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Waning fan passion - a growing concern

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:21 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
My passion for the sport has slowly declined these past yrs even before this lockout. The game has gotten boring in their attempt to achieve perceived parity.
I would go to 10 to 15 Sharks games a year, but about 3 years ago the game got noticeably boring. Maybe 3 or 4 games would be somewhat entertaining. Last year was the first time in my hockey life (over 40 years) that I didn't attend a game. The cost of going to a game and the return I was getting for my money wasn't worth it anymore. Thankfully we have affordable entertaining hockey with the SF Bulls.

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11-13-2012, 03:28 PM
  #77
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Traditional markets are going to be OK with fan support, no matter how long the lockout lasts. I'd like to see hockey come back ASAP, but I'm not going to stop being a Jets fan if it doesn't. Nor are Leafs fans, or Habs fans, or Bruins fans, etc.

The only places this is a legitimate concern are struggling (non-traditional) markets. Good. **** 'em. Let the entire world see how apathetic the fans are in a place like Phoenix, so there's no need to debate whether they should be relocated or not.

I'm actually hoping some of these teams get even worse attendance after the lockout so we can finally be rid of them once and for all.
I hope every team gets worse attendance after this. I hope the fans that do go are hostile and I hope that all of this results in the destruction of the league. Perhaps then all parties will realize how foolish they've been.

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11-13-2012, 03:48 PM
  #78
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I hope every team gets worse attendance after this. I hope the fans that do go are hostile and I hope that all of this results in the destruction of the league. Perhaps then all parties will realize how foolish they've been.
Do you really think that's going to happen here in Winnipeg? We've waited so long to get a team back, people are still going to be climbing all over each other to pay top dollar for any season tickets that are given up due to the lockout. It's not going to change anything.

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11-13-2012, 04:06 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
Traditional markets are going to be OK with fan support, no matter how long the lockout lasts. I'd like to see hockey come back ASAP, but I'm not going to stop being a Jets fan if it doesn't. Nor are Leafs fans, or Habs fans, or Bruins fans, etc.

The only places this is a legitimate concern are struggling (non-traditional) markets. Good. **** 'em. Let the entire world see how apathetic the fans are in a place like Phoenix, so there's no need to debate whether they should be relocated or not.

I'm actually hoping some of these teams get even worse attendance after the lockout so we can finally be rid of them once and for all.
Actually, Carolina, Atlanta, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, San Jose, Tampa Bay Phoenix and Florida all saw increases in attendance from the 03-04 season to the 05-06 season. The five "non-traditional" markets that saw decreases were Dallas, New Jersey, St. Louis, Washington and Columbus. Colorado and LA were stagnant.
So we have 9 that saw an increase, 5 that did not and 2 that were stagnant.

As for "traditional" markets, Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, Minnesota, Ottawa, Calgary, Buffalo, Chicago and the Rangers all saw increases, while Edmonton and the Islanders decreased and Detroit and Vancouver remained static.

This most likely had to do with League wide increase in attendance from 03-04 to 05-06. Funny- the NHL attendance actually increased in the seasons between the lockout.

I'm not going to analyze these numbers (yet), but they suggest that you are wrong.


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11-13-2012, 04:44 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Actually, Carolina, Atlanta, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, San Jose, Tampa Bay Phoenix and Florida all saw increases in attendance from the 03-04 season to the 05-06 season.
The only reason attendance (#s) increased was that the Sharks reformatted a few things around the arena and added a bunch of seats. (Including moving the broadcasters -- home/away TV, radio -- from the bottom of the upper rim to the "roof".)

Sharks have pretty much sold out every RS/playoff game since.

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11-13-2012, 04:51 PM
  #81
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I have to admit, it would be a lot harder to swallow this if the Devil players were making inane statements to the media (a la Crosby and Toews) or if Vanderbeek was one of the hypocritical hard-liners ala Jacobs/Leipold, etc. Since the Devils have more or less been quiet through this whole thing I can go back to games with a clean conscience when this is over since me not going primarily hurts my team and not the league, though I do hope the league and players in general feel some hurt from this.

That said, if I weren't getting a sweet deal on season tickets ($22 per game, on the aisle smack behind the net) it might be a different story and I'd make more of a point to stay away or only buy tickets on the secondary market.


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Old
11-13-2012, 04:55 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CarlWinslow View Post
I hope every team gets worse attendance after this. I hope the fans that do go are hostile and I hope that all of this results in the destruction of the league. Perhaps then all parties will realize how foolish they've been.
I wouldn't go that far but decreased attendance and fan backlash a la baseball in '95 would ultimately get the message through, the way it did in that sport.

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11-13-2012, 04:57 PM
  #83
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I'm pissed off about the lockout, especially at how Donald Fehr and some of the players are handling it (Toews), but I like hockey too much to stop watching. I've been watching the NHL Network every once in a while, plus there's football and basketball, but I'm fiending for some live hockey dammit!


Last edited by TwistedWrister90: 11-13-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 05:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
The only reason attendance (#s) increased was that the Sharks reformatted a few things around the arena and added a bunch of seats. (Including moving the broadcasters -- home/away TV, radio -- from the bottom of the upper rim to the "roof".)

Sharks have pretty much sold out every RS/playoff game since.
As long as they did not go down, my point still stands.

Thank you for providing the context of the situation though.

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11-13-2012, 05:08 PM
  #85
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I live in an area where NHL hockey is (was) just a part of life in the winter.

I am personally seeing interest fading, disillusionment and downright resentment around here. I'm feeling it too.

I really hope fans follow MLB fans' footsteps and that we see empty arenas everywhere. I doubt this happens in traditional markets but I could very well see empty seats in non-traditional ones (we already do).

At this point, for me to come back and love the NHL the way I used to is for Bettman and Fehr to leave and be replaced by people who love the game of hockey and want to see it prosper and be as exciting as possible for fans first and foremost.

Until that happens, it's just a business for me.

And as sad as this is, I'm not going to lie. Seeing empty seats everywhere when this resumes would make me very, very happy.

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11-13-2012, 06:16 PM
  #86
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You're going to see a lot more of this as this lockout drags on and on. Who wants to support a league that can't even get a CBA signed on time?

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11-13-2012, 06:18 PM
  #87
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Yeah, there's simply no way I'm watching NHL hockey at least in the first year after this lockout. I guess you can argue that I'll come back around eventually, but I don't know.

For me, it's this: I hate these players. I can't root for them. They're making far more than the market indicates they should, they're crying about it, they don't understand math, they pose for the media every ten seconds, they make so much money it's almost unconscionable while our country spins deeper and deeper into inequality, they've never worked a real job a day in their lives, got made for life at age 18, don't have the mental attention or focus to understand the actual negotiations going on and yet still want to sit there misinformedly preaching to us about it. They're shallow, stupid, petulant and antagonistic. They're not even fighting for the best deal anymore, everybody knows that deal came and went on November 2, they're fighting for some vague imagined honor thing as though anything about this fight was honorable. They're still fighting because $500M means so little to them that it's more worth it to win the pissing match. I hate them and I have no interest in watching a single one of their whiny ***** skate around while the dumb masses shower them with more money than any of the rest of us would see in a thousand lifetimes. It makes me sick. I have no interest in their ********.

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11-13-2012, 06:22 PM
  #88
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I would do the same thing but they would just call one of the 8000 people on the waiting list! Fans WILL be back as strong as ever.
In Canada? Yes, but in the US? I doubt it, not since it's less popular, but the turnoff, seems to be harder down here, than in Canada.

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11-13-2012, 06:42 PM
  #89
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I think its naive to think fans will come back stronger than ever. Like I posted in my previous post, the last lockout, there were fundamental problems with the league and it needed a new economic system to bring parity to the league. Fans in a sense understood why the lockout had to happen.

IMO, this current lockout is a pointless pissing match between owners and players thus fan apathy is greater and I believe the repercussions of the post-2012 lockout will be in the same level/category as what we witnessed in MLB after 1994 strike.

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11-13-2012, 06:58 PM
  #90
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Both sides look crazy to me. Bettman is stubborn. The PA hired someone who is just as stubborn, perhaps in response. Predictably, both sides now appear irreconcilable.

The NHL is a gate driven league, and a decrease of 10% in attendace would be disastrous. But those two clowns dont seem to be concerned about stuff like that. Its so childish.


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11-13-2012, 07:02 PM
  #91
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I've been a hardcore hockey fan for over 35 years. I still love the sport but no longer care much about the NHL. I'll watch a game if it's on TV but no more Center Ice, jerseys, ect. And this has nothing to do with the lockout. Trust me, Gary Bettman doesn't give two ***** about the fans.
Does Fehr? The owners? Players? Or is this all just a result of one man's hatred for hockey fans?

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11-13-2012, 08:28 PM
  #92
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With the declining entertainment value that is today's defense-oriented, gigantic goalie equipment game, it is no wonder people's passion for hockey has decreased. Throw in a lost season here and there and that kills a helluva lot of passion all at once.

I used to be glued to every single televised NHL game - couldn't get enough of it. These days, with many nights seeing a mind-numbing 2-1 game with little excitement, I typically don't even watch games not involving the Oilers. I will go out of my way to see Oiler games but even many of their games are snoozers.

The NHL needs to be like the NBA and recognize when entertainment value has been eroded. They added a 24 second clock because fans were tired of 18-17 games and basketball is much more popular these days. The NHL needs to address the defense and huge goalie equipment or risk an eroding fan base as well.

Oh yeah - and stop throwing away seasons.

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11-14-2012, 08:37 AM
  #93
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Does Fehr? The owners? Players? Or is this all just a result of one man's hatred for hockey fans?
It's Bettman. He doesn't care about the fans. That's always bad news no matter what the sport. And the only fans I don't care for are the ones who think people who live south of St.Louis don't have any right to enjoy NHL hockey.

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11-14-2012, 09:14 AM
  #94
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It's Bettman. He doesn't care about the fans. That's always bad news no matter what the sport. And the only fans I don't care for are the ones who think people who live south of St.Louis don't have any right to enjoy NHL hockey.
They have that right, they also have the responsibility to actually show up at the arenas.

No one doubts that there are great hockey fans in the south, fantastic fans. The problem is there is not enough of them in many cases. You think you can sustain a team with say 10 000 hard core fans and a whole bunch of people who dont care one way or another?

The question is whether this hypothetical number is going to increase, I think you could develop a market with this number initially but if after a decade this number is not higher ( or goes down) then what is the alternative ? Replace local support with rs dollars from markets where people actually care about the game?

The way some people act, you could run any new market into the ground with the worst orginizational skills and on ice product and if any one even questioned the viability of the market they must be have market vultures secretly hoping for the failure of new market teams. That as soon as a team is established, that team deserves to be there forever even if it is solely at the largess of big market money.

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11-14-2012, 09:25 AM
  #95
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They have that right, they also have the responsibility to actually show up at the arenas.

No one doubts that there are great hockey fans in the south, fantastic fans. The problem is there is not enough of them in many cases. You think you can sustain a team with say 10 000 hard core fans and a whole bunch of people who dont care one way or another?

The question is whether this hypothetical number is going to increase, I think you could develop a market with this number initially but if after a decade this number is not higher ( or goes down) then what is the alternative ? Replace local support with rs dollars from markets where people actually care about the game?

The way some people act, you could run any new market into the ground with the worst orginizational skills and on ice product and if any one even questioned the viability of the market they must be have market vultures secretly hoping for the failure of new market teams. That as soon as a team is established, that team deserves to be there forever even if it is solely at the largess of big market money.
I supported both NHL teams. I bought season tickets for the Thrashers even though i had a media pass for the first 4 seasons. I can count on one hand the number of Flames games I missed once I started going. Someone told me in another thread that I was a "good fan". I don't feel like a good fan. I feel like a chump.

I don't believe the league will ever come back to Atlanta. They allowed ASG to pretty much kill their brand here. If by some miracle it does happen, they will get along without me. I'm done investing my time, money, and emotion in a sport that cares so little for the people who love it as much as I do.

It's not enough that we've lost our team through no fault of own for the 2nd time. Now there are some who would deprive me of the right to go to Nashville and support an organization that seems to be doing it right in a non-traditional market. Ya'll can kiss my dyin' ass.

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11-14-2012, 09:34 AM
  #96
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You're going to see a lot more of this as this lockout drags on and on. Who wants to support a league that can't even get a CBA signed on time?
repeatedly.

we fans tend to have a rose colored glasses view of pro hockey. Reminds me of the Peanuts strip when Linus is shocked to find his teacher gets paid money. after all, she must love her job so much she'd do it for free, right? How many of us had this attitude about hockey until recently? These guys would do this for free....they're only getting paid due to the potential risk and because otherwise they'd have to take on a second job.


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11-14-2012, 10:23 AM
  #97
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At first it was anger for me too, but then I started realizing I didn't care. I'm actually hoping it comes back when the season starts, I love loving hockey. I don't want my passion to go away, but it's surprisingly starting to fade. Fans are just being treated like crap. Traditional hockey markets find themselves without a team, lockouts happen every 7 years, ticket prices keep going up, all they ever talk about publicly is how they're not making enough money... throw us a bone from time to time, because instead of being angry we're starting to feel like walking away. You could tell me hockey starts tomorrow right now and I wouldn't even be excited, it's crazy. It would literally feel wrong to watch a hockey game at this point. I don't feel like supporting either side... and I flat out just don't feel like watching hockey. It will probably change come playoffs time, especially if the habs make it... well... hopefully it will.

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11-14-2012, 10:29 AM
  #98
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Yeah, there's simply no way I'm watching NHL hockey at least in the first year after this lockout. I guess you can argue that I'll come back around eventually, but I don't know.

For me, it's this: I hate these players. I can't root for them. They're making far more than the market indicates they should, they're crying about it, they don't understand math, they pose for the media every ten seconds, they make so much money it's almost unconscionable while our country spins deeper and deeper into inequality, they've never worked a real job a day in their lives, got made for life at age 18, don't have the mental attention or focus to understand the actual negotiations going on and yet still want to sit there misinformedly preaching to us about it. They're shallow, stupid, petulant and antagonistic. They're not even fighting for the best deal anymore, everybody knows that deal came and went on November 2, they're fighting for some vague imagined honor thing as though anything about this fight was honorable. They're still fighting because $500M means so little to them that it's more worth it to win the pissing match. I hate them and I have no interest in watching a single one of their whiny ***** skate around while the dumb masses shower them with more money than any of the rest of us would see in a thousand lifetimes. It makes me sick. I have no interest in their ********.
This, as well. It's really sad and frustrating. I just heard a player on TV talking about how the negociations actually happen. Even at this time they're negociating in luxurious environments over a couple million bucks while the rest of us had to go hunting for deals in grocery stores so we could save up a bit of money and give it to them. It's just sickening to watch, really. The more I think about it, the more sick I actually feel. It's even a bit depressing.

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11-14-2012, 10:29 AM
  #99
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Yeah, there's simply no way I'm watching NHL hockey at least in the first year after this lockout. I guess you can argue that I'll come back around eventually, but I don't know.

For me, it's this: I hate these players. I can't root for them. They're making far more than the market indicates they should, they're crying about it, they don't understand math, they pose for the media every ten seconds, they make so much money it's almost unconscionable while our country spins deeper and deeper into inequality, they've never worked a real job a day in their lives, got made for life at age 18, don't have the mental attention or focus to understand the actual negotiations going on and yet still want to sit there misinformedly preaching to us about it. They're shallow, stupid, petulant and antagonistic. They're not even fighting for the best deal anymore, everybody knows that deal came and went on November 2, they're fighting for some vague imagined honor thing as though anything about this fight was honorable. They're still fighting because $500M means so little to them that it's more worth it to win the pissing match. I hate them and I have no interest in watching a single one of their whiny ***** skate around while the dumb masses shower them with more money than any of the rest of us would see in a thousand lifetimes. It makes me sick. I have no interest in their ********.
I feel the same way. I can't see myself rooting anymore for some of these idiotic players.

They're nothing but a bunch of clueless dolts who never got out of high school.

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11-14-2012, 10:41 AM
  #100
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I supported both NHL teams. I bought season tickets for the Thrashers even though i had a media pass for the first 4 seasons. I can count on one hand the number of Flames games I missed once I started going. Someone told me in another thread that I was a "good fan". I don't feel like a good fan. I feel like a chump.

I don't believe the league will ever come back to Atlanta. They allowed ASG to pretty much kill their brand here. If by some miracle it does happen, they will get along without me. I'm done investing my time, money, and emotion in a sport that cares so little for the people who love it as much as I do.

It's not enough that we've lost our team through no fault of own for the 2nd time. Now there are some who would deprive me of the right to go to Nashville and support an organization that seems to be doing it right in a non-traditional market. Ya'll can kiss my dyin' ass.

If they are doing it right, why do they need RS dollars ? And as I said, I have no doubt that there are GREAT FANS in every market, the question is their number. If it gets below a certain point, the team is no longer sustainable in that market. That's not a knock on the passion you have for the game, its a simple question of economics.

I hope that Nashville makes a go of it, I really do. I would hope that all of the new markets could but the evidence so far says that its not likely to happen. I think if efforts can be made to stabilize the team then these efforts should be made, but if a teams existence is going to be forever dependent on RS from have markets, as much as it sucks that's a market that the nhl would benefit from leaving.

I still think the question is how long should we give the teams ? I also think that saying " they have had enough time already" is as irresponsible as saying " they need RS for another 30 or forty years". If RS dollars were tied to metrics of improving the stability of the team in their markets, this is money well spent. If it is simply a way for teams to spend low and become the royals of the nhl, then that's not as good.

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