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The All Purpose Lu Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

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Old
11-13-2012, 07:57 AM
  #301
bobbyflex
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Kulemin is too important to trade away, really? That's both sad and funny.
Kulemin alone? done. But when Canucks fans start adding Kadri + 1st + this + that then it gets ridiculous

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11-13-2012, 08:02 AM
  #302
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See not all of us who don't want lou, wanna tank. Tanking implies not trying and I want them to work. At some point though you need to find out if the kids you have can play in this league. And, it never hurts to have higher end talent. I mean unless you are prepared to tell me that the recent cuop winner like the Pens and Hawks would have won there cups withiout Crosby/Malkin/Fleury or Toews/Kane? And, last time I checked yopur dynamic duo cam from the very top end of the draft too, right?
See...here is the thing, if it costs Lupul and a protected 1st (either top10 or playoffs), how is it a risk? Lupul is replaced by JVR and at very worst you are giving an eleventh pick for a starting goalie. So if your true goal is to win while developing the kids...how is this not good?

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11-13-2012, 08:07 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Kulemin alone? done. But when Canucks fans start adding Kadri + 1st + this + that then it gets ridiculous
Since when has a talented, proven starting goalie been traded for a 3rd liner? That's what he would be as a Canuck.

What do you think of my proposal on page 11?

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11-13-2012, 08:16 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Since when has a talented, proven starting goalie been traded for a 3rd liner? That's what he would be as a Canuck.

What do you think of my proposal on page 11?
here's the thing:

1) the leafs are very unlikely to move JVR after just acquiring him. Burke has had a man crush on this guy for ages and now finally has him.
2) I also highly doubt Lupul gets moved after being one of the leafs top forwards last year and having phenomenal chemistry with Kessel
3) I also highly doubt Leafs trade any more 1st round picks (even if top-10 protected) while Burke is GM after receiving all the flack he got for trading two 1sts for Kessel

I honestly think the trade will revolve around Bozak as being the main piece while adding an attractive prospect and a 2nd round pick. So something like:

Bozak + Ashton/Kadri/Colborne/Finn + 2nd

and yes, Rielly and Gardiner are off limits

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11-13-2012, 08:20 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
To

Luongo
Raymond

To

JVR/Lupul
Franson
Top-10 protected 2013 1st round pick
2013 4th round pick

VAN then flips a pick to someone (Florida?) for a backup goalie.

i dont see burke moving jvr seeing as he just acquired him and i certainly dont see him moving lupul.

even with the first being conditional i just dont see burke parting with it.

franson and the 4th are just throw ins. i dont think vancouver or toronto will lose sleep over either of them.

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11-13-2012, 08:39 AM
  #306
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If it's a ticking time bomb, no GM should want it. Period. Not even at a discount. In other words, I don't view it at all like that, and judging from the _interest_ from at least 5 teams, other GMs don't either.



That contract isn't about sluffing off the undesirable years on someone else. It's to cheat the system. Meaning, the destination team _also_ gets to cheat the system. It's a great contract that either team benefits from.



Really, the Canucks were set up to operate with Luongo long-term. They would have the benefit of a cheater BDC for the life of his career. In a weird way, it's unfortunate that Schneider did emerge because they can't also sign him to the same deal, and again skirt the system.
I'm not buying the line of thinking that goes "this is a great contract and anyone would be happy to have it". If that was the case, the Canucks would have signed Schneider to a similar deal. If you are correct, the Canucks would be better served to trade Schneider away simply because he's not on one of these contracts and just keep Luongo for the long term.

But everyone knows that's not going to happen. The Canucks want to move that deal off their books. That contract isn't nearly as good as you say it is. If the Canucks manage to move Luongo for anything of real value they're going to come out of this whole deal like bandits. They will have skirted the salary cap, managed to pay Luongo huge money while keeping his cap artificially low. Those days of the contract are over. At this point the cap savings are minimal and the contract continues until well past its best before date.

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11-13-2012, 08:51 AM
  #307
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But that's just it the "door" isn't open to all other teams, not with his contract clauses. He has said he would be open to other markets yes, but prefers a hockey market. I am in noway bashing Clb. here, but do you see Lou going there? I don't. however unless the list grows to where he is willing to go, the return will reflect that, is all I am saying. I never, said the market would be set by BUrke. I said it will be affectted as to how many teams are on his list.



That's just it, he doesn't have a list. So we are inferring what his list will be based on the rumours of the teams that have approached the Canucks. Which is anything but conclusive. I'm not even sure he's OK'd anyone but FLA. Coincidentally, we know that he has had a meeting with Tallon, but not with anyone else. Not even TO.



As to CLB. I see them as every bit as viable as TO. They have the better assets to deal, and John Davidson going there brings them instant legitimacy. It's not ideal, but neither is TO if you think about it.

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11-13-2012, 09:07 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
I'm not buying the line of thinking that goes "this is a great contract and anyone would be happy to have it". If that was the case, the Canucks would have signed Schneider to a similar deal. If you are correct, the Canucks would be better served to trade Schneider away simply because he's not on one of these contracts and just keep Luongo for the long term.


Could it be that Lu is being traded because of the age difference between the two? Or that Lu didn't want to block Schneider's progression? Or that Lu didn't want to share the crease as a starter? Regardless of the contract? Nah. Impossible. Far more believable to put the blame on Gillis and Gilman, who in their own right are great negotiators, and just surmise that they went against type and flubbed this deal... Yeah, no.



On signing Schneider to the same deal: Put it this way, if there was an opportunity to sign Schneider to such a deal _after_ he had proven he could carry the starter's load during his current contract (3 yrs), Gillis would be remiss _not_ to do it. Why not try to abuse the cap if you can?



I really think you do not understand BDCs and their benefit.



Quote:
But everyone knows that's not going to happen. The Canucks want to move that deal off their books. That contract isn't nearly as good as you say it is. If the Canucks manage to move Luongo for anything of real value they're going to come out of this whole deal like bandits. They will have skirted the salary cap, managed to pay Luongo huge money while keeping his cap artificially low. Those days of the contract are over. At this point the cap savings are minimal and the contract continues until well past its best before date.



It's not going to happen because they will close the loophole within this CBA.



Why would any rich team "want" to move that type of a contract off their team? These contracts directly benefit such teams. Further, they won't be allowed anymore. They are too good to continue, so people should want to get rid of the ones they do have anyways? Illogical. Gillis and Gilman knew exactly what they were doing. They have a history now of getting their players on excellent deals, and this is just another example. So good in fact, that people still don't understand how good.



Perhaps after the loophole is closed, only then will people realize just how much these deals helped cheat the cap.

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11-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
i dont see burke moving jvr seeing as he just acquired him and i certainly dont see him moving lupul.

even with the first being conditional i just dont see burke parting with it.

franson and the 4th are just throw ins. i dont think vancouver or toronto will lose sleep over either of them.
all we know -- aside from a lot of conjecture on both sides about what we see our GMs doing or not -- is that Gillis' initial asking price was very high. This was repored widely by sources close to multiple teams.
Then there was that rumour -- don't know how real it was -- that at last deadline the price was Bozak, Gardiner, Frattin and a 1st (#5 OA.)

then this was the most recent from Gillis, from this week
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=645327

"When you take an All-Star player off your team, you have to do that with a lot of faith that you're improving in different areas. And, you know, I don't see that big of an issue if Roberto is with us. I don't see that as an issue at all. I think he's a true professional and I know he and Cory [Schneider] have a great relationship. You know, that may end up being the plan depending on when we get started. I think they would both be fine with it. We're going to do what is best for our hockey team. We're going to make sure we're in the best position to win the Stanley Cup and that may be with both goaltenders."

So putting all the conjecture aside, I think it's fair to read from that last Spring until now, Gillis has a very high asking price, and that if that's not met, he is content keeping both goalies.

In my view, this makes it extremely unlikely that we see something like:
Bozak + Ashton/Kadri/Colborne/Finn + 2nd

You have to give to get, and without being contentious about it, IMO Leaflander is the only TO fan who's demonstrated understanding of this.

Many of you of course will say that's all I'm prepared to give, and otherwise pass -- and that's fine, but i would respectfully suggest that you're underestimating the impact a legit goalie can have on the franchise.

Roberto turned the Canucks around almost single-handedly, and put them on a growth track, where they went from out of the playoffs with 88 pts to 117 pts and in the finals 3 years later. Sure they had other growing pieces but they also shed key pieces that year -- Naslund, Morrison, Ohlund, later Mitchell ... lots of parts going in & out, but Luongo was by far the most impactful piece added to the puzzle.

He is not in decline -- his #s are stable -- and history has shown goalies of his calibre are effective into his their late 30s. Anyway, this has been hashed & re-hashed, my main point is Gillis is well aware of these facts, and I believe other GMs are too, and he will not come cheap.

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11-13-2012, 09:33 AM
  #310
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See...here is the thing, if it costs Lupul and a protected 1st (either top10 or playoffs), how is it a risk? Lupul is replaced by JVR and at very worst you are giving an eleventh pick for a starting goalie. So if your true goal is to win while developing the kids...how is this not good?
I never said I had a problem, with trading a protected pick. Lupul I would prefer to hand onto as well as JVR. That being said i do realize you have to give up something to get something. However, we are nowhere good enough as a team or deep enough prospect wise to sell the farm for Lou. Thats why all along I have said at the right right price, for the Leafs. Not free, not a bag of pucks, he is a world class player, just not our last piece. Trading for him at a premium, could keep us a middling team is what I am trying to say. I wanna win a cup, more often then not that takes bigtime players. Sometimes those can be had at the middle to the end of the 1st rd. nmore often then not they are taken much higher.

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11-13-2012, 09:41 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
That's just it, he doesn't have a list. So we are inferring what his list will be based on the rumours of the teams that have approached the Canucks. Which is anything but conclusive. I'm not even sure he's OK'd anyone but FLA. Coincidentally, we know that he has had a meeting with Tallon, but not with anyone else. Not even TO.



As to CLB. I see them as every bit as viable as TO. They have the better assets to deal, and John Davidson going there brings them instant legitimacy. It's not ideal, but neither is TO if you think about it.
i am not saying Tor. is viable, personally I think he could be swayed to play there, but that is not what I want. i want a guy who wants to go there. I do not think Clb,, is viable, you do but that is based on returnable assets then a desired hockey market that lou says he wants, outside of Fla, obviously. Aslo I know he doesn't have a list I said if he gave Gillis a list of say ten teams, it would help Gillis maxinize his return. maybe my replies are not being clear enough, maybe they are being taking out of context, who knows?

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11-13-2012, 10:06 AM
  #312
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i am not saying Tor. is viable, personally I think he could be swayed to play there, but that is not what I want. i want a guy who wants to go there. I do not think Clb,, is viable, you do but that is based on returnable assets then a desired hockey market that lou says he wants, outside of Fla, obviously. Aslo I know he doesn't have a list I said if he gave Gillis a list of say ten teams, it would help Gillis maxinize his return. maybe my replies are not being clear enough, maybe they are being taking out of context, who knows?



I think _not_ providing a list to Gillis already helps management maximize return. Right now, there are no restrictions. CLB, EDM, CHI, TOR, FLA etc.. are all fair game. So with no list, Gillis can hear offers from anyone.



CLB is every bit as viable as TO IMO. Lu may have said he insists on a hockey market (although you will have to point me to a quote), but does he want to be a starter more? If for instance Lu feels he must leave quickly, and TO et al. refuse to pay the price but CLB is willing, I could see Gillis pushing CLB as a destination to Luongo. Does it get done? Probably not, but maybe wants to leave bad enough that he is willing to move...



Basically, once FLA is out of the picture, Lu will have to weigh his options. Does he insist on a hockey market? Is it enough for him to just start somewhere? Or does he need both and more?



I do understand your point about not wanting to sway Luongo to come to TO. That's a reasonable POV. However, right now every team knows that it's FLA or them. That could be TO, EDM, CHI, CLB or other... they are all behind FLA in the pecking order IMO.

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11-13-2012, 10:40 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I think _not_ providing a list to Gillis already helps management maximize return. Right now, there are no restrictions. CLB, EDM, CHI, TOR, FLA etc.. are all fair game. So with no list, Gillis can hear offers from anyone.



CLB is every bit as viable as TO IMO. Lu may have said he insists on a hockey market (although you will have to point me to a quote), but does he want to be a starter more? If for instance Lu feels he must leave quickly, and TO et al. refuse to pay the price but CLB is willing, I could see Gillis pushing CLB as a destination to Luongo. Does it get done? Probably not, but maybe wants to leave bad enough that he is willing to move...



Basically, once FLA is out of the picture, Lu will have to weigh his options. Does he insist on a hockey market? Is it enough for him to just start somewhere? Or does he need both and more?



I do understand your point about not wanting to sway Luongo to come to TO. That's a reasonable POV. However, right now every team knows that it's FLA or them. That could be TO, EDM, CHI, CLB or other... they are all behind FLA in the pecking order IMO.
"I think playing in a hockey market is great," said Luongo. "Playing in one is a preference for sure. Playing in a place like Florida with anonymity - to go out somewhere and have a dinner with your family and relax and stuff is great. When you're on the ice, being able to play in a building that's rocking, sold out and the fans are passionate about their team - as a hockey player you always want to be in that type of market."

Here is a quote about his preference from a TSN interview, as i said his pfeernce is to play in a hockey market. Not saying he won't go elsewhere just saying thats what it is. I don't see Edm or Chitown as prefered gillis choices as Lou could directly make him look foolish. I have said it before, my wanting him at the right price has more to do with where the leafgs are now and what then can afford to give up going forward. We are not one player away, we are him plus others. That has to be kept in my mind as a leaf fan. That has nothing to do with Lou as a player. Like I said before, he won't go for as little as Leaf fans want but I also don't think he gets as much as Nucks would like, I think it will be somewhere in between. And so do many others, but in the end we will see what he gets traded for.

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11-13-2012, 10:59 AM
  #314
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"I think playing in a hockey market is great," said Luongo. "Playing in one is a preference for sure. Playing in a place like Florida with anonymity - to go out somewhere and have a dinner with your family and relax and stuff is great. When you're on the ice, being able to play in a building that's rocking, sold out and the fans are passionate about their team - as a hockey player you always want to be in that type of market."

Here is a quote about his preference from a TSN interview, as i said his pfeernce is to play in a hockey market. Not saying he won't go elsewhere just saying thats what it is. I don't see Edm or Chitown as prefered gillis choices as Lou could directly make him look foolish. I have said it before, my wanting him at the right price has more to do with where the leafgs are now and what then can afford to give up going forward. We are not one player away, we are him plus others. That has to be kept in my mind as a leaf fan. That has nothing to do with Lou as a player. Like I said before, he won't go for as little as Leaf fans want but I also don't think he gets as much as Nucks would like, I think it will be somewhere in between. And so do many others, but in the end we will see what he gets traded for.
While this is entirely true, would you not say that one of the glaring holes in our team is goaltending? We have a chance to fix that. I truely think that alot of fans have become so used to losing that they all just assume we are set to draft top 5 again...and that is more valuable than winning. It is just as plausable that Reimer improves just enough to get us to 9th in the east. That means we draft outside of the tio 10, we have missed again and in all likelyhood the team is blown up for a total rebuild.

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11-13-2012, 11:11 AM
  #315
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While this is entirely true, would you not say that one of the glaring holes in our team is goaltending? We have a chance to fix that. I truely think that alot of fans have become so used to losing that they all just assume we are set to draft top 5 again...and that is more valuable than winning. It is just as plausable that Reimer improves just enough to get us to 9th in the east. That means we draft outside of the tio 10, we have missed again and in all likelyhood the team is blown up for a total rebuild.
Oh, I think we could use a goaltending upgrade, but i also don't think Reimer is a total sieve. His numbers before injury were better than average, but he struggled upon his return. Though I think Wilson handled the situation poorly. He was thrown back as soon as cleared, he should have practised for a bit, IMHO. Do I want another bluechip prospect(and yes I think Rielly is one) preferably a centre, yes. Do I wanna win yes, but I am not willing to sell the farm for Lou, we are not over all good or deep enough for that. If he was the final piece great, but odds are we aren't hitting the UFA grand slam, nor should a team be counted on to be built that way. We arte basically in a full blown rebuild, IMO, whether it is admitted or not. I h=guess after this long drawn out reply i am saying before the farm is sold, I would rather let the cards fall where they may. I mean look at Ott. last year, nobody can say they saw that coming, and Anderson is not a top ten starter. If we finish outside of the top ten, because of improved team, defensive and goaltender play, great. but if we trade the farm for Lou and finish 11th because one player allowed us to that is not getting better, it doesn't take us closer to the end goal, imo. I could be wrong and am several times a day, lol. it is just the way I see it. But i do respect what you are saying, even if it doesn't seem that way.

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11-13-2012, 11:19 AM
  #316
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Oh, I think we could use a goaltending upgrade, but i also don't think Reimer is a total sieve. His numbers before injury were better than average, but he struggled upon his return. Though I think Wilson handled the situation poorly. He was thrown back as soon as cleared, he should have practised for a bit, IMHO. Do I want another bluechip prospect(and yes I think Rielly is one) preferably a centre, yes. Do I wanna win yes, but I am not willing to sell the farm for Lou, we are not over all good or deep enough for that. If he was the final piece great, but odds are we aren't hitting the UFA grand slam, nor should a team be counted on to be built that way. We arte basically in a full blown rebuild, IMO, whether it is admitted or not. I h=guess after this long drawn out reply i am saying before the farm is sold, I would rather let the cards fall where they may. I mean look at Ott. last year, nobody can say they saw that coming, and Anderson is not a top ten starter. If we finish outside of the top ten, because of improved team, defensive and goaltender play, great. but if we trade the farm for Lou and finish 11th because one player allowed us to that is not getting better, it doesn't take us closer to the end goal, imo. I could be wrong and am several times a day, lol. it is just the way I see it. But i do respect what you are saying, even if it doesn't seem that way.
Ok...all good points. My last question, if Reimer turns out to be meh, when do we get our goalie?

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11-13-2012, 11:21 AM
  #317
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"I think playing in a hockey market is great," said Luongo. "Playing in one is a preference for sure. Playing in a place like Florida with anonymity - to go out somewhere and have a dinner with your family and relax and stuff is great. When you're on the ice, being able to play in a building that's rocking, sold out and the fans are passionate about their team - as a hockey player you always want to be in that type of market."

Here is a quote about his preference from a TSN interview, as i said his pfeernce is to play in a hockey market. Not saying he won't go elsewhere just saying thats what it is. I don't see Edm or Chitown as prefered gillis choices as Lou could directly make him look foolish. I have said it before, my wanting him at the right price has more to do with where the leafgs are now and what then can afford to give up going forward. We are not one player away, we are him plus others. That has to be kept in my mind as a leaf fan. That has nothing to do with Lou as a player. Like I said before, he won't go for as little as Leaf fans want but I also don't think he gets as much as Nucks would like, I think it will be somewhere in between. And so do many others, but in the end we will see what he gets traded for.



Couple of things here:



- Saying Gillis and Burke might have to meet in the middle isn't exactly groundbreaking. There will be compromise. However, Gillis has to bring in value commensurate of Luongo's calibre. So Burke can start as low as he wants, but until he offers up a certain amount of value, his offers won't be entertained. And they haven't been... No meeting between Lu and Burke has occurred.



- If you feel the Leafs aren't at the point of bringing in a talent the level of Luongo, I won't fault you for it. Maybe they aren't. But if Burke is going to bid, he's doing it because he feels TO is ready. Once that happens, there are no half measures. I don't imagine Gillis would care if Burke needed Luongo for a song, just because he had trepidations about his team's status. Either he's all in, or he's out IMO.



- I just point this out because you again cited CLB and EDM as non-ideal destinations, for one reason or another. Actually, _every_ destination besides FLA is non-ideal here, even TO. So this point is meaningless I should think.



- Lastly, Luongo does not _insist_ on a hockey market. Which was my point. He prefers, but he does not demand. Essentially, he props both types of locals in his quotes. He expresses the ease of daily life living in a place like FLA, where hockey is not king, and says there are positives to that as well. At the same time, he wants passionate fans. It will be difficult for him to get both from the same team. Lu will have to give up one thing to get the other. All that matters is that the overall package is enough to entice him to join that team. That's ultimately what matters.

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11-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #318
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I don't follow here. Toronto is a unique team that's finished bottom ten the past 5 years, and twice bottom five, most recently last year. I mean, it's a ****** situation for Toronto but they are more or less a team that has a good chance of winning the draft lottery. If one guy expresses his opinion based on facts, even if they aren't flattering they are still facts. I'm not so sure you would bat an eyelash if a Blue Jackets fan (sorry Columbus) said that. Just because it comes from a Canucks fan doesn't make it any less true. Furthermore, I find it fairly comical you make such a statement filled with biting sarcasm and don't waste any time scolding a fan base based on one person's opinion.
I suppose if we lived in a world where people made their life decisions based on one factor you would be quite correct, however life is not that black and white. So yes he has an opinion based on one fact and overlooked all the others, this is your notion of a quality opinion ?

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11-13-2012, 11:56 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
I suppose if we lived in a world where people made their life decisions based on one factor you would be quite correct, however life is not that black and white. So yes he has an opinion based on one fact and overlooked all the others, this is your notion of a quality opinion ?
I wouldn't say Columbus is off the table, though. The media is less aggressive there, the taxes are lower, etc. One could make a reasonable argument for virtually anywhere, and with the exception of Florida, none of us have a clue what teams he would or wouldn't waive for.

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11-13-2012, 12:14 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Couple of things here:



- Saying Gillis and Burke might have to meet in the middle isn't exactly groundbreaking. There will be compromise. However, Gillis has to bring in value commensurate of Luongo's calibre. So Burke can start as low as he wants, but until he offers up a certain amount of value, his offers won't be entertained. And they haven't been... No meeting between Lu and Burke has occurred.



- If you feel the Leafs aren't at the point of bringing in a talent the level of Luongo, I won't fault you for it. Maybe they aren't. But if Burke is going to bid, he's doing it because he feels TO is ready. Once that happens, there are no half measures. I don't imagine Gillis would care if Burke needed Luongo for a song, just because he had trepidations about his team's status. Either he's all in, or he's out IMO.



- I just point this out because you again cited CLB and EDM as non-ideal destinations, for one reason or another. Actually, _every_ destination besides FLA is non-ideal here, even TO. So this point is meaningless I should think.



- Lastly, Luongo does not _insist_ on a hockey market. Which was my point. He prefers, but he does not demand. Essentially, he props both types of locals in his quotes. He expresses the ease of daily life living in a place like FLA, where hockey is not king, and says there are positives to that as well. At the same time, he wants passionate fans. It will be difficult for him to get both from the same team. Lu will have to give up one thing to get the other. All that matters is that the overall package is enough to entice him to join that team. That's ultimately what matters.
OK, never ever did I say insist, i said prefer, there is a difference.

I never said Burke and Gillis meet in the middle I was stating what i think Lou goes for, period. Not as low as Leaf fans think, though we aren't the only ones who would prefer to obtain him for a song. As i don't think he will fetch what Nucks fan think he should, no matter where that is. This just seems more often then not the reality of the cap era.

-Yes Fla is his only choice so far. However, Edm and Chitown are not preferable destinations, general rule of thumb is not to deal impact players in you division or conference(Roy to Col, comes to mind). If Van lost to Chi or Edm in the playoffs, or were beat out for the playoffs, fans would scream murder, you will say not, but it is my opinion. I also said Clb is viable to you for what you think they would pay, That has no bearing on Lou and personally i think most will agree that his last choice or close would be there. This team has been continued to be one of the most mismanaged franchises in hockey.

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11-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
i am not saying Tor. is viable, personally I think he could be swayed to play there, but that is not what I want. i want a guy who wants to go there. I do not think Clb,, is viable, you do but that is based on returnable assets then a desired hockey market that lou says he wants, outside of Fla, obviously. Aslo I know he doesn't have a list I said if he gave Gillis a list of say ten teams, it would help Gillis maxinize his return. maybe my replies are not being clear enough, maybe they are being taking out of context, who knows?
What would a list matter, Gillis will only go to Luongo WHEN he has received an offer he likes.

A list does nothing to help that.

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11-13-2012, 12:32 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ok...all good points. My last question, if Reimer turns out to be meh, when do we get our goalie?
well that is the million dollar question isn't it? this is why i am on the fence about Lou, like I said at the right price, yes. And some will jump on me for that but fine. We can only give up so much or we will find ourselves in this viscious circle again soon. I am not sure your age, but i have seen the Leafs do this time and time again, trading the future for the present, and here we are again. My honest answer is I don't know. I don't wanna say free agency, but I suppose more then just lou could be had via trade. If Cgy drops the bomb, they have to blow it up sooner then later, right? Kipper might be able to be had.

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11-13-2012, 12:37 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
What would a list matter, Gillis will only go to Luongo WHEN he has received an offer he likes.

A list does nothing to help that.
List help drive up the price. If teams 1 thru 10 lets say are on said list and 4 teams make offers, it is easier for Gillis to say to a Gm well, sorry but I have this over there that is better, let me know if you wanna improve your offer. One team at a time creates sense of urgency, especially if said teamsare direct rivals. A list also allows him to move him to any team on the list without having to say let me see what Lou says. I believe they have advantages, you don't fair enough

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11-13-2012, 12:51 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
well that is the million dollar question isn't it? this is why i am on the fence about Lou, like I said at the right price, yes. And some will jump on me for that but fine. We can only give up so much or we will find ourselves in this viscious circle again soon. I am not sure your age, but i have seen the Leafs do this time and time again, trading the future for the present, and here we are again. My honest answer is I don't know. I don't wanna say free agency, but I suppose more then just lou could be had via trade. If Cgy drops the bomb, they have to blow it up sooner then later, right? Kipper might be able to be had.
I will just say this, my father worked for the Leafs orginization when i was a child, his 4 stanley cup rings are now in a case on my mantle. I have a picture of myself sitting on King Clancy's knee at the Leafs Christmas party in the Gardens as well as Christmas cards signed by Harold Ballard. My Godfather is none other than the most successful Leafs goalie of all time. That is why it pains me when i hear things like "it's better to lose than bring in a super qualified goalie". Take a look at recent history and tell me that teams don't move 1st round picks. Was Columbus on the cusp of contention when they brought in Carter? Lindback just went for a pile of picks...you think Tampa is odds on to win the cup? Varlomov was traded for a 1st and a second... i'd take Luongo 8 days a week over Varlomov. My point is, there are GM's willing to trade picks to upgrade their teams, Burke has a chance to vastly upgrade an area of severe concern here and a protected pick makes you run away? Lupul, a protected 1st and a 4th is miles away from "selling the farm" when the return is pretty much guranteed to have a bigger impact than what you are trading.

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11-13-2012, 01:10 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I will just say this, my father worked for the Leafs orginization when i was a child, his 4 stanley cup rings are now in a case on my mantle. I have a picture of myself sitting on King Clancy's knee at the Leafs Christmas party in the Gardens as well as Christmas cards signed by Harold Ballard. My Godfather is none other than the most successful Leafs goalie of all time. That is why it pains me when i hear things like "it's better to lose than bring in a super qualified goalie". Take a look at recent history and tell me that teams don't move 1st round picks. Was Columbus on the cusp of contention when they brought in Carter? Lindback just went for a pile of picks...you think Tampa is odds on to win the cup? Varlomov was traded for a 1st and a second... i'd take Luongo 8 days a week over Varlomov. My point is, there are GM's willing to trade picks to upgrade their teams, Burke has a chance to vastly upgrade an area of severe concern here and a protected pick makes you run away? Lupul, a protected 1st and a 4th is miles away from "selling the farm" when the return is pretty much guranteed to have a bigger impact than what you are trading.
I hope you don't think my asking age was an insult, just on the other board i used to go on well, fans that wanted to sell the future were young. I don't want to see the leafs lose anymore then you, even though i can't claim any of the things to the involved history as you do. I can only say that i love the leafs enough the one time as an Adult i got to got to the grand old lady to watch a game I got butterflies and tears. This is the only reason I don't wanna sell the future for one player. I also stated before you proposed payment, I have no issues with. i was more referring to what a lot of expected returns i had read on here were. Now to your pointed turn of teams like TB and Col, who have traded firsts for goalies, well I think it is fair to say they have a better centre situation then we do. If that makes sense, lol?

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