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Pavel Bure's Number To Be Retired (Post # 31)

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11-13-2012, 12:25 AM
  #226
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
I always thought they never really got along - either before or after; though I wouldn't call the on-ice product a failure - just bad luck (seemed like when one was healthy - the other was injured). Or rather typical "Canuck Luck" with respect to injuries.
huh, i never heard that about mogilny and bure. i just remember that summer and all the buddy buddy press photos they did when they had those awful dumb and dumber haircuts. so bure didn't get along with mogilny or fedorov, eh?

yeah, it was a real shame they were rarely healthy at the same time. but all summer we were hearing canucks PR talking about how they were putting together 2/3 of the famous mogilny/fedorov/bure line and then right off the bat they almost never played on the same line (which makes perfect sense being that they're both puck carrying RWers, but still.... what a disappointment).

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11-13-2012, 10:47 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i'm watching adam oates thank people and i'm getting a little teary and sentimental. and then pavel... thanks not one teammate specifically. and i can only laugh.

would have liked to hear him talk about the guys who really meant something to him. we know about larionov, geoff courtnall apparently, gino of course. but just like when he was here, even after his hall of fame speech we have no idea what, if anything, gus adams, linden, lumme, and the rest meant to him. was he happy he got to hang out with mogilny again, even though the on-ice product was a failure? i guess we'll never know.
I stopped listening actually, does he ever specifically thank his dad? He sure is in love with Pat Quinn and vice versa considering the apparently horrible relationship they had. I guess it's true, money heals all wounds.

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11-13-2012, 10:51 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
I stopped listening actually, does he ever specifically thank his dad? He sure is in love with Pat Quinn and vice versa considering the apparently horrible relationship they had. I guess it's true, money heals all wounds.
No, he never mentioned his father. He specifically singled out his mother for taking him to the rinks, and also Valeri - but the closest he came to mentioning his father was "I want to thank my parents".

I also found it odd that at the very least, he didn't mention Gino Odjick. He was there in the audience and thinks the world of Bure. (he named his son Bure, if I'm not mistaken)

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11-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #229
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Are we really debating Bure's speech? He's never been one for many words, especially in english.

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11-13-2012, 01:10 PM
  #230
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Are we really debating Bure's speech? He's never been one for many words, especially in english.
He singled out his mother for thanks without mentioning his father, who if my blurry memory serves, was a big influence in his pursuit of fitness.

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11-13-2012, 06:47 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
He singled out his mother for thanks without mentioning his father, who if my blurry memory serves, was a big influence in his pursuit of fitness.
yeah, but as i recall, he and valeri never forgave their dad for running out on their mom. i remember reading an article in the province years ago about how it broke their dad's heart that he wasn't invited to watch them in nagano, as it had always been his lifelong dream to watch his boys compete for an olympic medal.

EDIT: after a little googling, i found this:

Quote:
Bure's dad admits rift with son

Elliott Pap Vancouver Sun


Vladimir Bure
Admitting he and son Pavel have split due to "philosophical differences", Vladimir Bure said Wednesday he hasn't spoken to the seemingly troubled Vancouver Canuck star since last week and doesn't know where he is.
"Yes, I'm upset, it is not the happiest time of my life," said the elder Bure, who acted as Pavel's personal trainer until being fired last Friday along with agents Ron Salcer and Serge Levin. "I don't know what's happening in Pavel's brain. He is my baby but I understand he's 26 and he has to make decisions by himself."

Vladimir Bure declined to elaborate on the "philosophical" problems with Pavel, other than to say Pavel began disputing his rigorous training program and balking at two-a-day workouts.

"He wanted to do his two [training] practices together and I don't agree with this," said Vladimir, 47. "Two practices is more productive. My No. 1 rule is the coach is always right. I had the same rule when I was swimming and my father was my coach. Pavel tried to change something and I didn't like it."

Vladimir Bure, who swam in two Olympics for the old Soviet Union, said he doesn't know precisely what Pavel told Canuck general manager Pat Quinn in the now famous trade-request meeting. But he did concede his son wants a change.

"Pavel needs fresh blood," continued Vladimir Bure. "With Mark Messier coming here, it could be the same as fresh blood but who knows? If Pavel would play with Messier, maybe he could score again like he did. I would say he'll be back for training camp but I really don't know. In my last conversation with him, he said he was still ready to play for the Canucks as much as he can."

Vladimir Bure said his life in Vancouver will go on with or without Pavel. Divorced from Pavel's mother, Vladimir re-married four years ago and has a Canadian-born daughter, Katia, who is two. He also has an interest in Little Moscow, an assembly hall type restaurant that will cater private functions for Vancouver's Russian community.

"I feel fine," Vladimir Bure said. "I did what every father dreams -- to work with my baby. In the beginning, it was a crazy dream. I dreamed how to make him an Olympic champion and the best athlete in the world. Then he became the best hockey player in Russia and we came here to North America and I tried to support him."

The firm hand of Vladimir Bure first became apparent six years ago when the father and his two sons, Pavel and Valeri, arrived in North America. During a photo shoot in the Los Angeles area, Vladimir slapped Pavel across the face when he felt his son was being uncooperative.

The incident eventually drifted to the background and Vladimir began to receive acclaim for his ability to train Pavel, who was annually the team's best conditioned athlete.

Three years ago, Vladimir was put on the Canuck payroll as Pavel's personal trainer. Now the relationship, both professionally and personally, has ended for now.

"It doesn't matter what Pavel does," concluded Vladimir Bure. "He is still my son."

Meanwhile, the fired Salcer said he holds "no bitterness" at being sacked by Pavel. Salcer was also cashiered by Valeri Bure, who plays for the Montreal Canadiens.

"I don't quite understand any of this but it's Pavel choice," said Salcer, the negotiator of Bure's sensational $24.5 million US contract. "All I can tell you is that I got a phone call from his father telling me that he had been fired and then Pavel fired me. If this is how he feels, I can't control it. I'll continue to enjoy the clients I do have and, in some kind of way, I'm relieved."

Gino Odjick, Pavel's closest friend on the Canucks, declined to comment Wednesday, saying he needed to talk to Bure first.
if you ever wondered why the hockey card photo in my avatar looks like pavel had just been crying, that was the incident mentioned in the article where his dad open-palmed him.

weird thing is, i don't think pavel becomes as good as he is without his dad pushing him as hard as he did. but on the other hand, i think we all know how tyrannical some sports fathers can be. i feel like i also once read an article where vladimir said something like, "it's sad i don't have a relationship with my boys anymore. but i watch them and how good they are, and i know they couldn't have done it without me. watching them makes me happy because it reminds me of those times we spent together training" (which apparently they now resent).



and the province article i remember from way back when:

Quote:
Is Vladimir Bure the forgotten father?
by Terry Bell - - The Province
Tuesday, February 08, 2000

When Pavel and Valeri Bure lined up for the World Team in Sunday's NHL All-Star Game, their father Vladimir wasn't watching.

He was as far away from the television as he could get. Watching his two sons play hockey used to be the joy of his life. Now the spectacle only breaks his confused heart.

"My boys ... " says Vladimir, close to tears and sitting on a couch in his modest west-side Vancouver townhouse. "I gave everything for my boys. It's like someone is trying to destroy my life. I don't understand. I won't watch it. It's too painful."

Neither Pavel, 28, nor Valeri Bure, 25, has spoken to Vladimir since the fall of 1998. How ironic it seems. First the autumn change. And now this cold, bitter winter of their discontent.

"Before they were born, I was just 19 and I was already dreaming," says Vladimir. "I would see my kids as Olympic champions. I didn't want them to be doctors or engineers or lawyers. I wanted them to be athletes. I spent all my life working with them but I don't feel appreciation from my kids.

"When Pavel was having his operation [for torn knee ligaments] I asked the doctors if they could give him my ligaments."

But when the Bure boys played for Russia in the Nagano Olympics in 1998, Vladimir did not witness the great moment.

"They forgot to invite me to the Olympic Games. It was one of the most painful times in my life."

To understand Vladimir Bure's pain you must first understand Vladimir Bure.

He was born in Norilsk, a Siberian gulag. His father, Valeri, had been sent there by the Stalinist government.

Vladimir, a passionate and driven man, moved to Moscow at a young age. He became a swimmer. A very good one. He represented the Soviet Union in three Olympics, winning a silver and three bronze medals.

But the fire that drove Vladimir Bure to outswim the world also drove him to make his sons the best they could be. In the end he probably drove them too hard.

Pavel and Valeri must have their reasons for the silence. Vladimir says he has no idea what they are.

"It's like drops of water on a stone," he says. "Eventually the stone breaks in half."

Asked if he pushed too hard, Vladimir says: "It's a price. To be good, you don't pay money. It's hard work. No, if I didn't do it, then they don't reach where they are.

"Every father should understand me. I'm not a special father, I'm a normal father."

A father, divorced and remarried, that doesn't even have Pavel's phone number. His older son has become a mystery to him.

He doesn't have much to say about Pavel's reported associations with shady characters, including the alleged Russian gangster Anzor Kikalishvili.

Vladimir told Sports Illustrated recently that Pavel's friends are "very bad."

"I don't know if he's bad," says Vladimir now. "I can't tell Pavel how to choose his friends. I don't know if he's bad or good."

Though his sons make millions, Vladimir struggles, training other athletes. Those he has worked with include Alexander Mogilny, Gino Odjick and rookie-of-the-year candidate Scott Gomez. Still, Vladimir says this family problem isn't about money.

And his dreams aren't of Olympic medals or NHL stardom but of a greater prize -- reconciliation.

"I dream of that ... my two boys ... they are still in my heart."
and this:

Quote:
Ma's Valuable Player
Bure brothers' performance leaves MVP mother beaming
by Mark Miller - - Calgary Sun
Monday, February 7, 2000



Bure to Bure, for mom.

Two brothers' love for the woman who raised them on her own, through poverty and severe challenges as a single mom, was reflected in the beaming smile.

The smile was mom's, standing outside the dressing room after the 50th NHL All-Star Game.

"I couldn't be prouder of my two sons," Tatiana Bure said through an interpreter.

No one needed to interpret the joy she felt at the success of her two boys.

And it was just as apparent on the ice as Pavel fashioned an all-star MVP performance with three goals, two of them set up beautifully by little brother Val of the Calgary Flames.

After their first goal, Pavel leaned over to younger brother, throwing his arm around his shoulder and shaking him in joy.

"We did it," the gesture seemed to say.

Yesterday, before the hockey world, two brothers from Moscow put on the show of their lives.

But it wasn't the millions who watched on television they played for.

It was for one woman seated in the stands.

Mom.

"We owe everything to our mom," said Val.

"She's one of the most important people in our lives."

"She raised us, and when we struggled, she was there for bad and good.

"Now it's a good time, and I wanted to share that with her, and with my wife and brother.

"It doesn't get any better than that.

"It's just exciting for us to see her in the stands.

"We didn't think we had to do anything special. She was in tears just to see us go on the ice at the same time."

The tears came from the remembered hardship, raising her boys in Moscow until their hockey skills finally pulled the family out of near poverty.

Tatiana supported her two sons by working as many jobs as she could handle -- sometimes as many as three, including her full-time job at a local supermarket.

With the estrangement of father Vladimir, times were tough.

Val talks of the challenges of keeping food on the table, clothes on their bodies. It was tough.

But as much as it was a challenge, it forged an indelible family spirit.

Even today, the brothers keep in contact almost daily by phone, despite the fact they're separated by a continent.

The on-ice chemistry was apparent from the start.

With Viktor Kozlov in the middle, the Bure brothers skated on the same forward line for the first time.

"It was a special night for me," said Pavel.

In the second period, they worked their special magic. Val, weaving into the offensive zone, threw a no-look back pass to his older brother streaking down the middle.

Pavel's slapshot beat Martin Brodeur.

Older brother pointed at younger brother and skated over to embrace in celebration.

It was just the beginning of more Bure magic to come.

Later that period, Val again carried the puck into the North American zone, his attention focused on Pavel backing into a shooting position on the wing.

The pass was perfect, the goal a one-time shot that was a thing of beauty.

Pavel added his third in the final period, a rebound of a Kozlov shot and his hat trick, and the MVP performance was complete.

In the final seconds, older brother passed to Val as he was alone at the side of the net, just as Pavel had told him on the bench to do.

Val, instead of shooting, passed it back, trying to get his brother his fourth all-star goal.

"Younger brother never listens to the older one," laughed Val.

It was a chapter of a family's storybook success, one that is far from being complete. As mom left the rink, she clutched the crystal MVP trophy to her chest.

"Is that yours?" she was asked.

"Of course it is," she replied without the need of interpreter.

The Bure brothers couldn't agree more.
ironically, all three bures have olympic medals. but vladimir bure is the only one with his name on the cup (from when he was a trainer for the 2000 devils, which swept pavel's panthers in the first round en route to the cup.


Last edited by vadim sharifijanov: 11-13-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old
11-14-2012, 08:36 PM
  #232
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I also found it odd that at the very least, he didn't mention Gino Odjick. He was there in the audience and thinks the world of Bure. (he named his son Bure, if I'm not mistaken)
Odjick was in attendance as well. I thought it was odd that he didn't mention his name at all.

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11-17-2012, 11:15 AM
  #233
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Never will be able to understand why we took Libor Polasek when Valeri was sitting there.

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11-18-2012, 12:06 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Never will be able to understand why we took Libor Polasek when Valeri was sitting there.
i was screaming at the TV.

on the other hand, i wanted us to trade up to grab valeri near the end of the first round, which is what i fully expected quinn to do. turns out keeping the 2nd rounder and taking peca was easily the better move. would have been nice to keep peca, but getting mogilny for him wasn't too shabby either-- even if in my mind the canucks took a sabbatical from the league between '97 and '00 (hell, the WCE never happened either).

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11-18-2012, 09:48 PM
  #235
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Never will be able to understand why we took Libor Polasek when Valeri was sitting there.
The sad part of it is, he was only arguably the worst 1st round pick during that period for the Canucks (plenty of duds....).

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11-18-2012, 10:23 PM
  #236
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Never will be able to understand why we took Libor Polasek when Valeri was sitting there.
Because we were hoping against hope for another Mark Messier... or at least a Joel Otto... or someone who could legitimately play against them.

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11-19-2012, 12:20 AM
  #237
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The sad part of it is, he was only arguably the worst 1st round pick during that period for the Canucks (plenty of duds....).
Which is why taking a player "because he reminds us of player X" is THE worst drafting strategy ever

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11-19-2012, 11:37 AM
  #238
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Which is why taking a player "because he reminds us of player X" is THE worst drafting strategy ever
stojanov!

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12-12-2012, 05:30 AM
  #239
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stojanov!
Please, no. But Naslund though!

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