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Hockey At 9:35AM? Western Conference Finals Rematch Marlies @ Barons 11/13 9:35AM MDT

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:55 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Dabomb View Post
So Eberle has now moved to second in AHL scoring leaders, just behind Schultz. RNH is now in the top 10 in scoring too.
Yeah, Jordan Eperle is going to crush that league. Crush it! Eperle.

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11-13-2012, 04:11 PM
  #227
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The Big 4 were pretty bad defensively early on.(Ok maybe Roy wasn't that good but still) They were on for 3 of the first period even strength goals against.
The big 4 were on the ice for 2 goals against but also scored 4 goals themselves (3 PP, 1 ES). I'll take that ratio every time. It's the rest of the team, particularly defensively, in goal and the PK, that are to blame for this loss.

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11-13-2012, 05:02 PM
  #228
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Yeah, Jordan Eperle is going to crush that league. Crush it! Eperle.
cringe

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11-13-2012, 05:05 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Because people call him Tyler Sequin all the time. A sequin are those flashy little plastic gems that used to be all over dresses in the 80's. Maybe you's just a little young to catch the joke.
thanks, I can now see why that is funny lol
I was a toddler back in the 80s but seen my share of 80s movies, funny stuff..

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11-13-2012, 05:07 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
Yeah, Jordan Eperle is going to crush that league. Crush it! Eperle.
I remember last season Eberle also started slow, eventually slowly picking up seconds assists on the PP, in time scoring at over PPG pace in stretches..
Same thing is happening this season, just a little sooner.
Hopefully this is the kickstart he needs to be a top scorer in the NHL if and when the league and players get their act together.

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11-13-2012, 05:29 PM
  #231
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Abysmal 5 on 5 play, one line does all the scoring, atrocious defense and weak goaltending.

Yup, these are the Oilers.

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11-13-2012, 05:48 PM
  #232
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Trying to look on the bright side; if "the big 4" were playing in Edmonton this year, I imagine we'd see much of the same if not worse. So, this time in OKC under Todd Nelson is, in my view, a great opportunity to learn how to play a solid 60 minute game. They've got to completely rid themselves of the laziness demons that would see them take for granted any portion of the game.

Given that it's the AHL, when they're putting in 60 minute efforts each game, the team should be relatively unbeatable. Save for maybe the Roy factor.
It's great there is an opportunity for the young kids to mature and learn about playing a full 60. However I think this game outlines the same problems that dogged the big club last year and prevents this OKC team from being relatively unbeatable, secondary scoring.

Granted I haven't had an opportunity to watch these games, and are going strictly by boxscores and what I read on here. This fanbase justifiably puts a lot of hope and pressure on the youngsters and for the most part they've met those expectations. But talk of an unbeatable AHL team, or the Oilers being contenders in a couple years is all premature until the team isn't completely relying on the same 3-4 players to win every game. Given the dearth of scoring prospects there are in the system other than Yakupov, we better hope Gagner, and Hemsky can provide some of that or else we'll be watching the kids average PPG while the team is still losing.

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11-13-2012, 08:31 PM
  #233
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One thing we can take out of this short AHL season so far - when(if) the NHL season starts, the OKC Barons are in major trouble. They might be lucky to win another game when the pros get air-lifted out.

Not that the Oilers are much better off. The supporting cast isn't as inexperienced as the support staff OKC is running with, but are just as ineffective and/or declining at the NHL level as Paarjavi and co are at the AHL level.

It's going to be a another trying year, with or without NHL hockey.

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11-13-2012, 08:32 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Did the Nordic line create any chances in the 3rd? How was Marincin in the 3rd?
Lander Paajarvi and Hartikainen did decent in the third, it seemed like they were getting under the other teams skin. EVERY whistle with them on the ice resulted in a scrum... Over and over again.

Marincin looked good too, during the shift they scored the tying goal on he took 4 or 5 shots from the point, almost everyone got through and caused some havoc. Looked good to me!

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11-13-2012, 08:39 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
One thing we can take out of this short AHL season so far - when(if) the NHL season starts, the OKC Barons are in major trouble. They might be lucky to win another game when the pros get air-lifted out.

Not that the Oilers are much better off. The supporting cast isn't as inexperienced as the support staff OKC is running with, but are just as ineffective and/or declining at the NHL level as Paarjavi and co are at the AHL level.

It's going to be a another trying year, with or without NHL hockey.
I disagree. They will likely play a better TEAM game without the pros to lean on, other guys will step up with more responsibilty just like what happened last season with the Barons. I actually think that the NHL coming back might possibly benefit them if anything.

The Oilers, on the other hand, not so sure. I see big struggles again this season with no veteran leadership to lean on and even more rookies in the lineup playing prominent roles but it doesn't matter since this season is toast anyway.

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11-13-2012, 08:43 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
One thing we can take out of this short AHL season so far - when(if) the NHL season starts, the OKC Barons are in major trouble. They might be lucky to win another game when the pros get air-lifted out.

Not that the Oilers are much better off. The supporting cast isn't as inexperienced as the support staff OKC is running with, but are just as ineffective and/or declining at the NHL level as Paarjavi and co are at the AHL level.

It's going to be a another trying year, with or without NHL hockey.
When the lockout ends, a lot of the other teams top players will also be in the NHL. That said our defense will still be ugly. Guys like Paajarvi, Lander, Pitlick, and Marincin should gain more confidence because they will get more offensive roles and minutes against lesser competition.

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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Lander Paajarvi and Hartikainen did decent in the third, it seemed like they were getting under the other teams skin. EVERY whistle with them on the ice resulted in a scrum... Over and over again.

Marincin looked good too, during the shift they scored the tying goal on he took 4 or 5 shots from the point, almost everyone got through and caused some havoc. Looked good to me!
Thanks for that, Paajarvi has even been getting into scrums when he used to always avoid them. IMO there's still an NHL player there even though he may never show top 6 offense. But if he can play gritty and work on being a shut down and PK guy IMO he'll be a very valuable player for us.

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11-13-2012, 08:48 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I disagree. They will likely play a better TEAM game without the pros to lean on, other guys will step up with more responsibilty just like what happened last season with the Barons. I actually think that the NHL coming back might possibly benefit them if anything.

The Oilers, on the other hand, not so sure. I see big struggles again this season with no veteran leadership to lean on and even more rookies in the lineup playing prominent roles but it doesn't matter since this season is toast anyway.
No matter how you slice it, we saw more consistent effort from the kids in the NHL, IMO they are not playing the same as if they were in the NHL and TBH to an extent it's human nature. At the next level they'll have other skill guys in Hemsky, Yakupov, and to a lesser extent Gagner to help out. Then you have guys like Smid, Petry, and N. Schultz behind them instead of Plante and Teubert.

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11-13-2012, 08:55 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
No matter how you slice it, we saw more consistent effort from the kids in the NHL, IMO they are not playing the same as if they were in the NHL and TBH to an extent it's human nature. At the next level they'll have other skill guys in Hemsky, Yakupov, and to a lesser extent Gagner to help out. Then you have guys like Smid, Petry, and N. Schultz behind them instead of Plante and Teubert.
They might show more effort in the NHL but the team will still be near the bottom due to the same issues that they have always had. Lack of veteran support, too young and inexperienced in all the key spots and incredibly soft.

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11-13-2012, 09:06 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
They might show more effort in the NHL but the team will still be near the bottom due to the same issues that they have always had. Lack of veteran support, too young and inexperienced in all the key spots and incredibly soft.
I've been saying somewhere between drafting 8th-12th for some time. IMO we will take a step forward and a sizable one at that, but as long as guys like Horcoff lead the veteran contingent we are going nowhere.

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11-13-2012, 09:09 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I disagree. They will likely play a better TEAM game without the pros to lean on, other guys will step up with more responsibilty just like what happened last season with the Barons. I actually think that the NHL coming back might possibly benefit them if anything.

The Oilers, on the other hand, not so sure. I see big struggles again this season with no veteran leadership to lean on and even more rookies in the lineup playing prominent roles but it doesn't matter since this season is toast anyway.
They have every opportunity to step up in secondary roles, every team they play right now is focused on stopping the NHLers, not them.

When the first line goes, the inexperienced players that are costing the team games now are going to be the only option, they won't automaticly be able to score or play better defense overnight, their deficiencies will only be magnified. Much like other years when the Oilers filled up their farm teams with developing and/or suspect prospects and no AHL vets, it'll result in a terrible hockey team that can't win games at that level.

Veteran leadership on the Oilers isn't a huge problem though... veterans that can play hockey and willingly fill secondary roles without sulking? That's an entirely different story.

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11-13-2012, 09:18 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
They have every opportunity to step up in secondary roles, every team they play right now is focused on stopping the NHLers, not them.

When the first line goes, the inexperienced players that are costing the team games now are going to be the only option, they won't automaticly be able to score or play better defense overnight, their deficiencies will only be magnified. Much like other years when the Oilers filled up their farm teams with developing and/or suspect prospects and no AHL vets, it'll result in a terrible hockey team that can't win games at that level.

Veteran leadership on the Oilers isn't a huge problem though... veterans that can play hockey and willingly fill secondary roles without sulking? That's an entirely different story.

Without the NHLers, the Barons will be pretty similar to last years team that made it to the WCF minus a few veterans so i don't see why they won't be at least ok if the NHL returns. Also, keep in mind that other teams will be weakened due to NHL departures.

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11-13-2012, 09:25 PM
  #242
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Tambellini helped the Barons out last year by bringing in an AHL ringer like Ryan Keller. The year before he signed Alexandre Giroux - a guy with 50 and 60 goal AHL seasons under his belt - and Bryan Helmer, a steady defenseman who is an impeccable leader. He didn't do anything to help out the farm team this year.

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11-13-2012, 09:27 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
They might show more effort in the NHL but the team will still be near the bottom due to the same issues that they have always had. Lack of veteran support, too young and inexperienced in all the key spots and incredibly soft.
One of the issues that doesn't get acknowledged enough is that the Worldclass kids should be holding their own which they are not. They just had another minus day as a line in the AHL. People look at their points and figure thats enough. But if two number one picks and a 72pt NHL player can't outscore at EV on the AHL level thats a huge problem to have.
Its not just about veteran support. Its about the supposed best players in the world acting like it all over the ice and properly learning their roles.

Time after time on the weekend set I noted our juggernaut line out on the ice being incapable of even controlling the puck or getting it out of their own end. They spent complete shifts without the puck. Again a huge problem.

My concern being these young star players don't understand, don't comprehend what to do with a lock or trap or NZ pressure whether it occurs at the AHL, or NHL level.

They better damn well figure it out quick. Or they won't develop as much as we expect.
This allstar line should be dominating 5 on 5 everytime they touch the puck. They rarely even control the puck unless its a man advantage. You can't live on that bread alone and you won't get far as a player if you do.

Great players are great 5 on 5. That hasn't been happening.

Additionally if separated the players are establishing absolutely nothing with other linemates. They pretty much required being put together and now the results of that are underwhelming. Our allstar line quickly opened the game by getting scored against not once, but twice, both EV goals. Thats not providing leadership, thats paving the way for losses and against vastly inferior players. They got owned twice by a line consisting of Will Acton, Nick Dechampes, and Paul Ranger. Household names for sure...


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11-13-2012, 09:35 PM
  #244
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3 of the 4 young stars are + for the season to date, so I'm not sure I see your point

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11-13-2012, 09:41 PM
  #245
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One of the issues that doesn't get acknowledged enough is that the Worldclass kids should be holding their own which they are not. They just had another minus day as a line in the AHL. People look at their points and figure thats enough. But if two number one picks and a 72pt NHL player can't outscore at EV on the AHL level thats a huge problem to have.
Its not just about veteran support. Its about the supposed best players in the world acting like it all over the ice and properly learning their roles.

Time after time on the weekend set I noted our juggernaut line out on the ice being incapable of even controlling the puck or getting it out of their own end. They spent complete shifts without the puck. Again a huge problem.

My concern being these young star players don't understand, don't comprehend what to do with a lock or trap or NZ pressure whether it occurs at the AHL, or NHL level.

They better damn well figure it out quick. Or they won't develop as much as we expect.
This allstar line should be dominating 5 on 5 everytime they touch the puck. They rarely even control the puck unless its a man advantage. You can't live on that bread alone and you won't get far as a player if you do.

Great players are great 5 on 5. That hasn't been happening.

Additionally if separated the players are establishing absolutely nothing with other linemates. They pretty much required being put together and now the results of that are underwhelming. Our allstar line quickly opened the game by getting scored against not once, but twice, both EV goals. Thats not providing leadership, thats paving the way for losses and against vastly inferior players.
That goes back to what i was saying about inexperience. I also don't like playing them all on one line. I prefer that they have an experienced player to not only provide defensive support but can also get dirty and dig out pucks along the boards. Hartikainen might not be great defensively or terribly experienced but he's a good fit with RNH and Eberle, that line was in sync when put together.
The problem i see with the Oilers team is that they don't have a guy like that. Smyth would have been ideal 2-3 years ago but he is no longer capable. It would have been nice to add a player like Clowe or Morrow.

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11-13-2012, 09:46 PM
  #246
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3 of the 4 young stars are + for the season to date, so I'm not sure I see your point
What lofty expectations you seem to have for some of the worlds top picked players.

Around 100 AHL players have a better +/- then anybody on our topline. None of those players have two number one picks and a 72pt NHL player last year on that same line. no other line in the entire league even comes close to this rarified blue blood line. At least on paper.

These guys should be running something like +10numbers by now. They should be dominant.

These are the three of the highest ranked forwards in the league. All TOGETHER on one line. Lets be clear here too. Without Schultz these guys are likely minus players right now. Schultz has elevated their numbers appreciably.

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11-13-2012, 09:51 PM
  #247
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Around 100 AHL players have a better +/- then anybody on our topline. None of those players have two number one picks and a 72pt NHL player last year on that same line.

These guys should be running something like +10numbers by now. They should be dominant.

These are the three of the highest ranked forwards in the league. All TOGETHER on one line. Lets be clear here too. Without Schultz these guys are likely minus players right now. Schultz has elevated their numbers appreciably.
I'd say their plus minus is more due to the goaltending and terrible defense. If you should be pointing fingers at anyone it should be the GM or the Coach for their personnel selections and line combonations.

I don't know how many AHL games you've watched this year but I bought the AHL Live package and have seen every game this season but one. They're clearly on another level down there... RNH, Eberle and Schultz can make things look pretty easy.

Schultz is leading the whole league in scoring, Eberle is #2 and RNH is tied for fourth (and he was healthy scratched a game + missed most of another one due to dental surgery).

Hall is still a little rusty so don't expect much from him off the hop but he does already have 4 goals in 6 games.

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11-13-2012, 09:56 PM
  #248
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That goes back to what i was saying about inexperience. I also don't like playing them all on one line. I prefer that they have an experienced player to not only provide defensive support but can also get dirty and dig out pucks along the boards. Hartikainen might not be great defensively or terribly experienced but he's a good fit with RNH and Eberle, that line was in sync when put together.
The problem i see with the Oilers team is that they don't have a guy like that. Smyth would have been ideal 2-3 years ago but he is no longer capable. It would have been nice to add a player like Clowe or Morrow.
This is the 3rd proseason for two of these players. The inexperience card doesn't really play when these players should be at a level well beyond this league. Part of the problem is we're raising these kids not to care about GA. Hall cares, I know that. But none of these guys have really learned how to play ownzone properly. or how to keep the puck to prevent spending so much time in ownzone. Once this line loses the puck they tend to be in trouble. They shouldn't be at this point. Especially when babysat by Schultz, the best D playing in this league for my money.

When this line starts respecting the puck, and respecting puck control, and not throwing it away blindly they might reduce their GA and running around struggles. A talented line like this should recognize what a significant problem its being for them even at this level whenever they give up the puck.

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11-13-2012, 09:59 PM
  #249
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I'd say their plus minus is more due to the goaltending and terrible defense. If you should be pointing fingers at anyone it should be the GM or the Coach for their personnel selections and line combonations.

I don't know how many AHL games you've watched this year but I bought the AHL Live package and have seen every game this season but one. They're clearly on another level down there... RNH, Eberle and Schultz can make things look pretty easy.

Schultz is leading the whole league in scoring, Eberle is #2 and RNH is tied for fourth (and he was healthy scratched a game + missed most of another one due to dental surgery).

Hall is still a little rusty so don't expect much from him off the hop but he does already have 4 goals in 6 games.
I've been highly critical of Nelson.

My issue isn't with production, it is with GA and a lack of outscoring. This line should be capable of vastly outscoring the opposition. Its not how many you score, its the differential of GF/GA that matters to me.

I've seen complete games where Ebele and RNH couldn't seem to even control the puck. Where they turned it over as fast as they got it. Not nearly enough time has been spent with puck possession. This line has NEEDED extra strength to effect puck control.

Its embarrasing how easily, and how often this line allows GA. Its become a bad habit.

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11-13-2012, 10:03 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Tambellini helped the Barons out last year by bringing in an AHL ringer like Ryan Keller. The year before he signed Alexandre Giroux - a guy with 50 and 60 goal AHL seasons under his belt - and Bryan Helmer, a steady defenseman who is an impeccable leader. He didn't do anything to help out the farm team this year.
He brought back the goalie who was tops in the league last season. He didnt have much flexibility with the roster due to the lockout and the number of prospects that the Oilers had who were graduating from Junior + Schultz.

OKC would not have been a prime destination for any top AHL free agents this off season. Heck even Cornet who was an AHL allstar and a regular top line player is in the ECHL due to a lack of space. Signing more free agents would mean that both Hamilton and Pitlick would likelyt be in the ECHL right now as well.

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