is/will be any different come the end of the year.

He'll be a big, skilled 2nd-line/potentially 1st-line center, who would arguably be NHL ready or close to it after coming off a tremendous rookie AHL season. Add a 1st or another solid prospect to that and I wouldn't be surprised if that package brings back an in-his-prime top-3 defenseman.

I suppose we could let him get some NHL action first to see if his value could get even higher, but if he struggles his value could end up taking a hit.

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11-13-2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
At the end of this season, assuming Nelson finishes at or around a PPG clip as an AHL rookie, I'm not sure how much higher his value could get. IMO he already passed Bjugstad with his play last season, and is entering the Charlie Coyle/Mark Scheifele range of top-center prospects now with his development so far this year. If he holds this pace or even a slightly less one, I don't think it would be a stretch to put him in that category. Those guys have a lot of value, and I don't think Brock is/will be any different come the end of the year.

He'll be a big, skilled 2nd-line/potentially 1st-line center, who would arguably be NHL ready or close to it after coming off a tremendous rookie AHL season. Add a 1st or another solid prospect to that and I wouldn't be surprised if that package brings back an in-his-prime top-3 defenseman.

I suppose we could let him get some NHL action first to see if his value could get even higher, but if he struggles his value could end up taking a hit.

I'd think Nelson's value would be higher, if he follows up a strong AHL season, with solid NHL play.

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11-13-2012, 01:06 PM
  #23
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i proposed this trade because i am confident in at least one of nelson or strome to be ready by next season

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11-13-2012, 01:07 PM
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Islanders are in no position to be giving up first rounders.

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11-13-2012, 01:09 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I'd think Nelson's value would be higher, if he follows up a strong AHL season, with solid NHL play.
Of course it would, but how much higher? Enough to warrant the risk of seeing his value drop if he struggles? If his value at the end of this year is high enough to bring back a Keith Yandle when packaged with a first, I'm pretty sure I'd pull the trigger. If he improves his value with NHL play, maybe that trade becomes Nelson and a 2nd instead of Nelson and a 1st. If he doesn't and his value takes a hit, that trade would probably become Nelson, Kabanov and a 1st. I'd rather just play it safe and make the deal before he gets NHL time. At this point, I'd be completely fine with this team trading away a 1st if they need to.

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