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Hockey At 9:35AM? Western Conference Finals Rematch Marlies @ Barons 11/13 9:35AM MDT

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11-14-2012, 08:01 AM
  #276
Baronsfan
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
Eberle and RNH are putting up points but I haven't really been wow'd by them tbh.
This. They each will blow up for 3-4 points in a couple games, then seem to get held in check for the most part for a couple games. I don't know if it's the half hearted effort, adjusting to the different style of play in the AHL, or both most likely.

The games they are dominate the stat sheet are the games that the Barons get a lot of time on the man advantage. Majority of their points have been with the man advantage I would wager, so at even strength they haven't really been that special, as many are saying on here.

Off this topic, but it sure would be nice if someone other than the big 4 and Hartikainen/Paajarvi/Arcobello start producing. Byers, Hamilton, Pitlick, Vande Velde, Lander - they all need to join the party at some point. Pitlick hasn't played bad necessarily, but my gosh is he snake bitten. After his finish last season and in the post season I was really hoping and expecting the kid to start out hot out of the gates. I was honestly banking on him to put up in the 40 point range this season.

Vande Velde, Hamilton, Lander, Byers, etc. are good on the PK, and have spent the majority of the time in the bottom 6. Pitlick however doesn't kill penalties, has been in the top 6 for most of the first 13 games, been on the 2nd unit PP, so I find his numbers to be the most disappointing of them all to be honest.

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11-14-2012, 08:18 AM
  #277
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I've been away a while: is the consensus now that the Oilers kids are busts?


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Old
11-14-2012, 08:39 AM
  #278
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I've been away a while: is the consensus now that the Oilers kids are busts?

Just Eberle he needs to go down to the AHL for a bit to find his game early in the season...

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11-14-2012, 12:11 PM
  #279
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With the lockout, I haven't been on here in a while.

Does anyone know where I can find TOI stats for the Barons?

Or if someone can just tell me... how many minutes are Hall/Ebs/Nuge/Schultz getting compared to Pitlick/Hamilton/Martindale/VandeVelde?

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11-14-2012, 01:04 PM
  #280
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Don't know about the forwards, pretty sure I've read that Schultz and Marincin are playing 28-30 minutes per game.

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11-14-2012, 01:36 PM
  #281
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Don't know about the forwards, pretty sure I've read that Schultz and Marincin are playing 28-30 minutes per game.
That's great to hear. Thanks!

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11-14-2012, 01:45 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Baronsfan View Post
This. They each will blow up for 3-4 points in a couple games, then seem to get held in check for the most part for a couple games. I don't know if it's the half hearted effort, adjusting to the different style of play in the AHL, or both most likely.

The games they are dominate the stat sheet are the games that the Barons get a lot of time on the man advantage. Majority of their points have been with the man advantage I would wager, so at even strength they haven't really been that special, as many are saying on here.

Off this topic, but it sure would be nice if someone other than the big 4 and Hartikainen/Paajarvi/Arcobello start producing. Byers, Hamilton, Pitlick, Vande Velde, Lander - they all need to join the party at some point. Pitlick hasn't played bad necessarily, but my gosh is he snake bitten. After his finish last season and in the post season I was really hoping and expecting the kid to start out hot out of the gates. I was honestly banking on him to put up in the 40 point range this season.

Vande Velde, Hamilton, Lander, Byers, etc. are good on the PK, and have spent the majority of the time in the bottom 6. Pitlick however doesn't kill penalties, has been in the top 6 for most of the first 13 games, been on the 2nd unit PP, so I find his numbers to be the most disappointing of them all to be honest.
I respect your opininon on what you see with the Barons, but aren't we asking too much of these kids to expect them to dominate much more than they have in a league like the AHL. As you know the AHL is a much better league than it is usually given credit for. It is also a rather defensively oriented league. Lots of trapping, lots of collapsing around the net. And one would bet that with so much time to prepare for upcoming games that teams are specifically looking to control the kids when playing the Barons.

This is not to say that I don't think Eberle, Nuge and Hall could play better at ES, but I think the transition is a bigger adjustment than many of us might have thought. It is also pretty early in the year, especially given that they had no real training camp. Still they are generating a fair number of very good scoring chances even at ES and part of the reason Schultz has so much room to roam is that in the Baron's offensive zone teams are playing the kids very tight.

BTW, on a loaded Adirondack team Sean Couturier has 10 points in 10 gaes but is also a -3. This is a kid who is terrific defensively and who was for much of his draft year seen to be ahead of Nuge.

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11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #283
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BTW, on a loaded Adirondack team Sean Couturier has 10 points in 10 gaes but is also a -3. This is a kid who is terrific defensively and who was for much of his draft year seen to be ahead of Nuge.
As loaded as the OKC Barons? You'd be hard pressed to find a more "talented" line in the league...no?

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11-14-2012, 03:00 PM
  #284
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Any highlights from this game?

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11-14-2012, 03:09 PM
  #285
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I think that we need to remember that, except for maybe Hall, the kids did not have to face tough comp last year. In the AHL they are facing the toughest comp. This will be a good experience for them. They will be fine.

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11-14-2012, 03:37 PM
  #286
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I think that we need to remember that, except for maybe Hall, the kids did not have to face tough comp last year. In the AHL they are facing the toughest comp. This will be a good experience for them. They will be fine.
Good point. They're definitely the focal point for opposing teams and there's nobody to help

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:16 PM
  #287
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I think that we need to remember that, except for maybe Hall, the kids did not have to face tough comp last year. In the AHL they are facing the toughest comp. This will be a good experience for them. They will be fine.
I don't buy this. Renney sheltered them as much as possible at home but on the road the Oilers didn't have last change, so they must have faced other teams' top shutdown players.

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:23 PM
  #288
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The toughest competition in the AHL is still worse than the easiest competition on any team in the NHL not playing in Northern Alberta.

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11-14-2012, 04:26 PM
  #289
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The toughest competition in the AHL is still worse than the easiest competition on any team in the NHL not playing in Northern Alberta.
It's also very different, much more unpredictable.


Last edited by 40oz: 11-14-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: spellin
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11-14-2012, 04:47 PM
  #290
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The toughest competition in the AHL is still worse than the easiest competition on any team in the NHL not playing in Northern Alberta.
The notion they played against easy competition is pretty nonsensical. Besides seeing them consistently face top d-pairings like Suter and Weber "at home" no less, I find it hard to believe the other team's would ignore Hall RNH Eberle in favour of checking the Gagner or Horcoff line.

That's pretty ****ing stupid if you think about it for more than a second or two.

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11-14-2012, 04:56 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
I don't buy this. Renney sheltered them as much as possible at home but on the road the Oilers didn't have last change, so they must have faced other teams' top shutdown players.
Yeah and did they dominate on the road?

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Old
11-14-2012, 05:14 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus Schmidt View Post
Yeah and did they dominate on the road?
No, but you said:
Quote:
[...]the kids did not have to face tough comp last year. In the AHL they are facing the toughest comp. This will be a good experience for them.
They already had the experience of facing tough competition in the NHL. Going up against top AHLers shouldn't be a problem for them.

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Old
11-14-2012, 05:38 PM
  #293
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Well, the reality is that Kane and Toews were front center on that club and took a lot of players that people thought were really good, but have been ordinary elsewhere, along for a ride. Toews reminded me most of Joe Sakic, while only being 22 or 23. Kane reminded me of an ahole, but not on the ice.

Toews and Kane dominated in every respect, throughout the playoffs and at a very young age. Great players making everybody around them, and a whole team, look better. Lets be frank here. Nothing happens in Chicago that doesn't intimately involve Toews and Kane.

That said we all know the Oilers need to get better as a team. But who takes the reigns. Toews and Kane took the reigns and never stopped. Took it all the way to the house.
Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Brian Campbell are a big difference compared to Ladislav Smid, Jeff Petry & Corey Potter. By having quality defense to get the puck out of your own zone and provide you with more offensive opportunities & possession, it's like comparing apples & oranges.

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11-14-2012, 05:50 PM
  #294
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That's fine, but they've got to be able to score 5 on 5. The Oilers had an absolutely dynamite powerplay last year but were **** 5 on 5. Powerplays still are important, but they're not nearly as important as they used to be.

The final two months of the 11/12 season and the playoffs illustrated that fact. If you can't outplay your opponent 5 on 5 then you're going to lose, lose and lose some more.
couldn't agree more... but this has literally nothing to do with what i said... i said we all knew they would have trouble at evens and do well on the PP... i also said, but not in the message you quoted, that they likely won't be good at evens for at least a few more years

of course we need them to be better at 5v5, but the reality of the situation is that they likely won't be for a while yet

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11-14-2012, 05:54 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Free View Post
Any highlights from this game?
They can usually be found on the Oilers main site.
Sure looks to me like Denis should have stopped that last shot by Gardiner.

http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocen...id=DL|EDM|home

Looking at the boxscore I see that the Marlies earned a minor penalty and a ten minute misconduct for abuse of officials. Their coach was also thrown out of the game in the third period. Haven't seen any comment on that in this thread ... can anyone who watched the game tell us what brought that on?


Last edited by harpoon: 11-14-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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Old
11-14-2012, 05:55 PM
  #296
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Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Brian Campbell are a big difference compared to Ladislav Smid, Jeff Petry & Corey Potter. By having quality defense to get the puck out of your own zone and provide you with more offensive opportunities & possession, it's like comparing apples & oranges.
Well of course they're better D. But then again we're talking night and day difference. SC champs vs 30th place finishers.

You think Toews and Kane would be out of the playoffs a lot on a team like the Oilers? You think they wouldn't be accomplishing more on this club?

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11-14-2012, 07:06 PM
  #297
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Well of course they're better D. But then again we're talking night and day difference. SC champs vs 30th place finishers.

You think Toews and Kane would be out of the playoffs a lot on a team like the Oilers? You think they wouldn't be accomplishing more on this club?
What would the lineup look like with Kane and Toews instead of Eberle/RNH/Hall?

Smyth-Toews-Hemsky
Omark-Gagner-Kane
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Jones
Eager-Belanger-Lander

Smid-Gilbert
Sutton-Petry
Whitney-Peckham

Dubnyk
Khabibulin

Is that a playoff team to you? I don't think it is. A playoff team wouldn't have Khabibulin playing nearly half the minutes, an immobile Whitney, two 6D in Peckham/Sutton and the Swiss cheese that is the 4th line.

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11-14-2012, 07:29 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The notion they played against easy competition is pretty nonsensical. Besides seeing them consistently face top d-pairings like Suter and Weber "at home" no less, I find it hard to believe the other team's would ignore Hall RNH Eberle in favour of checking the Gagner or Horcoff line.

That's pretty ****ing stupid if you think about it for more than a second or two.
It's amazing how the advanced stats crowd can sell a narrative.

The Hall-RNH-Eberle line regularly lined up against top pairing defenseman. Sure they got a lot of o-zone starts (RNH couldn't win faceoffs) but they weren't nearly as sheltered as we've been lead to believe.

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11-14-2012, 07:30 PM
  #299
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Well of course they're better D. But then again we're talking night and day difference. SC champs vs 30th place finishers.

You think Toews and Kane would be out of the playoffs a lot on a team like the Oilers? You think they wouldn't be accomplishing more on this club?
Kane and Toews supporting cast on the cup winning Blackhawks is night and day to the 29th place Oilers. I can't believe this is even up for discussion.

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11-14-2012, 07:30 PM
  #300
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Well, the reality is that Kane and Toews were front center on that club and took a lot of players that people thought were really good, but have been ordinary elsewhere, along for a ride. Toews reminded me most of Joe Sakic, while only being 22 or 23. Kane reminded me of an ahole, but not on the ice.

Toews and Kane dominated in every respect, throughout the playoffs and at a very young age. Great players making everybody around them, and a whole team, look better. Lets be frank here. Nothing happens in Chicago that doesn't intimately involve Toews and Kane.

That said we all know the Oilers need to get better as a team. But who takes the reigns. Toews and Kane took the reigns and never stopped. Took it all the way to the house.
i just don't think you can compare the oilers to the hawks at all... the hawks team was vastly, vastly superior in pretty much every area when it comes to veteran support and defense... not even on the same planet as the current oilers... the team surrounding toews/kane was so incredibly different than the team surrounding hall/eberle/RNH that its essentially useless to compare them IMO

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