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C Stewart for K Ballard

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Old
11-12-2012, 01:34 PM
  #26
Frenzy1
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Not at this point. Ballard is a contributing member of a very very good team. If it works cap wise players like Ballard on the 3rd pairing give the Canucks superior depth compared to lottery teams. .
But he is protected by the solid depth the Canucks have. On a team with a budget he would need to play tougher minutes and I am not sure he has demonstrated that over the past couple of seasons. He is a legit number 4 dman, but he is overexposed beyond that - very much like Jackman in St. Louis.

His contract lowers his value considerably and has to be taken into account. 4.2 million for the next 3 seasons -assuming we have a season would make him the 2nd highest paid dman behind Pie who is due for a raise next year. He would be the highest paid dman this year.

He doesn't have that kind of value to teams on budgets. Teams not on budgets that can afford that would tend to be all at the cap ceiling already or just below. For what he does and his minutes he is overpaid by about 2 million per year.

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Frenzy1 View Post
But he is protected by the solid depth the Canucks have. On a team with a budget he would need to play tougher minutes and I am not sure he has demonstrated that over the past couple of seasons.
You mean teams like Phoenix and Florida?

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:25 PM
  #28
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I knew this would be proposed by a Nucks fan before I even opened the thread.
Not very hard seeing as the op is named "NYVanfan"

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:27 PM
  #29
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easy no for St.Louis. He was (at the time) the key piece to the Johnson trade. He's still young, big, and talented... Not gonna give up a good RW for a overpayed depth defenceman

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Old
11-12-2012, 02:31 PM
  #30
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Answer is no from St. Louis.

Blues seem pretty content to let Cole get a chance.

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Old
11-12-2012, 04:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by jroc86 View Post
Keep Ballard. When Edler walks July 1st youll be glad hes still around.

(I kid I kid ...)
This is actually probably the truest post in the whole thread despite you not being 100% serious.

The reality is, Ballard is a top 4 NHL defenseman who would probably play pretty well with Garrison. His main problem is that his skill set is not being properly utilized in Vancouver and he was immediately put behind Hamhuis and Edler with none of them being able to play the right-side well. Leaving Flordia he was the team leader in hits and blocked-shots and played a ton. I'd expect a similar performance if a healthy Ballard was given a chance.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
then i guess he's not going to TO
unless there's something like a Gardiner or JVR w that dump
but I believe there's a thread for this. Or a thousand threads. More threads than any single topic in the history of the internet.
To be technically precise, it's not even the biggest in HFBoards history. I think there's over 110 threads relating to the Phoenix franchise situation on the BoH board if you count all the sideshows, bonus microthreads, preludes, and other assorted "DVD extras".

EDIT: actually it's closer to 170! Final count appears to presently be 172.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
To be technically precise, it's not even the biggest in HFBoards history. I think there's over 110 threads relating to the Phoenix franchise situation on the BoH board if you count all the sideshows, bonus microthreads, preludes, and other assorted "DVD extras".

EDIT: actually it's closer to 170! Final count appears to presently be 172.
I honestly think counting the number of 3-ways and spinoffs, Luongo threads are probably close.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:40 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
St Loo could use a top 4 left side guy and Canucks could use a RW with size.
Both players have been under-utilized some on their current teams.
Both teams deal from strength to shore up weak areas.
Something here, but that is a big plus Vancouver is going to have to come up with to make this happen.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:58 PM
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... but what about Ballard + Raymond

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Old
11-12-2012, 09:03 PM
  #36
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... but what about Ballard + Raymond
Heck, take a 2nd too.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:10 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
i thought that might be the reaction
I had also thought there was some discord w Stewart in ST Loo, he lost his PP time, etc ..
but maybe i was mistaken.
For the record, Ballard has been decent, he's just been stuck behind Hamhuis and Edler on the left side .... I thought he might fit nicely in the top 6, maybe even paired w Petro ...

any interest if the canucks sweetened the pot?

ballard, 3rd for stewart, 6th or something ..?

then we could ship Luo to TO for futures alone
This thread is just proving that many threads have proven before. The Canucks really have no roster player, prospect or pick that has any value. Kesler or the twins as a pair may get us a late second round draft pick, but overall most of our players aren't worth much more than half a bag of used pucks.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:29 AM
  #38
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Although i agree that Stewart>Ballard, anyone calling Ballard an overpaid depth Dman is simply wrong. On most teams he'd be a #3 it's just a mix of injuries/poor coaching/and having Hamhuis and Edler playing the same side

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:47 AM
  #39
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We don't need a 3rd or 2nd pairing d-man as we have more than enough to fill those roles. If its not a player capable of playing with Petro than there is no point to give up assets for him. I would much rather have the Blues overpay to get someone that we know can fill the top pairing.

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:49 AM
  #40
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How about Stewart and McDonald for Kelser and Ballard?

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:16 AM
  #41
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How about Stewart and McDonald for Kelser and Ballard?
How about Kesler and Edler for Pietrangelo and Berglund?

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:23 AM
  #42
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woooooo..did Stewart value dropped from Erik Johnson to Ballard?

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #43
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Ballard's problem is Vignault. Real GMs know this.

If there is a season, Ballard is needed to play with and mentor Tanev.

In the event of a cap issue arising, Edler will go before Ballard. Ballard has never been shopped, that we know of. Edler remained unsigned at an opportune moment. This suggests to me that there is no sweetheart deal coming from the Canucks, to keep Edler. If there was desire to do so, the Canucks could have offered six years at 4.6 million per. Perhaps they did.

Edler for Grachev.

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11-13-2012, 11:27 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
This is actually probably the truest post in the whole thread despite you not being 100% serious.

The reality is, Ballard is a top 4 NHL defenseman who would probably play pretty well with Garrison. His main problem is that his skill set is not being properly utilized in Vancouver and he was immediately put behind Hamhuis and Edler with none of them being able to play the right-side well. Leaving Flordia he was the team leader in hits and blocked-shots and played a ton. I'd expect a similar performance if a healthy Ballard was given a chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsman View Post
Although i agree that Stewart>Ballard, anyone calling Ballard an overpaid depth Dman is simply wrong. On most teams he'd be a #3 it's just a mix of injuries/poor coaching/and having Hamhuis and Edler playing the same side
Then why not trading Hamhuis or Edler to allow the opportunity to Ballard to step up and become the defenseman he really is: a top 4 for Vancouver.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:30 AM
  #45
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Then why not trading Hamhuis or Edler to allow the opportunity to Ballard to step up and become the defenseman he really is: a top 4 for Vancouver.
Hamhuis is not going to be traded, he is our only true shut down defenseman, and took a hometown discount. I wouldn't be averse to trading Edler at the right price, though.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:44 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
This thread is just proving that many threads have proven before. The Canucks really have no roster player, prospect or pick that has any value. Kesler or the twins as a pair may get us a late second round draft pick, but overall most of our players aren't worth much more than half a bag of used pucks.
Yes your expendable crap, or UFA's aren't worth half as much as you would like to pretend they are when you're targeting 1st line talents and players who you also facetiously assume guarantee a Cup win. Stewart may not be guaranteed to do either, but that's the nature of all the threads you're referring to and the only difference in this one is that you think targeting someone who had a bad season with a bad player is fair value.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:45 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Ballard's problem is Vignault. Real GMs know this.

If there is a season, Ballard is needed to play with and mentor Tanev.

In the event of a cap issue arising, Edler will go before Ballard. Ballard has never been shopped, that we know of. Edler remained unsigned at an opportune moment. This suggests to me that there is no sweetheart deal coming from the Canucks, to keep Edler. If there was desire to do so, the Canucks could have offered six years at 4.6 million per. Perhaps they did.

Edler for Grachev.
Edler for Grachev? Done in a heartbeat.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:47 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
woooooo..did Stewart value dropped from Erik Johnson to Ballard?
No.

A major reason why this will never get done though (besides Ballard's awfully low value). The optics of the deal. The trades are close enough that it looks like your flipping Erik Johnson for Keith Ballard...ouch. No GM would ever pull that trigger.

Stewart tore it up for the Blues in the remainder of the 2010/2011 season. He definitely struggled last year, but also was re-signed and only on a one year contract. I don't see St. Louis giving up on him now, and I definitely don't see them taking Ballard's multi-year contract back.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:52 AM
  #49
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Edler for Grachev.
I really hope you're not serious.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:07 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
Yes your expendable crap, or UFA's aren't worth half as much as you would like to pretend they are when you're targeting 1st line talents and players who you also facetiously assume guarantee a Cup win. Stewart may not be guaranteed to do either, but that's the nature of all the threads you're referring to and the only difference in this one is that you think targeting someone who had a bad season with a bad player is fair value.
the sanctimony ran out with that last bit

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