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We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:33 AM
  #26
SidTheKid8787
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
That SOME being Mark Spector.
I don't think the NHL is worried about what Mark Spector thinks.
Not just Spector. Even Bob Mackenzie is scratching his head as to why the owners told the PA they will not budge on their "contracting rights" demands.

The way i look at it is the owners (or the ones that have a say atleast) were insulted the PA didn't accept the new "make whole" solution so they retaliate by saying thier position on contract rights is unmoveable.

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11-13-2012, 05:54 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Probably B.S. but what the hey, we need some shred of positive news.
https://twitter.com/BaichwalABC7/sta...07546802769920


He's just a local sports anchor in Chicago, so I'm not sure how much merit or stock should be put into what he is reporting. Perhaps his source is the Ghost of Bill Wirtz.
The 2013-14 WC in Ann Arbor isn't dead I suppose; 2012-13 is about as dead as you can get without dying, becoming a zombie, and then getting killed again.

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11-13-2012, 06:18 AM
  #28
5 Minute Major
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I just don't buy they are as close or it is as simple as it seems to getting a deal done. Seems if a deal could be struck that easily they would be in some serious negotiations right now instead of having none scheduled.

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:32 AM
  #29
SidTheKid8787
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
I just don't buy they are as close or it is as simple as it seems to getting a deal done. Seems if a deal could be struck that easily they would be in some serious negotiations right now instead of having none scheduled.
I'd say they are close to real negotiations and bargaining more so than getting a deal done BUT i will say these major hurdles that are left, if they get over one, the rest should be jumped over quickly.


Last edited by SidTheKid8787: 11-13-2012 at 06:38 AM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 06:39 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
I'd say they are close to real negotiations and bargaining more so than getting a deal done BUT i will say these major hurdles that are left, if they get over one, the rest are jumped over quickly.
Considering the nhlpa still wants a de-linked cap and guaranteed raises built in to their %, those hurdles are more like walls.

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11-13-2012, 06:42 AM
  #31
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I just want to cheer for strangers and get emotional about a corporate logo again. And give them my money for the privilege to do so. Somehow it's more difficult to do than it looks.

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:18 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
Considering the nhlpa still wants a de-linked cap and guaranteed raises built in to their %, those hurdles are more like walls.
I keep seeing this but I'm not 100% sure what it means. The PA wants to set what the cap will be for the life of the CBA, and not have it linked to revenues? Isin't this a shaky bet since revenues might grow more than they are projecting? Like, if they had set the cap at $45 million for the life of the last CBA or something, by the end that would have been a bad deal for the players.

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11-13-2012, 07:31 AM
  #33
Brian28
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
I keep seeing this but I'm not 100% sure what it means. The PA wants to set what the cap will be for the life of the CBA, and not have it linked to revenues? Isin't this a shaky bet since revenues might grow more than they are projecting? Like, if they had set the cap at $45 million for the life of the last CBA or something, by the end that would have been a bad deal for the players.
There is a very real chance growth will not meet let alone exceed the NHLPA's formula. That creates a large potential problem for the owners and could easily push the players actual earnings above the linked amount...hence why Fehr continues to push for full payment of existing contracts and a guaranteed raise.

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:34 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kopistar View Post
I heard a radio host on AM 570 today say that Staples Center along with other arenas has been notified to be ready to get the ice going again soon.


I fully expect to see hockey again at some point in December
If you hadn't said this, I wouldn't have mentioned the following. But...

On November 2, the Hurricanes announced an open skate and Checkers (AHL) viewing party for STH and other partners, to be held this weekend. In order to prepare, they laid down the ice along with logos and such. So in theory, they are now ready to play games.

Another way to look at it is that the teams were aware all along that they needed to lay down ice and logos by now, so this is not telling us anything. But if you're in to subtle signals that the orgs are preparing for a breakthrough...

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:50 AM
  #35
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Love the thread title, so thanks for that. The song keeps running through my head and for a change that's not an annoying thing. Unlike the lockout in general. Blech.

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:54 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by aceface33 View Post
I keep seeing this but I'm not 100% sure what it means. The PA wants to set what the cap will be for the life of the CBA, and not have it linked to revenues? Isin't this a shaky bet since revenues might grow more than they are projecting? Like, if they had set the cap at $45 million for the life of the last CBA or something, by the end that would have been a bad deal for the players.
aceface, I think the larger issue for the owners is that in the players delinked proposal, the players get paid more in Year 1 and Year 2 than they did last year. Owners want immediate relief in Year 1. If I were a member of the NHL's negotiating committee, I'd draw up something like below, with a delinked share calculated at 50% of projected HRR, using a 5% growth factor both sides love to play with. No matter what revenues are, players recieve the amount in column 3.

YearProjected HRRDelinked Share
1 3.465 B 1.733 B (Prorated)
2 3.638 B 1.819 B
3 3.820 B 1.910 B
4 4.011 B 2.006 B
5 4.212 B 2.106 B
6 4.422 B 2.211 B
7 4.643 B 2.322 B

Couple that with a Make Whole Fund in which at the end of every season for contracts signed prior to the expiration of the last CBA, the difference between what the player would have earned through 57% of actual HRR and the monies paid to that player are settled out of the owners pocket (if money is actually owed).

I look forward to both pro-player and pro-owner fans uniting as one against this idea


Last edited by Crease: 11-13-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 07:56 AM
  #37
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"Time for Gary Bettman, Donald Fehr to walk away from NHL labor talks"

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...-talks/1261233

"These blockheads are about to take a sport that barely registers in this country anyway, pack it into a crate and chuck it over a cliff. For the first time since this NHL lockout started 59 days ago, it really does feel like the season is in jeopardy."

"The NFL hasn't lost a game to a labor dispute in the past 20 years. The NBA has lost 504.

Meantime, Major League Baseball has lost 938 games in addition to the 1994 postseason all while Fehr was running the MLB players' union. And, no sport has lost more games over the past 20 years than the NHL an incredible 1,698, all on Bettman's watch.

How can we trust that the two men half responsible for the biggest labor messes in North American sports over the past two decades are the right negotiators to hammer out this deal?"

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:17 AM
  #38
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a deal will be struck by saturday the latest

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:20 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But the nhlpa keep telling the owners what to do with their money (increased revenue sharing).
Why can't the owners play that right back at them?
well, to be fair, the players aren't currently the one's that've managed their financial situation into an untenable abyss, that requires shutting down their league. At this point, getting advice from the NHL on finances would be hilarious. 7 years ago, I was under the impression that the NHL needed to scrap a season to get this league on solid footing. Turns out, that season was thrown away for a very temporary band-aid. Not exactly reassuring that this CBA is going to be the stabilizing force they (Bettman) keep telling us it will.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by whskybarJM View Post
a deal will be struck by saturday the latest
I have a whiteboard at my desk at work. On it is a lockout day tracker, and a little smiley/frownie face depending on how the negotiations are perceived to be going.

Beside the big number are some picks for "Lockout Length" by various people. There's a 300 up there, a 265, a 31 (), and mine: 69 Days.

This would put us at November 23. Next Friday. Which is exactly when I expect this to get finished. So you're off by basically a week, but don't worry: nobody knows the NHL like the Paulster.

NHL will cave and let go of their contract stuff in exchange for 50/50. They have to. Players aren't going anywhere, and there's apparently way more pressure by the owners to get this done than I originally thought. Fehr's about to make Bettman his ***** - you just watch.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:24 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by whskybarJM View Post
a deal will be struck by saturday the latest
Deal to cancel the season?

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:32 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BruinsFan64 View Post
Deal to cancel the season?
nope, a deal to get the season started

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:36 AM
  #43
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nope, a deal to get the season started
I don't know. Hard to see it at this point. I saw the story about being able to hammer out a deal quickly once they reach some sort of agreement but they are not even scheduled to talk this week are they?

It's too bad, I think we are going to lose hockey for the 2012 - 2013 season.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:39 AM
  #44
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More nonsense that salaries have doubled.

In 2003-04, NHL paid out 1.6b to players, in 2011-12, they paid out slightly less than 1.9b.

That's not double. I don't care about math spinning, this is hard cold fact.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:46 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HFNHL PIT GM View Post
More nonsense that salaries have doubled.

In 2003-04, NHL paid out 1.6b to players, in 2011-12, they paid out slightly less than 1.9b.

That's not double. I don't care about math spinning, this is hard cold fact.
I think when people talk about salaries doubling since the last lockout they are referring to 2005-06 to now. In 2005-06 the NHL paid out $1.024B in salaries. Last year they paid out $1.883B. That would be an 84% increase.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:49 AM
  #46
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Has there been any announcement on wether they're meeting today or not?

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:54 AM
  #47
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Has there been any announcement on wether they're meeting today or not?
Kevin Allen ‏@ByKevinAllen
Told no talks planned for today. Don't like to hear that.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:57 AM
  #48
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I would love hockey to be back in December, but no talking is bad. I was thinking they'd be off for the HHOF yesterday and regrouping today and back at it the rest of the week so maybe that will happen?

If they don't talk for another week+, it is looking dicey for that December 1-2 start.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:00 AM
  #49
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You guys get way too emotional. You guys get way up (Go back to October 16th and last week) and way down. In my opinion, both sides are making steady progress and are just posturing to the media to get a bit more. At some point in the next week or so they will sit down and get a deal done.

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:01 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 View Post
Sunday really showed me the hurdle that needs to be jumped for this thing to move forward. When i heard the quote from Bettman "The time for give and take is over", it's no wonder the PA walked away at that point.
L.
We don't know if that quote is accurate or if it was said at all, or, if it was, in what context or what it concerned. Fehr said that he understood that it was said when he was out of the room but whoever supposedly heard it has not spoken up, so it is really just hearsay.

Daly said that they are not walking away from those contract issues that seem to be the sticking point, but not that they couldn't be discussed or altered but just that they are important and cant be walked away from.

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