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2012 Subway Series II

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:59 AM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Based on...? Grigorenko got a combined 20 minutes of ice time between both games he played and still managed to be one of the best players on the ice for one of them. Also, Tarsenko and Kuznetsov are older, so obviously they're going to be more polished.
We're comparing Tarasenko and Kuznetsov at the same age as Grigorenko and Yakupov are now. T&K did accomplish more at the time (KHL producers) than Grigs and Yakupov did at this point. Kuznetsov had a much bigger contribution in 2011 WJC than Yakupov did last year and was a man among boys at same respective age. Yakupov is a very different player, and in his role it's harder to establish as a clear-cut leader like Kuznetsov was.

That's not to say that Grigs and Yak aren't leaders. I think they'll still show their colors in WJC. (IF the Lockout continues, who knows what will happen with that)

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11-13-2012, 05:44 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by sayitaintsocomrade View Post
pleased to see esp giving the raspberries to the usual russian whiners and alibi-ers. Truth: the comrades lost last evening to a tired LEAGUE all-star team despite having the bulk of their WJCH roster there; they lost fair and square - viktor dombrowski isn't on the ice, you can't just get the calls because you're from the motherland - and it's tiresome to hear people downgrade any canadian victory or come up with excuses for a hockey nation that always finds a way to bottom itself when it comes to new standards of boorishness, churlishness, and unsporting behaviour. I like Espo's style.
Spott has to be happy with that game.
This WJC team is getting harder to pick.
I had pencilled Danault and Hudon in prior, but after last night, i see where the OHL has a few guys with wheels that play a more physical gritty game.
The Russian style of play is very surprising and disappointing to say the least.

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11-13-2012, 05:47 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
We're comparing Tarasenko and Kuznetsov at the same age as Grigorenko and Yakupov are now. T&K did accomplish more at the time (KHL producers) than Grigs and Yakupov did at this point. Kuznetsov had a much bigger contribution in 2011 WJC than Yakupov did last year and was a man among boys at same respective age. Yakupov is a very different player, and in his role it's harder to establish as a clear-cut leader like Kuznetsov was.

That's not to say that Grigs and Yak aren't leaders. I think they'll still show their colors in WJC. (IF the Lockout continues, who knows what will happen with that)
Ah yeah. Kuznetsov definitely stood out as a leader of Russia's junior team then in a way nobody currently does, I can agree with that. I have a feeling Yak and Grigs will show up big time at the WJCs this year (assuming they both play, pending lockout). I'm sure Grigorenko feels like he has quite a bit left to prove, and Yakupov seems to be doing so well in the KHL that it's hard to imagine him not being able to produce in a big way against juniors.

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11-13-2012, 06:26 AM
  #229
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I think home ice officiating does more bad than good to canadians. I mean in Ufa they won't get it. And it will be a big ice, hostile audience and a lot of other things against them. It'd be better to have some of those things against on a home ice. But yeah, it's hard to get.

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11-13-2012, 08:17 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
IIHF refs are also pro-Canada (although not as ridiculously pro-Canada as the Canadian refs). Russia won't get anything from the refs in Ufa.

As for this game, the reffing was horribly biased for Canada as was expected.
I wouldn't say horribly biased, horribly biased was game 1 in Quebec (the only thing that kept Russia from scoring in double digits). Last night was a typical home refereed game, nothing crazy a few calls going Canada way, a few non-calls on Canadian players. The main reason for the loss is apathy and flatness of the Russian team. They looked disinterested, didn't fight through the adversity, and were failed by the coach, with the offensive lines and defensive pairings. With all that, they only loose by 1 goal (to yes a tired Ontario team). On Canada nobody impressed but Sheifle, the rest is grey mass of skaters/checkers, who try to to do same thing over and over.

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11-13-2012, 08:20 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
I think home ice officiating does more bad than good to canadians. I mean in Ufa they won't get it. And it will be a big ice, hostile audience and a lot of other things against them. It'd be better to have some of those things against on a home ice. But yeah, it's hard to get.
well that's the point of SSS for Russia. Send the team through the worst, and when it's fair and square it feels easier.

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11-13-2012, 08:45 AM
  #232
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Scheifele was definitely the most impressive member of Team OHL for me. Best player, most NHL-ready on that ice surface, both sides. I would also say that Wilson was very noticeable... but he's a risky proposition. In a North American venue, maybe it's a little different, but I'm not sure that bringing him to an IIHF event on big ice would work out. It might or it might not. Kind of have to look at how the rest of the team shakes out, the team will need scoring too, and can't have too many non-scorers, even if they can bring the physical play like Wilson.

Leivo was solid again too. Guys like Strome and Puempel continue to underwhelm, as did Rychel, Domi, Griffith... I didn't think there was a lot of offensive creativity that came to the forefront there. Even while crediting the job the Russian D are doing, some of these guys who are big producers in the OHL really didn't get much going.

I liked Basso, had never really paid that much attention to him before. Hamilton was of course Hamilton and will be a mainstay for Team Canada. Corrado was good and the others like Pelech and Percy were solid. Harrington always impresses me. I think of Harrington and Hamilton as the two locks on defense from the OHL out of all the players who suited up for the OHL in this miniseries.

There are really only those two D and Scheifele who I think of now as Team Canada guys for sure. Strome is a very likely 4th but still doesn't really impress me. He was better this game than last, however.

I could see Binnington as the backup. But there will be enough of a battle for that spot that it could go to most any of the contenders, depending on who does well in camp or seems to fit character-wise and all that. I doubt there is going to be anything to carry away from these games that really matters in terms of picking the goalies. The OHL games were nowhere near as interesting as the Q games IMHO. Russians were flat, and few players either way stepped up.

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11-13-2012, 09:25 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Pheramone View Post
QMJHL top lin in second game will be the best line put together in all these games, including whatever Russia put together.. Other than that line the q didnt have much at all. Agreed OHL didnt look great but they very well should have won both games and id call you ignorant if you think otherwise.
also GTFO out with reffing bologna, you cant not call delay of game shots over boards and blatant trips on the puck carrier. Russia was out gunned out hustled and out performed
Well we did'n look the same games.... the Danault-Hudon-Beauvillier was very good against Russia. Hudon and Danault will make the WJC for sure after watching the OHL play yesterday...

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Old
11-13-2012, 09:43 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Meh, he looks the same as he always does.

Big, fast, and strong but tunnel vision with the puck.
He has zero willingness to share the puck with his teammates and wants to run the same play every time.
If he's stopped, he seems to like to find the worst spot on the ice to shoot from and shoots just to shoot rather than thinking about making a play.
You mean Nathan MacKinnon?

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11-13-2012, 09:58 AM
  #235
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Scheifele and Hamilton are NHLers still playing against kids and really looked the part, easily the best players on the ice on either side. Really disappointed by the lack of offense, just nothing clicking, negative chemistry on every line it felt like. The Russians only scored three goals in two games and Binnington could have kept it lower than that, Russia barely had scoring chances. Only three goals for the OHL but at least they were getting a couple more chances. An end to the NHL lockout really makes it an unimpressive Canadian squad this year, no RNH, Scheifele, Hamilton, Huberdeu and Murray and it's a really weak team compared to recent years I believe. Defense would still be solid but not a lot of fire power up front. Subban is the one bright light this year compared to recent squads.

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11-13-2012, 10:08 AM
  #236
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OHL was clearly the better team and despite what others might say the reffing had zero impact on the outcome and style of play. Good answer by the O.

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Old
11-13-2012, 10:52 AM
  #237
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Just some horrible trapping hockey by Russia. Guess they are getting ready for playing on the big ice. What a shame

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:18 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Just some horrible trapping hockey by Russia. Guess they are getting ready for playing on the big ice. What a shame
The trap, as a strategy, is a huge improvement over what we saw in last year's WJC and the August series. The Russians were allowing other teams to carry the puck in across the blue line unmolested, and then set up a deep zone forecheck at will. It was killing them, because they couldn't clear their zone, and the puck was pinballing around the net. Despite the fact that the Russians have played uninspired and disconnected hockey throughout this series, their neutral zone trapping has enabled them to limit "NHL'ers" like Strome, Scheiffele and Hamilton to a total of 3 goals in six full periods of hockey. That's an average of 1.5 goals per game. We'll take that, especially in comparison to last January in the WJC, when Canada scored 4 goals in 5 minutes of the third period because the Russians weren't prepared to handle an all-out forecheck. The trap is working, and I believe the Russians will stick with it.

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11-13-2012, 11:41 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
The trap, as a strategy, is a huge improvement over what we saw in last year's WJC and the August series. The Russians were allowing other teams to carry the puck in across the blue line unmolested, and then set up a deep zone forecheck at will. It was killing them, because they couldn't clear their zone, and the puck was pinballing around the net. Despite the fact that the Russians have played uninspired and disconnected hockey throughout this series, their neutral zone trapping has enabled them to limit "NHL'ers" like Strome, Scheiffele and Hamilton to a total of 3 goals in six full periods of hockey. That's an average of 1.5 goals per game. We'll take that, especially in comparison to last January in the WJC, when Canada scored 4 goals in 5 minutes of the third period because the Russians weren't prepared to handle an all-out forecheck. The trap is working, and I believe the Russians will stick with it.

The trap is fantastic certain situations....but for a team like Russia (talent), it's stupid to plan the entire game around it.

At some point Varnakov should let this team's offensive talent do its thing. Right now it seems like every scoring chance is generated from an individual effort. There's absolutely no offensive cohesion and the PP is a joke.
Its no wonder why a guy like Yakupov looks frustrated.

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11-13-2012, 12:00 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Well, they didnt call the boarding penalty on Wilson for one. There were others. The refs were clearly biased and Im a Canadian.

Ontario didnt score on the pp, but it also took twelve minutes off the clock where Russia could have scored. Some of the calls that went against Russia were completely ignored when the roles were reversed.

Reminds me of Euro reffing in international tournaments when Canada is the foreign team. The only thing more oft putting than that is reading through the posts here with people ignoring/denying it.
If we're thinking of the same hit, there is no chance that Wilson hit was boarding.

Russia took lazy penalties IMO...

...I think excusing their effort, is worse than complaining about the refs (but not by much).
Quote:
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you forgot the most important thing in hockey: grit. dude got zero grit.
You can tell a player has no grit from one game? Laughable, especially because in this game Corrado took the body multiple times.

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11-13-2012, 01:23 PM
  #241
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Didn't see the game. How did Harrington play?

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11-13-2012, 01:39 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
The trap is fantastic certain situations....but for a team like Russia (talent), it's stupid to plan the entire game around it.

At some point Varnakov should let this team's offensive talent do its thing. Right now it seems like every scoring chance is generated from an individual effort. There's absolutely no offensive cohesion and the PP is a joke.
Its no wonder why a guy like Yakupov looks frustrated.
Would you rather see Russian goalies facing 55-60 shots on goal a game, like they did in the 2012 WJC against the Czechs, the Swedes and the Canadians? Remember, most of those shots were from point-blank range. The trap shouldn't be so necessary in Ufa, but on small rinks like you have in Canada, it helps to nullify the "kitchen sink" style forecheck that the Russian defense did such a poor job of defending. You may think its "stupid," but almost every NHL team used it in the 1990's, and the League had to basically legislate it out of existence. It works on small rinks, where most offense is generated from the forecheck.

I don't know why Varnakov has been unable to forge a connection between any of his offensive stars on the ice, but this is the most disconnected, disjointed and selfish group of players that I have ever seen wearing the Russian crest. It all starts with Yakupov, who refuses to pass the puck, and who continues to make unforgivable turnovers brought on by selfishness, all right under Varnakov's nose. If this series is any indication, Varnakov will be another "one and done" coach who fails to harness the assets he has. As individuals, we know that a number of these guys are really good, but they have generated next to nothing over four games so far. The Canadians deserve credit for playing tough defense, but these guys have just failed to do anything to overcome it.

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11-13-2012, 02:03 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
You mean Nathan MacKinnon?
I'm guessing you haven't watched MacKinnon much if you think he doesn't share the puck. He does.

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11-13-2012, 02:46 PM
  #244
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I'm guessing you haven't watched MacKinnon much if you think he doesn't share the puck. He does.
Actually, the only two times that I've seen him were last week in this series. All I knew about him was what I read on posts on this board. He seems like a really good kid, but he impressed me as a bit of a hot dog who doesn't always realize that he has teammates on the ice with him. Sort of like Yakupov. I noticed that he did a lot of end-to-end rushes in which he dances on his skates and whips his stick back and forth with lightning speed on the stickhandle. It's genuinely hard to skate and stickhandle like that and control the puck, which is why it was relatively easy for the Russians to stand up on him and force him outside along the boards, where he was out of the play. Nothing serious, but a little Yakupov-style showboating.

Where MacKinnon was able to hurt the Russians was in front of the net. He obviously reached physical maturation at a very young age, and he is very strong on the puck for a 17-year old. He got a goal in Game 2 by being strong on his stick and using really good hands. In my opinion, he's not close to Huberdeau yet, but he's better than anyone on Team Ontario, and will no doubt make the trek to Ufa.

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11-13-2012, 04:05 PM
  #245
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Holy ****, who was that pass from?
That was Shalunov. Any video of that Yakupov's goal? very eager to watch it.

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:13 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Actually, the only two times that I've seen him were last week in this series. All I knew about him was what I read on posts on this board. He seems like a really good kid, but he impressed me as a bit of a hot dog who doesn't always realize that he has teammates on the ice with him. Sort of like Yakupov. I noticed that he did a lot of end-to-end rushes in which he dances on his skates and whips his stick back and forth with lightning speed on the stickhandle. It's genuinely hard to skate and stickhandle like that and control the puck, which is why it was relatively easy for the Russians to stand up on him and force him outside along the boards, where he was out of the play. Nothing serious, but a little Yakupov-style showboating.

Where MacKinnon was able to hurt the Russians was in front of the net. He obviously reached physical maturation at a very young age, and he is very strong on the puck for a 17-year old. He got a goal in Game 2 by being strong on his stick and using really good hands. In my opinion, he's not close to Huberdeau yet, but he's better than anyone on Team Ontario, and will no doubt make the trek to Ufa.
He's a better playmaker than he generally gets credit for, but not in the classic sense of a playmaking centre. He comes off the sideboards or out of the corner a lot and either shoots or passes off. Example, the nice goalmouth feed to Huberdeau for his goal in Game 2. I hope you're right about Ufa. He'll definitely be there if the lockout ends, but should be there regardless. Four points in Game 2 against a very good Russian team says a lot.

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11-13-2012, 06:23 PM
  #247
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Didn't see the game. How did Harrington play?
I think he was par for the course Harrington - which is to say his game isn't flashy, but he is totally reliable and an ideal partner for basically anybody he plays with. I'm a fan, but he never disappoints (whereas I'm also a fan of a couple others who have disappointed). I can't imagine any scenario in which Harrington isn't on Team Canada. He's the perfect complement to basically anybody, and will always make his partner look better. Subtly, but effectively.

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11-13-2012, 06:46 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
He's a better playmaker than he generally gets credit for, but not in the classic sense of a playmaking centre. He comes off the sideboards or out of the corner a lot and either shoots or passes off. Example, the nice goalmouth feed to Huberdeau for his goal in Game 2. I hope you're right about Ufa. He'll definitely be there if the lockout ends, but should be there regardless. Four points in Game 2 against a very good Russian team says a lot.
As I mentioned, I haven't seen him enough to really assess his limits. He has great skills and he's so strong on his stick that he is going to pile up a lot of points. I hope (for our sake) that they make a mistake and don't take him, but I'm not holding my breath. Assuming that he is there, someone is going to have to mark him deep in the offensive zone.

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11-13-2012, 07:12 PM
  #249
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Can someone give me a quick summary as to how Scheifele has looked thus far?

Would I be correct in assuming he and Strome were Canada's best forwards?

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11-13-2012, 07:18 PM
  #250
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I think he was par for the course Harrington - which is to say his game isn't flashy, but he is totally reliable and an ideal partner for basically anybody he plays with. I'm a fan, but he never disappoints (whereas I'm also a fan of a couple others who have disappointed). I can't imagine any scenario in which Harrington isn't on Team Canada. He's the perfect complement to basically anybody, and will always make his partner look better. Subtly, but effectively.
100% agreed.

He's so reliable, steady and a calm influence on the back-end...he was on the shutdown pair last year, and I see no reason as to why he won't make the team this year.

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