HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Ott - L.A

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-09-2012, 09:47 PM
  #26
Milan the God*
king karlsson
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,806
vCash: 860
No way.

I've seen Toffoli play a lot. It's a short drive and most 67's games are available on TV in Ottawa. I think Stone is a much better prospect at this point. That's not a shot at Toffoli, but you need to watch Stone to see what he can do in the offensive zone.

Milan the God* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 10:11 PM
  #27
HavlatMach9
Registered User
 
HavlatMach9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,441
vCash: 500
A player can become highly touted by their respective fan base after he's inserted into the final games of a playoffs series with the intent to put him on the top line, having never played a single NHL game in his life.

HavlatMach9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 10:31 PM
  #28
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Uh no, in that post, I said that we have no interest in messing with our wings whatsoever, depth included, unless there was an upgrade available at the NHL level, and no we have no expectation of upgrading at the position right now, this topic wasn't brought up by Kings fans, but Ottawa fans that like Prince and the 67's.

I am not going to argue over prospect values and crystal balls, especially when there is a notion that Stone is better than Zibanejad and everyone else on the Ottawa depth chart. That's clearly a hornet's nest that nobody rational would walk into.

The only thing I am saying is that Lombardi wouldn't part with Toffoli unless there was an improvement to be made on the NHL roster today. He has done everything asked of him and more, he hasn't performed poorly in any way, shape, or form, and that means something to the Kings. That's it.

It's a deal that doesn't work or interest either team. There should be no offense had by either party.


So there isn't a single prospect in the world you would trade Toffoli for?


Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
A player can become highly touted by their respective fan base after he's inserted into the final games of a playoffs series with the intent to put him on the top line, having never played a single NHL game in his life.
and he's accomplished more than Toffoli. See post #12

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 10:45 PM
  #29
Telos
Moderator
In Dean We Trust
 
Telos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, Nv.
Country: United States
Posts: 26,149
vCash: 3578
Send a message via ICQ to Telos Send a message via AIM to Telos Send a message via MSN to Telos Send a message via Yahoo to Telos
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post


So there isn't a single prospect in the world you would trade Toffoli for?
Sure, they are just all much better than Stone. It is no offence to Stone, but to say that 'my guy will score more points and is better because of some stuff I saw him do in non-pro hockey' means relatively nothing. Your guy may be better, but that is not how the Kings draft. They are looking for fit, character, and good teammates first and foremost.

Toffoli was drafted for a specific reason and jettisoning him for someone who is not a sure thing and may not share his same character and role is nonsense for LA. Lombardi wouldn't send off Toffoli, before we have even gotten a good sample from him at the pro level, so soon after his draft year, and after he has excelled above and beyond expectations without there being a significant reason to do so that helps the team immediately.

Stone is not a player that fits that description. He's a good player, and will likely go on to do great things, but right now he isn't enough to sell out our farm locker room and start making deals on a whim based on world junior selections, non-pro stats, and a handful sample size in the AHL.

I get that you guys meticulously scanned him every day while he was on the 67's, but so did our scouts and there is more to it than goals and points, especially within the Kings organization. The Kings are very happy with Toffoli, we get lots of media on him, and there is no reason for a swap.

__________________

"I think part of his game is hes over aggressive at times, which I like. Well tame that. Id rather tame a lion than paint stripes on the kitty cat." - Dean Lombardi discussing Brayden McNabb
Telos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 11:02 PM
  #30
MAK19
FreeWierciochBanAndy
 
MAK19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Madrid
Posts: 13,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Sure, they are just all much better than Stone. It is no offence to Stone, but to say that 'my guy will score more points and is better because of some stuff I saw him do in non-pro hockey' means relatively nothing. Your guy may be better, but that is not how the Kings draft. They are looking for fit, character, and good teammates first and foremost.

Toffoli was drafted for a specific reason and jettisoning him for someone who is not a sure thing and may not share his same character and role is nonsense for LA. Lombardi wouldn't send off Toffoli, before we have even gotten a good sample from him at the pro level, so soon after his draft year, and after he has excelled above and beyond expectations without there being a significant reason to do so that helps the team immediately.

Stone is not a player that fits that description. He's a good player, and will likely go on to do great things, but right now he isn't enough to sell out our farm locker room and start making deals on a whim based on world junior selections, non-pro stats, and a handful sample size in the AHL.

I get that you guys meticulously scanned him every day while he was on the 67's, but so did our scouts and there is more to it than goals and points, especially within the Kings organization. The Kings are very happy with Toffoli, we get lots of media on him, and there is no reason for a swap.
If it were about just goals and points, Toffoli actually dropped in the draft. He was available where he has because of the doubts that his game will translate to the NHL. He's probably a nice guy but I'm sure the Kings took him because of his offensive talent, not his character.

Stone has more accomplishments up until now - and is more of a sure thing at the pro level. Toffoli being passed over for Team Canada is very telling - he can feast on easy competition, but when facing strong, fast and skilled players, he is less effective.

You're talking like Stone is a locker room cancer... he's worked extremely hard on his skating... he's improved SO much since being drafted. He's exactly the type of player you're describing.

MAK19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-09-2012, 11:19 PM
  #31
Telos
Moderator
In Dean We Trust
 
Telos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, Nv.
Country: United States
Posts: 26,149
vCash: 3578
Send a message via ICQ to Telos Send a message via AIM to Telos Send a message via MSN to Telos Send a message via Yahoo to Telos
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
If it were about just goals and points, Toffoli actually dropped in the draft. He was available where he has because of the doubts that his game will translate to the NHL. He's probably a nice guy but I'm sure the Kings took him because of his offensive talent, not his character.

Stone has more accomplishments up until now - and is more of a sure thing at the pro level. Toffoli being passed over for Team Canada is very telling - he can feast on easy competition, but when facing strong, fast and skilled players, he is less effective.

You're talking like Stone is a locker room cancer... he's worked extremely hard on his skating... he's improved SO much since being drafted. He's exactly the type of player you're describing.
I am not saying Stone is a cancer, but your words ring true about lots of players after their draft. The Kings definitely didn't overlook Toffoli's offensive ability, but they took him because of his character, and more specifically his work ethic. That is what Lombardi is all about. Toffoli has been working extremely hard too and is fitting in well in Manchester, Hextall, Evans, and Morris have been pretty glowing talking about him.

A lot of players have been passed over World Juniors, and exalting non-pro stats are not really good indicators. I am sure if Stone lives up to his billing that you guys have given him, then teams will be knocking down your doors to get him, but LA isn't going to swap players that have lived up to their promises and agreements without there being a clear and definable upgrade.

You are treating it as if we are comparing Foligno to Michalek. There is a lot of development ahead and there are question marks on both sides of the aisle. The Kings aren't going to trade away Toffoli on a whim, out of no where, for another question mark, when there is no reason whatsoever to do so. A handful of AHL games and some non-pro stats aren't going to change that. Only scout assessments and future pro performance will dictate what is in store for either player.

Quote:
What The Kings Say About Tyler:
Mike Futa, the Kings’ Director of Amateur Scouting along with Mark Yannetti, has followed Tyler since he was a Bantam-age player (14 years old) playing with the Jr. Canadians. Says Futa: “Tyler has scored at all levels. He is a natural at finding the scoring areas and at getting his shot off. Both Mark and Jack Ferreira, our club’s special assistant to the general manager, say that Tyler is ‘off the charts’ with the puck.” Futa also commented on Tyler’s work since being drafted. “Tyler has taken huge strides to become an NHL player both on and off the ice. At one time you couldn’t get him to take his shirt off. Now you can’t get him to put one on. That shows his commitment to his off-season training.”
They've been scouting him since he was 14, and know him very well. He's developed a strong relationship with Kings staff and has done everything asked of him. He will not be dealt unless there is a definitive trade on the table that guarantees to make the team better. A prospect swap is the most unlikely possible scenario to consider... It is just irrational to think of that: A) someone is going to swap us a prospect that is clearly that much better straight up or via package, B) It would involve Toffoli and a forward, when there is no reason to deal him and he is performing very well i.e. not a shake things up type of trade with multiple struggling prospects, and we are full up on defensemen so it would HAVE to be another forward.

I don't see why you are pushing the issue when you don't want to deal Stone. It has nothing to do about his abilities or who is better. Toffoli is a good fit for LA, and there is more involved than just statistics. This deal would not be considered by either side and is quite irrelevant. There should be no harm, no foul.


Last edited by Telos: 11-09-2012 at 11:27 PM.
Telos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 04:14 PM
  #32
DontgoZiggy
Registered User
 
DontgoZiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 1,190
vCash: 500
No thanks, I'd rather keep Toffoli, I just don't see the incentive for moving our best prospect in an area of weakness in the organisation.

DontgoZiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 05:58 PM
  #33
KingKopitar11*
Drew Doughty Eh?
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: staples center
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 16,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
If it were about just goals and points, Toffoli actually dropped in the draft. He was available where he has because of the doubts that his game will translate to the NHL. He's probably a nice guy but I'm sure the Kings took him because of his offensive talent, not his character.

Stone has more accomplishments up until now - and is more of a sure thing at the pro level. Toffoli being passed over for Team Canada is very telling - he can feast on easy competition, but when facing strong, fast and skilled players, he is less effective.

You're talking like Stone is a locker room cancer... he's worked extremely hard on his skating... he's improved SO much since being drafted. He's exactly the type of player you're describing.
You're missing the point obviously. Toffoli is the right fit for the team skills aren't the only attributes that matter. Toffoli is already a great fit and there's No reason to swap just going out on a limb basis. It's not a substantial improvement then no need for it. We like him and he's good. Stones not our guy.

KingKopitar11* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 06:54 PM
  #34
bert
Registered User
 
bert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Toffoli is the Kings' best prospect. No chance of this happening.
Great but Stones a better prospect, the sens wouldnt make this deal.

bert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 07:10 PM
  #35
Swedish Mafia
Baby got Backstrom
 
Swedish Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 256
vCash: 50
It seems like a pretty lateral move for both sides.

Swedish Mafia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2012, 09:28 PM
  #36
Marvelous Manked
Part Time Drag Queen
 
Marvelous Manked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sudbury/Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,240
vCash: 50
I'm going to be completely honest.

I don't think Tyler Toffoli will be a successful NHL player. I've watched him play more than 150 times in my life, and he's very similar to what I've seen from Stone, except Toffoli is much lazier, one of the laziest players I've ever seen. I loved what he did for my favourite 67s, I just don't think he'll be successful.

Just my opinion.

Marvelous Manked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 01:50 PM
  #37
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,525
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
ahhhh

the usual "we have the way better propect but offering him generously to you"
Thank you for that thread Mother Theresa

Kurrilino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 05:00 PM
  #38
stempniaksen
Alright, I'm mad
 
stempniaksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,447
vCash: 500
I'm not huge on Toffoli for a handful of reasons, and while I think he may have more natural talent than Stone, I think Stone is in a better position to reach that potential and become a successful NHL player. I fully understand LA not wanting to move Toffoli after investing so heavily in him, but I think Stone is the better prospect.

stempniaksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 05:30 PM
  #39
Leave Spezza Alone
melnyk pls
 
Leave Spezza Alone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 6,289
vCash: 50
Petersson for Hickey?

Leave Spezza Alone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 06:45 PM
  #40
kingsofLA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Great NW
Country: United States
Posts: 491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
Petersson for Hickey?
We need some big d men like Gryba. That would be more along the player LA would look for, but i might be off on both teams how they value their players

kingsofLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 08:41 PM
  #41
LaFan1967
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 454
vCash: 500
Hockey's Future Fall Ranking top 50

5 ) Mika Zibanejad Ottawa Senators

40 ) Jakob Silfverberg Ottawa Senators

45 ) Tyler Toffoli Los Angeles Kings

46 ) Robin Lehner Ottawa Senators


Depth chart for the Ottawa Senators

Mika Zibanejad
Jakob Silfverberg
Robin Lehner
Stefan Noesen
Cody Ceci
Mark Stone

Depth chart for Los Angeles Kings

Tyler Toffoli
Andrei Loktionov
Tanner Pearson
Derek Forbort
Jake Muzzin
Linden Vey
Nick Shore
Dwight King
Jordan Nolan

From LA's point of view it's a lateral move at best or a slight downgrade, no reason
for LA to do this.

Closer trade value would be Silfverberg for Toffoli.

LaFan1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2012, 09:30 PM
  #42
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,204
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFan1967 View Post

Closer trade value would be Silfverberg for Toffoli.
And yet still not even close.

As for the original deal, its pretty 1 sided. Stone > Toffoli easily.

Benny FTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-13-2012, 05:58 AM
  #43
The Fuhr
Registered User
 
The Fuhr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hamilton,Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,490
vCash: 500
Stone is the best prospect in the Sens organization... If not for where hex was drafted he would be considered a top five prospect in hockey

The Fuhr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-13-2012, 07:17 AM
  #44
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,239
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFan1967 View Post
Hockey's Future Fall Ranking top 50

5 ) Mika Zibanejad Ottawa Senators

40 ) Jakob Silfverberg Ottawa Senators

45 ) Tyler Toffoli Los Angeles Kings

46 ) Robin Lehner Ottawa Senators


Depth chart for the Ottawa Senators

Mika Zibanejad
Jakob Silfverberg
Robin Lehner
Stefan Noesen
Cody Ceci
Mark Stone

Depth chart for Los Angeles Kings

Tyler Toffoli
Andrei Loktionov
Tanner Pearson
Derek Forbort
Jake Muzzin
Linden Vey
Nick Shore
Dwight King
Jordan Nolan

From LA's point of view it's a lateral move at best or a slight downgrade, no reason for LA to do this.

Closer trade value would be Silfverberg for Toffoli.
I can assure you than Zbad, Stone and Silverberg are 1,2 and 3 in no particular order ahead of Noesen and Ceci. Lehner is our star prospect goalie, he should not be in the discussion since we are talking about forwards

Those 3, no one knows who will be the best NHL player right now.

It's only 1 play but see the pass that Stone made vs Rangers in last year playoff in his first game ever in the NHL. the defenseman was Ryan McDonagh. Stone played only 8 min in his only NHL game so far.



Last edited by guyzeur: 11-13-2012 at 10:56 AM.
guyzeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-13-2012, 07:59 AM
  #45
Leave Spezza Alone
melnyk pls
 
Leave Spezza Alone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 6,289
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsofLA View Post
We need some big d men like Gryba. That would be more along the player LA would look for, but i might be off on both teams how they value their players
Gryba for Hickey? I'm game.

Leave Spezza Alone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-14-2012, 09:41 PM
  #46
markisonfire
Registered User
 
markisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 3,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
And yet still not even close.

As for the original deal, its pretty 1 sided. Stone > Toffoli easily.
Ah, thanks for your infinite wisdom, then. Any other players you'd like to gift us as well?

markisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-14-2012, 10:17 PM
  #47
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,204
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Ah, thanks for your infinite wisdom, then. Any other players you'd like to gift us as well?
I didn't give any of my wisdom but your welcome.

Benny FTW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-14-2012, 10:26 PM
  #48
Dionysus
Registered User
 
Dionysus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Around the bend
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,169
vCash: 50
Prospect for prospect trade proposals always end in flaming. Teams just don't do these kinds of trades. They invest to much in player development to trade a good prospect for another before they have had a shot in the NHL.

Dionysus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-14-2012, 10:27 PM
  #49
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,793
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Below View Post
Stone is the best prospect in the Sens organization... If not for where hex was drafted he would be considered a top five prospect in hockey
I know I shouldn't do this but...

Which of:

Yakupov
Tarasenko
Huberdeau
Hamilton
Granlund

Wouldn't any sane Sens fan prefer over Stone?

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-14-2012, 10:32 PM
  #50
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 21,263
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFan1967 View Post
Hockey's Future Fall Ranking top 50

5 ) Mika Zibanejad Ottawa Senators

40 ) Jakob Silfverberg Ottawa Senators

45 ) Tyler Toffoli Los Angeles Kings

46 ) Robin Lehner Ottawa Senators


Depth chart for the Ottawa Senators

Mika Zibanejad
Jakob Silfverberg
Robin Lehner
Stefan Noesen
Cody Ceci
Mark Stone

Depth chart for Los Angeles Kings

Tyler Toffoli
Andrei Loktionov
Tanner Pearson
Derek Forbort
Jake Muzzin
Linden Vey
Nick Shore
Dwight King
Jordan Nolan
Loooool, depth chart doesn't mean ****. I'm not trying to troll but if LA had Ottawa's prospects they'd all be ahead of Toffoli.

Zibanejad
Silfverberg
Lehner
Ceci
Stone
Noesen
Toffoli

ReginKarlssonLehner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.