I think Plek is all around a more complete player than DD but DD has more upside. I think we have seen all we had from Plek at this point. If I had to pick a "for now" number one center I would pick DD.
pleks was used more on a defensive role while DD was strickly offense,one center had our best 2 wingers and the other one had a different winger every game.Pleks at this point is a way better center then DD
pleks was used more on a defensive role while DD was strickly offense,one center had our best 2 wingers and the other one had a different winger every game.Pleks at this point is a way better center then DD
One player was playing his 6th full season in the NHL, the other, his first. One player was 29, the other, 25.
The question isn't who is better. I definitely agree, Plekanec is a better player. The guy said DD has more upside. At this point, I agree. Desharnais could very well get better. He wouldn't be the first late bloomer in the history of the game. He won't get taller, and he probably won't get much bigger. But his game is cerebral and understanding and getting acclimated to the pace of the NHL are things that he can improve.
Plus, saying that you can't win with a small, skilled player in your top-6 is beyond ridiculous.
Also, this argument that DD is bad because he has to get sheltered minutes is stupid. He was given a role and he played it well. Why would we give the easy minutes to Plekanec when clearly, he's our best defensive forward? Of course he's going to get the tough minutes and that frees up the easy minutes for someone else. Desharnais wasn't handed the role, he stepped up big time and showed he could do it. The guy is a workhorse. You don't get to the NHL at his size, all the way up from the ECHL by being lazy and lucky.
One player was playing his 6th full season in the NHL, the other, his first. One player was 29, the other, 25.
The question isn't who is better. I definitely agree, Plekanec is a better player. The guy said DD has more upside. At this point, I agree. Desharnais could very well get better. He wouldn't be the first late bloomer in the history of the game. He won't get taller, and he probably won't get much bigger. But his game is cerebral and understanding and getting acclimated to the pace of the NHL are things that he can improve.
Plus, saying that you can't win with a small, skilled player in your top-6 is beyond ridiculous.
Also, this argument that DD is bad because he has to get sheltered minutes is stupid. He was given a role and he played it well. Why would we give the easy minutes to Plekanec when clearly, he's our best defensive forward? Of course he's going to get the tough minutes and that frees up the easy minutes for someone else. Desharnais wasn't handed the role, he stepped up big time and showed he could do it. The guy is a workhorse. You don't get to the NHL at his size, all the way up from the ECHL by being lazy and lucky.
yes yes we all know Pleks is older and more experienced then DD but doesnt take away the fact that Plekanec is our best center and if he was the one playing with Patches and Cole hes year would be much different.Im not taking ne thing away from David he had a great year but people need to understand he was playing with our best 2 wingers,he would of never had that same year playing with the players Tomas had and btw DD doesnt have a bigger upside,hes a good passer thats it...Pleks is not only great with passes but amazing defensively
thats my opinion only but if i was the Habs management i would focus on going forward with Pleks Eller and Gally has our centers and trade away DD
Last edited by PATCHESx67: 11-10-2012 at 04:52 PM.
National team break here in Switzerland. Our national team is competing in the "Deutschland Cup" those days, so break for the NLA. First championship game (NLA) for David Desharnais with Fribourg Gottéron next Friday at home against EHC Biel (Kane and Seguin).
But normally, Desharnais will play his first game Monday against Pardubice (CZ, Kindl, Krejci and Hemsky), since Fribourg is competing in the European Trophy (sort of pre-season tournament, but some game are held in the middle of the season). It will be broadcast on public TV, unlike the championship game (private TV). So if your lucky, you'll be able to watch it without problems, or just need a swiss proxy, I believe. Not an expert though
so your basically saying in order to win you have to have tough in your face players. Goons, power forwards, grinders. And they have to be big to?
bro answer my question so I can put this debate to rest
if you watched the finals, where would DD fit on that championship team ?
seriously whose job was he going to steal on that top 9 ?
dont look at stats , anyone can put up decent numbers on a crap team on a pp
remember MAB on this roster ? how many teams has he boucned with with no sucess
folks DD cant play on the wing , he has no hands , lacks speed , and gets pushed around
he cant play with fillers cause he has no role , he had 2 horses who drove the net and put up decent numbers , put him with White and Blunden and wtf is he going to do
He was not going to take Kopitar , Ricahards or Stoll`s job
can he play 4th line on the Kings with 8 minutes of ice time as a role player ?
4th liners are grinders , fighters, checkers , etc...
bro wake up its like Darche playing top 6 with us , why cause we stink , thats why
I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PENS , PHILLY , BOSTON , etc....
One player was playing his 6th full season in the NHL, the other, his first. One player was 29, the other, 25.
The question isn't who is better. I definitely agree, Plekanec is a better player. The guy said DD has more upside. At this point, I agree. Desharnais could very well get better. He wouldn't be the first late bloomer in the history of the game. He won't get taller, and he probably won't get much bigger. But his game is cerebral and understanding and getting acclimated to the pace of the NHL are things that he can improve.
Plus, saying that you can't win with a small, skilled player in your top-6 is beyond ridiculous.
Also, this argument that DD is bad because he has to get sheltered minutes is stupid. He was given a role and he played it well. Why would we give the easy minutes to Plekanec when clearly, he's our best defensive forward? Of course he's going to get the tough minutes and that frees up the easy minutes for someone else. Desharnais wasn't handed the role, he stepped up big time and showed he could do it. The guy is a workhorse. You don't get to the NHL at his size, all the way up from the ECHL by being lazy and lucky.
you win with St.Louis and Fleury in your top 6 not DD
bro answer my question so I can put this debate to rest
if you watched the finals, where would DD fit on that championship team ?
seriously whose job was he going to steal on that top 9 ?
dont look at stats , anyone can put up decent numbers on a crap team on a pp
remember MAB on this roster ? how many teams has he boucned with with no sucess
folks DD cant play on the wing , he has no hands , lacks speed , and gets pushed around
he cant play with fillers cause he has no role , he had 2 horses who drove the net and put up decent numbers , put him with White and Blunden and wtf is he going to do
He was not going to take Kopitar , Ricahards or Stoll`s job
can he play 4th line on the Kings with 8 minutes of ice time as a role player ?
4th liners are grinders , fighters, checkers , etc...
bro wake up its like Darche playing top 6 with us , why cause we stink , thats why
I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PENS , PHILLY , BOSTON , etc....
how the hell are we to compete with DD as our #1
TBL with MAB pushed Boston to game 7 on ECF.
I mean, there's roles for certain players, even DD.
Habs aren't the kings, why are we comparing the two? Is there room for Eller? he's not a grinder for the 4th line and they have Carter, Richards, Kopitar, Stoll who are all better than him. We should get rid of Eller. Hell, Plekanec might be a 3rd line center there.
These are entirely different teams who play different styles. Context is important. Desharnais isn't a star but he can be useful, that simple.
Im not sold on DD yet, I still prefer Plekanec's all around game much more, but to say that DD is useless is wrong.
He can play well, we have to at least give him that, but as of now, I see Plekanec way ahead of him as our best C. Maybe he can improve and pass him later on but right now there's no denying he's probably our 2nd best C while waiting for the rest to develop.
if you watched the finals, where would DD fit on that championship team ?
seriously whose job was he going to steal on that top 9 ?
Desharnais is a million times better than Dustin Penner at least, I'm certain the Kings would have found a use for him in their lineup. An argument could be made he could have been more useful than Jeff Carter as well, who's supposed to be awesome but is, in fact, a big *****.
He would also have been useful to the Devils who did not have that strong of a top9 after Parise/Kovalchuk.
Just because these teams don't happen to have an identical player to Desharnais (a pretty unique player) on their lineup does not mean Desharnais can't fit in a cup winning roster. Would you have believed anyone saying Ryder, a flawed player, would win a cup a few years ago?
Is Desharnais gifted with a tremendous lot of talent and hockey IQ?
Can Desharnais use that talent to produce at the NHL level? Hell yes
Can Desharnais survive a tough NHL season despite his size? Yes
What the hell is the problem then?
Last edited by FlyingKostitsyn: 11-11-2012 at 03:56 PM.
Im not sold on DD yet, I still prefer Plekanec's all around game much more, but to say that DD is useless is wrong.
He can play well, we have to at least give him that, but as of now, I see Plekanec way ahead of him as our best C. Maybe he can improve and pass him later on but right now there's no denying he's probably our 2nd best C while waiting for the rest to develop.
i believe so as well. i also believe that his upside is higher than plek's. and i've said this before and i'll say it again: long term, i see him settling as a third line offensive center and powerplay specialist center, a-la danny briere in philly. either that or as a winger for eller or galchenyuk. but who the **** knows really...
im hungovered and this desharnais 'debate' - it's more like a 'my dad can beat up your dad' kind of debate anyways by now - is really making my brain pulse out of my skull...
im still waiting for the "you can't win if your centers don't score goals" argument to come up
So, first game tonight for Desharnais with his new team, Fribourg Gottéron against HC Pardubice (Kindl, Krejci and Hemsky), game for the European Trophy. He will wear n°51, and will play center on the first line. His wingers will be Simon Gamache and Christian Dube.
Ps: if you can watch it, don't expect a full building since it's pretty much a friendship match. Building will be full Friday for next championship game.
I can't believe people are still hating on DD. I remember his first year people were saying he only produced because he was on the 3rd line and didn't have to go up against the opposition's best D pairing, hahaha. Conveniently ignoring that he had $#@t for linemates.
Plekanec might be better all around but Pleks cannot play the puck possession game like DD can. I also think that DD can still get better as well. He might be older but that was still his first full year. Streit came into the league as an older player and still continued to improve.
DD didn't put up world beater #s in every league previous to this out of sheer luck.
So, first game tonight for Desharnais with his new team, Fribourg Gottéron against HC Pardubice (Kindl, Krejci and Hemsky), game for the European Trophy. He will wear n°51, and will play center on the first line. His wingers will be Simon Gamache and Christian Dube.
Ps: if you can watch it, don't expect a full building since it's pretty much a friendship match. Building will be full Friday for next championship game.
I agree that when Gally makes the jump to the NHL, we're gonna be too stacked in the center.
Pleks
Gally
Eller
DD
We will either have to convert someone to start playing on the wing, or we're gonna trade a center or 2 for an elite winger. I say we should try DD on the wing with Gally and Patches or put Eller on the wing with DD and Patches.
I love all of our best 4 centers and hate to see any of them go. This kinda reminds me of when we had Price and Halak and had to let go of one of the two.
I agree that when Gally makes the jump to the NHL, we're gonna be too stacked in the center.
Pleks
Gally
Eller
DD
We will either have to convert someone to start playing on the wing, or we're gonna trade a center or 2 for an elite winger. I say we should try DD on the wing with Gally and Patches or put Eller on the wing with DD and Patches.
I love all of our best 4 centers and hate to see any of them go. This kinda reminds me of when we had Price and Halak and had to let go of one of the two.
Why not Gally at the wing, since it's his primary position?
Why not Gally at the wing, since it's his primary position?
Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing him on the wing in the beginning and see who's playing better on the wing between him and Eller. I find Eller plays soooo much better when he's centering. I haven't watched much of Gally's game and I don't know how he would do on the wing but I don't want him to become a winger. I'd want him to get some experience in the center and see how well he does.
Afterall, he is that elite first line center we've been begging for the last couple of years.
you win with St.Louis and Fleury in your top 6 not DD
Flawed argument. If you have a top 6 of Crosby, St-Louis, Giroux, DD, Cole and Pacioretty, that doesn't make it a great top 6? Do you still imply that solely with DD in a top 6, you don't win anything? This a league with a salary cap. This is a team that almost needs to start from scratch based on decisions taken. While you might not take DD in your top 6 compared to the Kings, chances are in the near future, you wouldn't trade your Montreal defense for ANYBODY in the league either. So every team has their own strenght. Even LA had their weaknesses, they didn't dominated the league in the regular season either. And I've been told numerous times that despite winning the Cup, Boston was the weakest team to have won it in decades. You win for different sorts of reasons. And until you don't have a greater replacement, DD does a very fine job. And if you have an incredible 1st line, a good 2nd line in the DD line and some incredible grinders forming your bottom 6, added to one of the beset defense in the league and this great goaltender everybody thinks we have....why the heck wouldn't we win anything? How do you know that? Every team, even the Cup winning team has their weaknesses. And if our greateset weakness is that our #2 centerman is small and might not win every battles....if we do end up winning 'cause we're great everywhere else, I'm fine with that. Now, if your point is to say that we need to get rid of him to get better....how are we going to do that? How are we better with DD and Gally on his wings for 1 or 2 years or Gally right now at center with.....who on his wings? Bourque? Gomez?
Yes, we do not have a team right now to be Cup contender. Takes time. We will get there. Until then, you need to keep the guys that can improve your team. If you find somebody else for free, so be it. Since it won't happen, improve where you can, through draft, through trades, through improvement, and we will get there. But I just don't see how DD is talked as one of the problems in this team. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Desharnais remain pointless yesterday in 3-2 win for his lock-out team Fribourg Gottéron against Pardubice in the European Trophy. Next game: Friday against EHC Biel (Kane, Seguin).
I wouldn't compare Desharnais to Briere just yet. Also, Philly is a stacked team, they don't rely solely on Briere where as with the Canadiens, Desharnais and his line is the one we lean on.
While I think there are some on this board that completely underrate Desharnais, there is a whole other group that severly overrrates him.
