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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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Old
11-12-2012, 07:33 PM
  #576
madhi19
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... coming from a "cold, dark place" madhi or wishful thinking?
Call it my evaluation of the current situation. It a game of musical chair to decide who will get blamed.

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11-12-2012, 07:48 PM
  #577
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Call it my evaluation of the current situation. It a game of musical chair to decide who will get blamed.
... chaise musicales madhi. As in The Box.

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11-12-2012, 07:52 PM
  #578
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... chaise musicales madhi. As in The Box.
Non coupable, pour cause d’alienation mentale.

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11-12-2012, 08:16 PM
  #579
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Non coupable, pour cause d’alienation mentale.
... hmm, not guilty by reason of insanity doesnt quite cut it.

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11-12-2012, 10:03 PM
  #580
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Dont know Whileee. Its confounding. No one does business like this. Its' insane. Who in their right mind just blithely signs on as an elected official or not to a $300M+++ dealeo without verification? Who invests in such a scheme without having ulterior motives, like the Tohonos for example? This is beyond "spooked out". So what gives? I cant help but feel we are missing a key ingredient. What that is, Im not sure...
All I can say is that there is a reason that Jamison has not revealed the names of his investors. I am still trying to think of a positive reason....nothing yet.

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11-12-2012, 11:26 PM
  #581
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All I can say is that there is a reason that Jamison has not revealed the names of his investors. I am still trying to think of a positive reason....nothing yet.
Mind boggling really. It reminds of scripted professional wrestling. Is Vince Mc Mahon the buyer?

Is the NHL the buyer? the other 29 teams going all in to preserve Phoenix as a market knowing full well the COG can only hang on so long, most likely coinciding with new buildings in QC, Markham and Seattle.

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11-12-2012, 11:47 PM
  #582
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All I can say is that there is a reason that Jamison has not revealed the names of his investors. I am still trying to think of a positive reason....nothing yet.
You'd think after the William "Boots" Del Biaggio fiasco in Nashville a few years back, and going back even further the John Spano embarrassment, that the league would not only be thoroughly vetting all prospective owners, but be ensuring that the sale was as transparent as possible, including investor information.

I've been rooting for the Coyotes (hate seeing teams move, plus if Phoenix could ever get their house in order, I love the idea of a rags-to-riches story), but I'm shocked that Jamieson has progressed to this point in a prospective sale of an NHL team, and something like Investor info isn't available.

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:41 AM
  #583
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All I can say is that there is a reason that Jamison has not revealed the names of his investors. I am still trying to think of a positive reason....nothing yet.
I can understand keeping that on the down low early on because if some investors walk away they might start talking before you close. But this is why NDA exist and we know of at least one *investors who did walk away and he's not talking.
*The Boston Pizza guy.

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11-13-2012, 06:08 AM
  #584
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Did Jamison buy the team yet?

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11-13-2012, 06:38 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
You'd think after the William "Boots" Del Biaggio fiasco in Nashville a few years back, and going back even further the John Spano embarrassment, that the league would not only be thoroughly vetting all prospective owners, but be ensuring that the sale was as transparent as possible, including investor information.

I've been rooting for the Coyotes (hate seeing teams move, plus if Phoenix could ever get their house in order, I love the idea of a rags-to-riches story), but I'm shocked that Jamieson has progressed to this point in a prospective sale of an NHL team, and something like Investor info isn't available.
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Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
I can understand keeping that on the down low early on because if some investors walk away they might start talking before you close. But this is why NDA exist and we know of at least one *investors who did walk away and he's not talking.
*The Boston Pizza guy.
I can see why the investors might want to keep things quiet, but I am very surprised and intrigued as to why the COG thinks that it's a good idea to proceed on this $320 million tripartite agreement when they don't even know who the third party is.

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11-13-2012, 07:24 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
You'd think after the William "Boots" Del Biaggio fiasco in Nashville a few years back, and going back even further the John Spano embarrassment, that the league would not only be thoroughly vetting all prospective owners, but be ensuring that the sale was as transparent as possible, including investor information.

I've been rooting for the Coyotes (hate seeing teams move, plus if Phoenix could ever get their house in order, I love the idea of a rags-to-riches story), but I'm shocked that Jamieson has progressed to this point in a prospective sale of an NHL team, and something like Investor info isn't available.
Pardon me, but time passing does not equal progress. Where are we compared to when GJ was announced as a potential purchaser?

- lease - then = none, now = off the rails and being renegotiated
- purchase - then = unknown, now = unknown
- investors - then = unknown, probably short huge amounts of cash, now = unknown, possibly short cash, possibly one of CoG's sworn enemies

Not a lot of real progress here, potentially not far away, potentially not even close. now add in the political side of things and it starts to look like a powderkeg ready to go off. I'm personally ready with the armchair and popcorn to watch the show during the handoff of power from one council to the next.

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11-13-2012, 07:43 AM
  #587
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All I can say is that there is a reason that Jamison has not revealed the names of his investors. I am still trying to think of a positive reason....nothing yet.
Speculators..... there are no investors in this mess, they are all speculators.

The CoG does boggle the mind though.

How hard would it be for the CoG to come out and say " You want our money? Fine... then before we give you our money, we want you ( Jamison ) and everyone else who will be owners of this team, to be at the next council meeting so we can all see who we are giving our money to. And if this is too inconvenient, then too bad, you don't get our money. "

These people are actually going to give $320M to a nameless / faceless entity. Jamison is just a figurehead IMO. The real owners are as of yet, unknown.

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11-13-2012, 08:03 AM
  #588
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The Blues deal has closed already, and other than Stillman and the Taylors, are his investors named? I havn't seen anywhere where they are listed, just speculation as well. I'm not sure PHO is a president setter here.

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11-13-2012, 08:04 AM
  #589
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Business, especially at the restaurants, is way down without the Coyotes. That's common knowledge. I don't see anyone at Westgate actively wishing for the Coyotes to leave. They've been awfully supportive, for good reason. Tangier opening up next door helps ease the loss, but all of that retail is better off if there are Coyote fans milling about on gameday. Weekend games tend to turn into an all day thing, where fans hang out, shop and eat at Westgate.

The Coyotes would be a tremendous loss for the area. The area exists, in part, because of the team in the first place. What we're now down to is more or less a philosophical question; should cities be in the sports business? Glendale said yes to that a long time ago, which is why you see two amazing facilities, surrounded by retail, in a glorified suburb. To turn back on that now is childish and shortsighted.
There's no doubt the Coyotes do generate some business for Westgate, on up to 41 days a year, plus playoff (and the occasional pre-season) games. How much is certainly up for debate. And I don't see anyone "turning their back" on Westgate. It's not at all a philosophical question, it's purely financial. It will cost the COG $15 million a year to keep the Coyotes there, and spending that on a subsidy could very well be against state laws. If the COG walks away it's not turning their back, it would be a prudent financial decision.

If the COG really wants to "save" Westgate there are far better ways of doing it than throwing $15 million a year into a financial sinkhole at the adjacent Jobing.com arena, hoping for some spillover traffic. $15 million for roughly 45 Coyotes games a year is insane, and insanely stupid for a government to support.

Why not give $15 million a year directly to Westgage? Why not pass out $20 bills to the first 2,000 cars into the Westgate parking lot each day? Why not offer to buy 8,000 pints of beer each and every day of the year for lucky patrons at Margaritaville and Yardhouse? Either of those options would cost less than $15 million a year, and would attract far more business to Westgate than nearby professional hockey.

What's better for the retail plaza, hoping for 12,000 spillover Coyotes fans 45 nights a year or having $15 million spent wisely to promote / attract business directly to the retail center?

If the city is doing this for Westgate, they're going about it completely the wrong way. And if restuarants and retail places set up business relying completely on the 12,000 or so fans the Coyotes pull in 45 nights a year, then those businesses were doomed to fail, and their closure was only inevitable.

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11-13-2012, 08:17 AM
  #590
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The Blues deal has closed already, and other than Stillman and the Taylors, are his investors named? I havn't seen anywhere where they are listed, just speculation as well. I'm not sure PHO is a president setter here.
But, did the taxpayers of St. Louis give the new owners of the Blues $320M?

It's not naming names that is the issue here...the issue is accountability. The CoG actually asked Jamison who his partners are and Jamison told them that it was none of their business, oh and by the way, I still want your money.

Seriously... you are about to get in bed with someone for 20 years and it's costing you $320M...don't you think you should at least know who your sleeping with?


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11-13-2012, 08:19 AM
  #591
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Pardon me, but time passing does not equal progress. Where are we compared to when GJ was announced as a potential purchaser?

- lease - then = none, now = off the rails and being renegotiated
- purchase - then = unknown, now = unknown
- investors - then = unknown, probably short huge amounts of cash, now = unknown, possibly short cash, possibly one of CoG's sworn enemies

Not a lot of real progress here, potentially not far away, potentially not even close. now add in the political side of things and it starts to look like a powderkeg ready to go off. I'm personally ready with the armchair and popcorn to watch the show during the handoff of power from one council to the next.
Very good point, I suppose "progress" was a poor choice of words, haha.

I was more making reference to the fact that Jamieson has been in this game long enough now, and been the most public prospective buyer for enough time that things like this should be fairly transparent.

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11-13-2012, 08:34 AM
  #592
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Did Jamison buy the team yet?
No the COG says the team has not lost any money this season so they have turned the corner financially and they want to pay him less money now

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11-13-2012, 09:12 AM
  #593
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Did Jamison buy the team yet?
Not yet but a re-worked lease will be voted on in two weeks on Nov 27......

I'm sure it'll just be a mtter of crossing some t's and dotting some i's after that

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11-13-2012, 09:18 AM
  #594
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Speculators..... there are no investors in this mess, they are all speculators.

The CoG does boggle the mind though.

How hard would it be for the CoG to come out and say " You want our money? Fine... then before we give you our money, we want you ( Jamison ) and everyone else who will be owners of this team, to be at the next council meeting so we can all see who we are giving our money to. And if this is too inconvenient, then too bad, you don't get our money. "

These people are actually going to give $320M to a nameless / faceless entity. Jamison is just a figurehead IMO. The real owners are as of yet, unknown.
Of course that would be the only appropriate action to take. The Council has an indisputable fiduciary responsibility to its citizens to procure as much due diligence as is possible. This group seems incapable of asking the hard questions, preferring to bury their heads in the sand and give away the taxpayers money without inspection. Sorry to be political but this entire charade reminds me of a similar set of miscues and going on in our nations Capital. In both cases the perpetrators are attempting to put one over on the taxpayers without once considering the long term consequences of their actions. In the end, in both cases the taxpayer gets abused by the power hungry politicians who have absolutely no money in the game and therefore do not care for anything but their own legacies!

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11-13-2012, 09:19 AM
  #595
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Not yet but a re-worked lease will be voted on in two weeks on Nov 27......

I'm sure it'll just be a mtter of crossing some t's and dotting some i's after that
Quote:
Monday, December 3rd 2012

Pay to : Gary Bettman, National Hockey League

Amount : ~ One hundred seventy millions USD ~

Details : Purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes

Signed : Pierre-Karl Péladeau
I see there 6 t's, 5 i's and one e on which he needs to put an accent before this deal is done.

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11-13-2012, 09:20 AM
  #596
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Not yet but a re-worked lease will be voted on in two weeks on Nov 27......

I'm sure it'll just be a mtter of crossing some t's and dotting some i's after that
Hard to dot I`s ant cross T`s when the buyer has no money and never intended to buy this franchise!

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11-13-2012, 09:23 AM
  #597
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What's better for the retail plaza, hoping for 12,000 spillover Coyotes fans 45 nights a year or having $15 million spent wisely to promote / attract business directly to the retail center?

If the city is doing this for Westgate, they're going about it completely the wrong way. And if restuarants and retail places set up business relying completely on the 12,000 or so fans the Coyotes pull in 45 nights a year, then those businesses were doomed to fail, and their closure was only inevitable.
When I went to Jobing for a hockey game, there were at the most 9000 persons in the stands. The 12000 avg comes from tickets sold but not actual at the game persons. Out of these 9000, how many really shopped at Westgate? 1000? 2000? Besides bar and restaurants, nothing was open after the game.

So basically, CoG is throwing 15m$ a year to save a few restaurants and bars... This "investment" brings about 3m$ a year to CoG. Not a very smart investment. I agree that paying that same money to make Westgate more competitive, either with paying beer, giving 20$ bills or making it a tax free zone would bring much more traffic and paying customers than Coyotes games.

I think the Coyotes should stay if an owner can make it work. Not by subsidizing losses digging a 12m$ hole every year for 20 years.

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11-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #598
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No the COG says the team has not lost any money this season so they have turned the corner financially and they want to pay him less money now
Shhhhh, don't tell the council this, they won't understand that this is not the "new normal" for the team and expect them to continue to not pay the players in perpetuity.

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11-13-2012, 09:35 AM
  #599
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Hard to dot I`s ant cross T`s when the buyer has no money and never intended to buy this franchise!
Just dot and cross them in the word imminent

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11-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #600
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The Blues deal has closed already, and other than Stillman and the Taylors, are his investors named? I havn't seen anywhere where they are listed, just speculation as well. I'm not sure PHO is a president setter here.
Here is the Blues list: Phoenix beats to its own drum.

Quote:
Tom Stillman, chairman and CEO of Summit Distributing
Donn Lux, Luxco chairman and CEO
Jo Ann Taylor Kindle, president of the Enterprise Holdings Foundation
Steve Maritz, Maritz Inc. chairman and CEO
Jim Cooper, managing partner of Thompson Street Capital Partners
Ed Potter
Jack Danforth, partner at Bryan Cave LLP and former U.S. Senator
Chris Danforth, owner of Kennelwood Pet Resorts
Jim Johnson, senior vice president of Stifel Nicolaus & Co.
Scott McCuaig, former president of Stifel Nicolaus & Co.
John Ross Jr., president of Summit Development Group
Jerry Kent, chairman and CEO of Suddenlink Communications, CEO of Cequel III
Andy and Barbara Taylor – Andy Taylor is chairman and CEO of Enterprise Holdings
Jim Kavanaugh, CEO of World Wide Technology, Inc.
David Steward, chairman of World Wide Technology, Inc.
Tom Schlafly, founder of The Saint Louis Brewery and partner at Thompson Coburn LLP
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/b...raised-72.html

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