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Trade Rumor and Proposal Thread Part III

View Poll Results: Would you accept the Edmonton Oilers acquiring Luongo from the Vancouver Canucks?
Yes 103 35.64%
No 186 64.36%
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Old
11-13-2012, 08:24 PM
  #376
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The thing is, we have two very good 3rd line centers already in Horcoff and Belanger. #3C's aren't really what we need to be going after. Especially if the plan is to plug them into the #2 spot.
Not sure that I'd classify either as "really good 3rd line centers". Both have been anything but good of late IMO. Belanger is good on the PK and in the dot, but putrid offensively, Horcoff isn't really great at much of anything at this point.

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11-13-2012, 08:35 PM
  #377
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Not sure that I'd classify either as "really good 3rd line centers". Both have been anything but good of late IMO. Belanger is good on the PK and in the dot, but putrid offensively, Horcoff isn't really great at much of anything at this point.
If Belanger could have come close to his previous season he would be the ideal 3rd line C IMO.

55+ FO%, 35-40 pts, great on the PK.

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11-13-2012, 08:52 PM
  #378
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Not sure that I'd classify either as "really good 3rd line centers". Both have been anything but good of late IMO. Belanger is good on the PK and in the dot, but putrid offensively, Horcoff isn't really great at much of anything at this point.
3rd liners don't really need to provide much offense. They do need to be able to provide steady and consistent defensive play, something Belanger wasn't very good at last year, and actually looked overwhelmed and fustrated by the role of a defensive center on a bad team.

Not that it matters. Stauffer has been pumping the "dump Belanger" line for a while, and there were some rumors a while back he was a bad teammate in the room(something that was around before the oilers signed him as well) - so he probably won't be around much longer regardless. Which is too bad, because while I agree with you that neither Horcoff or Belanger are good 3rd line centers, I'd rather keep Belanger out of the two of them since he can actually win faceoffs consistently, while providing providing similar play to Horcoff at a much lower price point(aka, that of a medicore 3rd line center, or above average 4th line center).

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11-13-2012, 10:34 PM
  #379
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Maybe I'm wrong but I swear he played a bit of a shutdown role in the playoffs. Either way he is not the droid we are looking for.
I wouldn't guarantee I'm entirely right but based on my observations of him he is responsible but plays more of an offensively suited style. Quick hands, pass-first type of player. Clone of Gagner imo. Thing is we both agree kn him not being the player were chasing if we want to fill a void were missing. I'd love to see Hall attempt to fill that role personally as he is the prototypical physical type with great speed and a bit of an edge. I remember Peverley assisting defensively during their run but also being clutch up front....

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11-14-2012, 12:09 AM
  #380
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it depends on the prospects

lets say its plante and hamilton

Getz signs and we trade horcoff at the end of the season

we shed horcoffs salary and gags and take on Getz's salary.

the new cba may push players entry level salarys lower or cap the second contracts salary so RNH and NAIL wont get 6 mil until the third conract.

we trade horcoff for a D man and use a lower priced player for our 3rd line center.
It would take more than Plante and Hamilton; Horc is untradeable; I just don't see RNH and Yak not getting their money when their contracts are up; you play hardball with a player majority of the time he is traded.

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11-14-2012, 01:38 AM
  #381
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If Belanger could have come close to his previous season he would be the ideal 3rd line C IMO.

55+ FO%, 35-40 pts, great on the PK.
I like a little more physicality in my 3rd line centers, but those would be very solid contributions from him, TBH I'd be surprised if he ever hits 25-30 points for us.

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3rd liners don't really need to provide much offense. They do need to be able to provide steady and consistent defensive play, something Belanger wasn't very good at last year, and actually looked overwhelmed and fustrated by the role of a defensive center on a bad team.

Not that it matters. Stauffer has been pumping the "dump Belanger" line for a while, and there were some rumors a while back he was a bad teammate in the room(something that was around before the oilers signed him as well) - so he probably won't be around much longer regardless. Which is too bad, because while I agree with you that neither Horcoff or Belanger are good 3rd line centers, I'd rather keep Belanger out of the two of them since he can actually win faceoffs consistently, while providing providing similar play to Horcoff at a much lower price point(aka, that of a medicore 3rd line center, or above average 4th line center).
I pretty much agree with everything that you've said, I don't see him here for very long either, hopefully Horcoff follows him out the door at some point.

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11-14-2012, 03:35 AM
  #382
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When Marc Bergevin was announced as GM for Montreal, Stauffer talked about how good of friends Bergevin is with Belanger and hinted at a potential deal.

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11-14-2012, 08:19 AM
  #383
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I mentioned this in the other thread, what to you guys think of Brian Boyle? Didn't do much offensively last year, but scored 21 goals the year before, which is impressive for a 3rd liner.
240 hits/year, 51.8% FO last season.
Hall (PFW)-RNH(PLY)-Yakupov(SNP)
Hemsky(PLY)-Boyle(PFW)-Eberle(SNP)

If NHL09 has taught me anything, their attributes will be +3 with those combos
I wanted Boyle when he was in LA, but I highly doubt now the Rags move a guy making 1.7mil. I think it was a major miss not to get him at the draft in 09 for the 3rd it cost, especially because he was a big body center that we were trying to find.

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11-14-2012, 08:22 AM
  #384
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The thing is, we have two very good 3rd line centers already in Horcoff and Belanger. #3C's aren't really what we need to be going after. Especially if the plan is to plug them into the #2 spot.
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I wouldn't mind acquiring Boyle to play on the wing in the bottom six along with PK duty. I'm not sure if he's as effective on the wing as he is at C though. He's the kind of player we desperately need in the bottom 6. Competent on both offense and defense, plays physical, is an imposing presence, he steps up for his teammates, and gives a **** on every shift. He probably wouldn't look too bad in front of the net on the PP either.
I think Krut is onto something. Boston didn't need all the centers they acquired, but they've found a way to make them fit. The other thing is and I know Horc probably isn't going anywhere, but you bring Boyle in and at a later date move Belanger. Boyle brings an element that Horcoff and Belanger don't have and that's a physical edge.

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11-14-2012, 10:24 AM
  #385
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I think Krut is onto something. Boston didn't need all the centers they acquired, but they've found a way to make them fit. The other thing is and I know Horc probably isn't going anywhere, but you bring Boyle in and at a later date move Belanger. Boyle brings an element that Horcoff and Belanger don't have and that's a physical edge.
I wouldn't be so sure about Horcoff not going anywhere, there could easily be a clause im the new CBA, that allows for one time buy out that does not count against the cap, if that was the case, Horcoff would be gone. He has one of the worst 3 deals in the league. This clause isn't only possible, it's likely, as it is key in getting team's cap hits to fit under the new salary cap.

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11-14-2012, 10:50 AM
  #386
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I would like to see EDM pick up Collin Wilson from NSH, he would be the perfect 2C, he has size and he has skill. What do you guys think the cost would be?

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11-14-2012, 11:01 AM
  #387
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I wouldn't be so sure about Horcoff not going anywhere, there could easily be a clause im the new CBA, that allows for one time buy out that does not count against the cap, if that was the case, Horcoff would be gone. He has one of the worst 3 deals in the league. This clause isn't only possible, it's likely, as it is key in getting team's cap hits to fit under the new salary cap.
Horcoff just recently built a house next to Katz, hes not going anywhere. In fact I could almost guarantee that he gets another contract after this one, anyone who thinks that Horcoff is going anywhere is delusional. It truly is disturbing to think that it is how the organization is operated.

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11-14-2012, 11:07 AM
  #388
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Horcoff just recently built a house next to Katz, hes not going anywhere. In fact I could almost guarantee that he gets another contract after this one, anyone who thinks that Horcoff is going anywhere is delusional. It truly is disturbing to think that it is how the organization is operated.
If there is a buyout clause and we don't use it on Horcoff then Katz and co. should be constantly crapped on by the local media for being idiots. He is worth nowhere near what he's getting paid and we need to start getting better as a team, and it's harder to do that with Horcoff taking $5.5 million off your cap than it is with him down the road and having $5.5 million free for trades/FA signings.

First and foremost it's a business and Horcoff has been paid so much relative to his on ice play that if his panties are in a bunch because he gets bought out then that is his problem. Maybe he could spite Katz by hanging one of his jerseys that he hasn't returned to the team, in a window facing Katz' home

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11-14-2012, 11:19 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If there is a buyout clause and we don't use it on Horcoff then Katz and co. should be constantly crapped on by the local media for being idiots. He is worth nowhere near what he's getting paid and we need to start getting better as a team, and it's harder to do that with Horcoff taking $5.5 million off your cap than it is with him down the road and having $5.5 million free for trades/FA signings.

First and foremost it's a business and Horcoff has been paid so much relative to his on ice play that if his panties are in a bunch because he gets bought out then that is his problem. Maybe he could spite Katz by hanging one of his jerseys that he hasn't returned to the team, in a window facing Katz' home
Gregor has been against buying out horcoff from Katz point of view. Simply saying that 2/3 of 13mil is a lot of money for someone to pony up.

All going to depend if a. there is a buyout amnesty clause and if there is how much money is Katz going to have to fork over.

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11-14-2012, 11:32 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If there is a buyout clause and we don't use it on Horcoff then Katz and co. should be constantly crapped on by the local media for being idiots. He is worth nowhere near what he's getting paid and we need to start getting better as a team, and it's harder to do that with Horcoff taking $5.5 million off your cap than it is with him down the road and having $5.5 million free for trades/FA signings.

First and foremost it's a business and Horcoff has been paid so much relative to his on ice play that if his panties are in a bunch because he gets bought out then that is his problem. Maybe he could spite Katz by hanging one of his jerseys that he hasn't returned to the team, in a window facing Katz' home
lol do you still believe in Santa as well? if your naive enough to believe that everything is rainbows and butterflies then you need to take off the rose colored glasses.

if things were the way you think they are why do we have guys like Lowe and MacT at the top of the organization? there is a lot of corruption in the world and there's no Easter bunny, Especially in pro sports.

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11-14-2012, 11:38 AM
  #391
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Gregor has been against buying out horcoff from Katz point of view. Simply saying that 2/3 of 13mil is a lot of money for someone to pony up.

All going to depend if a. there is a buyout amnesty clause and if there is how much money is Katz going to have to fork over.
$8,580,000 would be 66% of $13 million. If we lose Khabby to retirement we could save some $ there. RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz are on their ELC's and probably won't be earning their rookie maxes so it's not like he is paying the full amount of $ that is seen as being counted against the cap. Buying out Horcoff enables us to make a play for better players and being able to get good players for picks/prospects. Having this team be a winner would increase the value of the club to both Edmonton and other potential destinations. I'm pretty sure that they'd buy him out TBH.

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lol do you still believe in Santa as well? if your naive enough to believe that everything is rainbows and butterflies then you need to take off the rose colored glasses.

if things were the way you think they are why do we have guys like Lowe and MacT at the top of the organization? there is a lot of corruption in the world and there's no Easter bunny, Especially in pro sports.
And MacT was sacked and even spent a year with the rival Canucks, so what do you have to say about that? You can spew whatever garbage you want, but the bottom line is that the Oilers are better off without Horcoff and his $5.5 million cap hit than they are with it. If Katz is serious about icing a winner, he will buy Horcoff out, if he's not then he is an idiot who would rather not ruffle Horcoff's feathers than piss off his whole hometown (the arena issue/threatening to move, etc.).


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11-14-2012, 11:47 AM
  #392
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If there is a buyout clause and we don't use it on Horcoff then Katz and co. should be constantly crapped on by the local media for being idiots. He is worth nowhere near what he's getting paid and we need to start getting better as a team, and it's harder to do that with Horcoff taking $5.5 million off your cap than it is with him down the road and having $5.5 million free for trades/FA signings.

First and foremost it's a business and Horcoff has been paid so much relative to his on ice play that if his panties are in a bunch because he gets bought out then that is his problem. Maybe he could spite Katz by hanging one of his jerseys that he hasn't returned to the team, in a window facing Katz' home
Whos the 3rd line center, whos gunna take important face offs? whos gunna play tough minutes. Horcs contract sucks but it doesnt prevent us from signing key peices and we need his services

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11-14-2012, 11:47 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
$8,580,000 would be 66% of $13 million. If we lose Khabby to retirement we could save some $ there. RNH, Yakupov, and Schultz are on their ELC's and probably won't be earning their rookie maxes so it's not like he is paying the full amount of $ that is seen as being counted against the cap. Buying out Horcoff enables us to make a play for better players and being able to get good players for picks/prospects. Having this team be a winner would increase the value of the club to both Edmonton and other potential destinations. I'm pretty sure that they'd buy him out TBH.



And MacT was sacked and even spent a year with the rival Canucks, so what do you have to say about that? You can spew whatever garbage you want, but the bottom line is that the Oilers are better off without Horcoff and his $5.5 million cap hit than they are with it. If Katz is serious about icing a winner, he will buy Horcoff out, if he's not then he is an idiot who would rather not ruffle Horcoff's feathers than piss off his whole hometown (the arena issue/threatening to move, etc.).
RNH and those guys being on whatever is irrelevant. The fact is it's over 8mil for a player to do nothing.

In case you've missed Katz is penny pinching on an arena deal right now, not going to look good if he continues his old ways and throws money at nothing.

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11-14-2012, 11:51 AM
  #394
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It's really simple, Katz and company need to sit down figure out what the actually worth Horcoff is and whether or not it's worth it to buy him out and then replace him with a 2-3mil player. Odds are at best they figure they'd break even and at that point I doubt they buy him out.

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11-14-2012, 11:55 AM
  #395
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And MacT was sacked and even spent a year with the rival Canucks, so what do you have to say about that? You can spew whatever garbage you want, but the bottom line is that the Oilers are better off without Horcoff and his $5.5 million cap hit than they are with it. If Katz is serious about icing a winner, he will buy Horcoff out, if he's not then he is an idiot who would rather not ruffle Horcoff's feathers than piss off his whole hometown (the arena issue/threatening to move, etc.).
And then he was hired back in a higher position after being fired from his last 3 jobs, one being with the oilers, so what do you have to say about that?

Obviously we are better off without Horcoffs contract, I never said we weren't but Darell Katz is a crocked man and crocked men build crocked houses.

If you want to keep believing there's a Santa then fine but I am telling you that Katz is an evil man and he has made it clear to me that he dosnt care about the city of Edmonton or the oilers.

if you still want to discuss the topic fine but dont try and belittle my argument buy saying stuff like I am "spewing garbage"

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11-14-2012, 11:58 AM
  #396
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Whos the 3rd line center, whos gunna take important face offs? whos gunna play tough minutes. Horcs contract sucks but it doesnt prevent us from signing key peices and we need his services
Belanger for now until we find a longer term solution. We need someone to provide his services, what we don't need is those services being provided while being the highest paid player on the team for the '12-13 season.

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RNH and those guys being on whatever is irrelevant. The fact is it's over 8mil for a player to do nothing.

In case you've missed Katz is penny pinching on an arena deal right now, not going to look good if he continues his old ways and throws money at nothing.
He has to be above the cap floor anyway and there'd be no better powerplay on his part that to get this team to start winning and then keep beating the "we'll move card".

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It's really simple, Katz and company need to sit down figure out what the actually worth Horcoff is and whether or not it's worth it to buy him out and then replace him with a 2-3mil player. Odds are at best they figure they'd break even and at that point I doubt they buy him out.
Play Belanger in that role in the interim until a guy like Lander is ready, or trade for/sign said player type. You might break even in real $, but it opens the ability to acquire better players or picks due to having the cap space to be creative.

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11-14-2012, 12:03 PM
  #397
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And then he was hired back in a higher position after being fired from his last 3 jobs, one being with the oilers, so what do you have to say about that?

Obviously we are better off without Horcoffs contract, I never said we weren't but Darell Katz is a crocked man and crocked men build crocked houses.

If you want to keep believing there's a Santa then fine but I am telling you that Katz is an evil man and he has made it clear to me that he dosnt care about the city of Edmonton or the oilers.

if you still want to discuss the topic fine but dont try and belittle my argument buy saying stuff like I am "spewing garbage"
Saying ridiculous crap like "do you still believe in Santa" does nothing but stir the pot so that is the garbage that I speak of. The point with MacT is that he was sacked and he is best buds with Lowe and Katz. I'm not ruling out that we might bring Horc back for a management/coaching/player role in a few years, but if we can **** can MacT we can be rid of Horcoff as well. I hope that you are wrong for obvious reasons, this could be a golden opportunity to vastly improve our club and take advantage of the next CBA.

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11-14-2012, 12:11 PM
  #398
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And then he was hired back in a higher position after being fired from his last 3 jobs, one being with the oilers, so what do you have to say about that?

Obviously we are better off without Horcoffs contract, I never said we weren't but Darell Katz is a crocked man and crocked men build crocked houses.

If you want to keep believing there's a Santa then fine but I am telling you that Katz is an evil man and he has made it clear to me that he dosnt care about the city of Edmonton or the oilers.

if you still want to discuss the topic fine but dont try and belittle my argument buy saying stuff like I am "spewing garbage"
Are you saying Katz isnt Santa?

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11-14-2012, 12:18 PM
  #399
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Whos the 3rd line center, whos gunna take important face offs? whos gunna play tough minutes. Horcs contract sucks but it doesnt prevent us from signing key peices and we need his services
Very simple,the Oilers are going to go all out and sign Travis Zajac to a 6 year deal worth 33 million dollars.

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11-14-2012, 12:18 PM
  #400
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Belanger for now until we find a longer term solution. We need someone to provide his services, what we don't need is those services being provided while being the highest paid player on the team for the '12-13 season.



He has to be above the cap floor anyway and there'd be no better powerplay on his part that to get this team to start winning and then keep beating the "we'll move card".



Play Belanger in that role in the interim until a guy like Lander is ready, or trade for/sign said player type. You might break even in real $, but it opens the ability to acquire better players or picks due to having the cap space to be creative.
Well there was talk that bonuses would count towards cap so there goes your cap floor.

Fact remains it's 8.5mil for nothing or 13mil or about a 2.5m-3mil player for 3 years.

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