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Sakic/Crosby/Stamkos vs Jagr/Forsberg/OV

View Poll Results: Which Trio
Sakic/Crosby/Stamkos 102 56.35%
Jagr/Forsberg/OV 75 41.44%
Even 4 2.21%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:53 AM
  #51
I Hate Chris Butler
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Originally Posted by Bure All Day View Post
Say what you want, he never got over 30 goals in his entire career... Not saying goals are everything, but 65 goals is just out of that league
Not only that, but to say Jagr was second best is ludicrous.

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:02 AM
  #52
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Not only that, but to say Jagr was second best is ludicrous.
Agreed. There is virtually zero claim to be made that Jagr would NOT be the best of this bunch. He has Peak/Prime/Career all better than everyone else. The guy would have multiple Hart Trophys without the best goaltender peak.

Forsberg and Crosby both get highly overrated in this thread. How the hell is Forsberg or Crosby for that matter, better than Jagr. Jaromir had a peak that lasted longer than Crosby's career so far.

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:46 AM
  #53
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Im not going to choose between these groups, but lol@the Canadian bias excuse, there isnt any. I think nowadays its become so trendy to hate all Canadian players at HF.And i am European myself.

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:54 AM
  #54
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Option 2, easily.

Not really sure how option 1 is winning.


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Old
11-13-2012, 05:01 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Option 2, easily.

Not really sure how option 1 is winning.

Yeah I voted option 1 at the start, but it's only cause Sakic got inducted to the HHOF so I was watching a bunch of his stuff and it made my unrational

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:25 AM
  #56
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Im not going to choose between these groups, but lol@the Canadian bias excuse, there isnt any. I think nowadays its become so trendy to hate all Canadian players at HF.And i am European myself.
Ok, you might be right. There probably is no Canadian bias here. At least no more than there is European bias.

But i definitely feel that at their peak the group 2 is better. I can't find a single way to justify the group Sakic over group Jagr. If talking about peak/prime.

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:46 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
At their peak?
Jagr
Crosby
Ov
Sakic
Forsberg
Stamkos

Option 2
Are you high?



Last edited by Nordic*: 11-13-2012 at 06:51 AM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 09:13 AM
  #58
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Sakic-Crosby and Stamkos

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:16 AM
  #59
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It's been like five days since that Forsberg video was posted. The longest streak in HF history.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:30 AM
  #60
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Jagr's the best DPE or later forward and I don't think there's really any argument... maybe if Lemieux stayed healthy (outside chance to Lindros/Forsberg if they stayed healthy)...

Really though I consider their peaks (we take them at their peaks right? considering Stamkos has only played 4 years and crosby/stamkos/maybe OV haven't necessarily ended their primes yet) to be in this order:

Jagr>Crosby=Ovechkin>Sakic=Forsberg>=Stamkos

Jagr doesn't need any explanation.

Crosby has shown flashes of brilliance in non-full seasons, OV had his incredible 65 goal season, I'll just give them a tie for now.

Forsberg was the best playmaker of the last bunch and the most physical, Stamkos the best goalscorer. Sakic could do both well (54-64-118 in 00-01).

Have to go with Jagr/OV/Forsberg here at their peaks. If we take OV to be equal (or even slightly lesser) to Crosby, and Forsberg to be about equal (or again, even slightly lesser) to Sakic, Jagr just blows away Stamkos.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:45 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
Crosby= Best playmaker in then NHL
Stamkos= Best goal scorer in the NHL
Sakic= One of the game's all time greats

Trio= Amazingly successful
Ill raise you with

Jagr = One of the alltime greats (more so than Sakic)
Forsberg = Better playmaker than Crosby
Ovi = Likes his game more than S-s-s-s-stamkos

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:49 AM
  #62
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How is option 1 winning by so much?

IMO its very close, but if you go by prime/peak, it's option 2.
Canadians.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:56 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JAS 39 Gripen View Post
Canadians.
Biggest reason I picked Sakic/Crosby/Stamkos is because having a elite 1-2 punch down the middle is better then just one stacked line.

xxx - Sakic - Stamkos
xxx - Crosby - xxx

OR

Jagr - Forsberg - Ovechkin

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #64
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Assuming we get them at their best, for me, it's clearly Jagr/Forsberg/OV. By clearly I am not saying it isn't close, but I don't see much of a case for the other trio.

Jagr is the best player of both groups.
Between Sakic, Forsberg, Crosby and OV there are arguments for anyone being the best. The problem is that you can't bash Forsberg for being injury-plagued without doing the same to Crosby. And OVs trophy case is really hard to overlook, even if he doesn't play like 2009 anymore (but we are talking best, not right now, otherwise Crosby would have a really hard time here). So until now Stamkos comes in last - which is by no means a knock on him considering who he is up against; also he can climb up this list if he continues his play from last season.

In the end it comes down to: Jagr is the best player, Stamkos the least best (not saying worst ); but how can Sakic and Crosby make up this gap against Forsberg and OV? I just don't see it. Really surprised by the voting, I expected something like a 65-35 in favor of the Jagr/Forsberg/OV-trio.
Seems like I have to reconsider my thoughts here, I can't simply tell the majority of 100 posters they are wrong. And playing the Canadian bias-card might just be a bit too simplistic.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:08 AM
  #65
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Forsberg is overrated. like another guy said in another thread, when comparing all-time greats goal scoring should be fair game. best season for Forsberg was 30 G, a guy like Crosby who he is often compared to scored 32 G in half of a season. though, like I said before I'd pick group #2 because of Jagr.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:18 PM
  #66
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Forsberg is overrated. like another guy said in another thread, when comparing all-time greats goal scoring should be fair game. best season for Forsberg was 30 G, a guy like Crosby who he is often compared to scored 32 G in half of a season. though, like I said before I'd pick group #2 because of Jagr.
Why would goal scoring be fair game when comparing a playmaker to a goal scorer?

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:25 PM
  #67
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I thought it over for a day and went with Crosby/Stammer/Sakic. I know it's stupid, but I feel like the playmaking / scoring abilities of Crosby and Sakic would murder it with Stammer in the mix. With the Jagr/Forsberg/Ovi, I just see a bunch of guys waiting to score and little playing making going on. I just feel like option 1 would fit together better than option 2, even if the individual pieces are better in option 2 (see Gestalt theory on the sum of the parts =/= the whole).

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:46 PM
  #68
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I thought it over for a day and went with Crosby/Stammer/Sakic. I know it's stupid, but I feel like the playmaking / scoring abilities of Crosby and Sakic would murder it with Stammer in the mix. With the Jagr/Forsberg/Ovi, I just see a bunch of guys waiting to score and little playing making going on. I just feel like option 1 would fit together better than option 2, even if the individual pieces are better in option 2 (see Gestalt theory on the sum of the parts =/= the whole).
Dude, what?

You would have Jagr AND Forsberg at the same time on the ice and you are concerned about playmaking? Jagr and Forsberg? I don't get it. Forsberg and Jagr have the best playmaking skills of that group.

Sure Jagr can score but he is also a wizard with the puck and has 9+60 assist seasons with 2 times over 80.

Forsberg also has one +80 assist season and his A/G is 0.9 for his career.

Those are kind of sick numbers don't you think?

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11-13-2012, 01:55 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Spinkis View Post
Why would goal scoring be fair game when comparing a playmaker to a goal scorer?
because it's not like Forsberg is blowing Crosby, Sakic or Jagr out of the water when it comes to playmaking either... how is that even a question?

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11-13-2012, 02:11 PM
  #70
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option 2 and i cant believe option 1 is winning. well i guess this is a north american board

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:27 PM
  #71
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Jagr, Forsberg and Ovechkin, I'm really surprised they're not winning.

Jagr
Crosby
Forsberg
Ovechkin
Sakic
Stamkos

1, 3 and 4 are better than 2, 5 and 6.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #72
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I'm gonna go with the best player on that list at his peak.

Forsberg; followed by second best: Jagr.

Option 2, easily.

Option 2 would out muscle and destroy option 1.
Over the last few years I've been quietly watching Forsberg surpass better players on these boards, sort of like Cartman's Trapper Keeper. Recently having vanquished Fedorov (and Sakic, the Avs ranking that dare not speak its name), he's now overtaking Jagr. At this pace I'm sure it's just a matter of time (six months, maybe a year) before someone here honestly believes he's better than Lemieux and Gretzky. So in the interest of providing some kind of balance to the universe, I'm going to have to rank Forsberg last out of the six players.

Jagr
Crosby
Sakic 1A / OV 1B
Stamkos
Forsberg

(Remember, it's all about balance.)

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:10 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by mobilus View Post
Over the last few years I've been quietly watching Forsberg surpass better players on these boards, sort of like Cartman's Trapper Keeper. Recently having vanquished Fedorov (and Sakic, the Avs ranking that dare not speak its name), he's now overtaking Jagr. At this pace I'm sure it's just a matter of time (six months, maybe a year) before someone here honestly believes he's better than Lemieux and Gretzky. So in the interest of providing some kind of balance to the universe, I'm going to have to rank Forsberg last out of the six players.

Jagr
Crosby
Sakic 1A / OV 1B
Stamkos
Forsberg

(Remember, it's all about balance.)
You are doing a great service. Thank you.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:55 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by mobilus View Post
Over the last few years I've been quietly watching Forsberg surpass better players on these boards, sort of like Cartman's Trapper Keeper. Recently having vanquished Fedorov (and Sakic, the Avs ranking that dare not speak its name), he's now overtaking Jagr. At this pace I'm sure it's just a matter of time (six months, maybe a year) before someone here honestly believes he's better than Lemieux and Gretzky. So in the interest of providing some kind of balance to the universe, I'm going to have to rank Forsberg last out of the six players.

Jagr
Crosby
Sakic 1A / OV 1B
Stamkos
Forsberg

(Remember, it's all about balance.)
Those really aren't new things. I never heard anyone consider Fedorov a better player than Forsberg from '96-97 on, and Sakic and Forsberg tended to alternate better seasons, but in general, in their overlapping primes, many people, including Avs fans, thought Forsberg was the better player. There was also some discussion at the time as to whether Forsberg was better than Jagr, but it was a much smaller faction and tended to focus mainly on Forsberg and the Avs playoff success and Jagr's perceived attitude problems making him "not a winner".

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:57 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilus View Post
Over the last few years I've been quietly watching Forsberg surpass better players on these boards, sort of like Cartman's Trapper Keeper. Recently having vanquished Fedorov (and Sakic, the Avs ranking that dare not speak its name), he's now overtaking Jagr. At this pace I'm sure it's just a matter of time (six months, maybe a year) before someone here honestly believes he's better than Lemieux and Gretzky. So in the interest of providing some kind of balance to the universe, I'm going to have to rank Forsberg last out of the six players.

Jagr
Crosby
Sakic 1A / OV 1B
Stamkos
Forsberg

(Remember, it's all about balance.)
Over the past few years, Ive constantly read comments on how Forsberg is overrated on this board, when in fact its the other way around. Looking at the complete package, how can you list him last? "He didnt score goals!" - look up his playoff resume.


If I had to choose, why would I choose a one dimensional Stamkos over two of the most dominant players ever (jagr n forsberg)?

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