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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

ESPN's MacGregor on the lockout, the NHL and Bettman

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:01 AM
  #26
Crease
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I wouldn't classify myself as pro-owner or pro-player. I'm more of a pro-players-should-just-accept-their-fate-and-sign-a-deal. If someone could come up with a catchy shortname I'd be able to better market my stance

I can't disagree with the notion that the NHL's modus operandi is bully tactics. And you know what, directly or indirectly, its the reason why theres so much unncessary animosity and distrust during these negotiations. It's clear the fight is no longer only about CBA issues. And the reason lies on the owners side of the negotiating table.

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:57 AM
  #27
ottawah
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Just had too

Run some quick numbers on salary raises since Bettman came into the league, and compare that with the other major sports.

Football has tripled salaries.
Baseball has tripled salaries.
NBA has quadrupled salaries.
NHL is more than football and baseball combined (just over 6 times as much).

One could argue the only poorly run part of this league is that the player raises since Bettman came in have been far far too lavish .....

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Old
11-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #28
Bubba Thudd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Let's make a deal. I'll find the anti-Gary articles and make sure they're posted, and if I miss a pro-Gary article (or if anyone else does for that matter), --> you <-- can post the link.
Why not just make one anti-Bettman thread, and post all the articles you find in that single thread?

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Old
11-14-2012, 08:52 AM
  #29
Falconone
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yeah but that's not on the table

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
Is Sidney the godfather?

Question for all the player supporters who do you think would have the better ideas and structure to grow a business. A bunch of billionaire business men or 700 players a lot of which have a high school education? The game and the players have prospered since the last lockout. The salaries have doubled. What exactly about the last lockout did the players lose? Go to 50% tell the league to shove the free agent changes, agree to the 5% get a few other perks and work your ass off to grow the game so you are getting 50% of 4 billion dollars it's really not rocket science. And most of all shut your freakin mouths. Every time a current player does an interview or sends out a twitter they sound like a spoiled kid who's dad bought him a BMW but he wanted a Porsche. Making more fans dislike them which in turn gives the owners more power when they keep reading from fans "lock them out forever, break the union etc.
PB, what you propose might actually work, but that offer has never been on the table. What has been on the table required that the PA accept the NHL position on player contract rights without any modification.

Not likely to happen. I've felt all along that the area of player conract rights was the key to getting a deal done and the PA viewed it as important and the NHL did too. Hence their resitance to change their stance on that aspect of the CBA.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:32 AM
  #30
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Great another dope with the opinion that rich people should be willing to lose money in a business or investment.

Why? Well, because they have money and should just hand it over to some union schlub.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:38 AM
  #31
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Yes, the game of hockey has grown invisible. Nevermind the increased revenue and highest SCF ratings since the 1970s....

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:41 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
Yes, the game of hockey has grown invisible. Nevermind the increased revenue and highest SCF ratings since the 1970s....
You're not talking about this year's SCF's ratings, are you?

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:29 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconone View Post
PB, what you propose might actually work, but that offer has never been on the table. What has been on the table required that the PA accept the NHL position on player contract rights without any modification.

Not likely to happen. I've felt all along that the area of player conract rights was the key to getting a deal done and the PA viewed it as important and the NHL did too. Hence their resitance to change their stance on that aspect of the CBA.
Yeah but the whole idea is you agree to the 5% and say the cost of that is free agency stays the same. Maybe tweak the ELC a little as long as the money goes to older more established players and not just in the owners pockets. But the NHLPA doesn't do that they ignore the league proposal and come back with some other proposal that's apples to the league's orange. Take the NHL's offer cross off what you hate add the things you want and give it back and go from there.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:31 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
And here I thought it was ESPN that was doing its best to make the nhl invisible.
Ever since the NHL went to Versus,
ESPN slams hockey every chance it gets

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:37 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Let's make a deal. I'll find the anti-Gary articles and make sure they're posted, and if I miss a pro-Gary article (or if anyone else does for that matter), --> you <-- can post the link.
Those Pro-Gary articles should go really nicely with all those Pro-Fehr articles that are out there. Since he's been such a saint, after all.

Should I add a handclap smiley too, to go for equal smugness?

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:40 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Great another dope with the opinion that rich people should be willing to lose money in a business or investment.

Why? Well, because they have money and should just hand it over to some union schlub.
If you buy a sports team as an investment to make money, aren't you kinda stupid in the first place? It's more of a playtoy for the rich more than anything else.

If you truly wanted to make money, be a Wirtz or the Marlins owner and run your team that way.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:59 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
If you buy a sports team as an investment to make money, aren't you kinda stupid in the first place? It's more of a playtoy for the rich more than anything else.

If you truly wanted to make money, be a Wirtz or the Marlins owner and run your team that way.
Just because a professional sports franchise isn't a business owner's primary source of income doesn't necessarily mean that it should be a cash sink.

If the average bystander had the choice, and the ability, to turn your expensive hobby into a financially self-sustaining one, what do you think they would do?

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
This alone shows the article is a near sham.

Granted I've not been the happiest with the job Bettman has done, but he has done a far better job than those before him. He now has a national TV contract, players salaries have grown through the roof.
No, the salaries went through the roof prior to the last lockout, hence the 'need' for that one. This time, maybe they reached the ceiling.

Quote:
The growth he has orchestrated has been greater than baseball and basketball. Hockey is more popular in the States, and watched by more people than ever.
Do tell. What metric are you using exactly? Phoenix is in bankruptcy, Atlanta was relocated to a small city in Canada. More fans? More TV eyeballs? More $$?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Why not just make one anti-Bettman thread, and post all the articles you find in that single thread?
I don't like catch-all threads. No one forces anyone to read any thread, or furthermore, to respond.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
Yes, the game of hockey has grown invisible. Nevermind the increased revenue and highest SCF ratings since the 1970s....
Yet a lockout is needed after the amazing revenue growth. That's being beaten to death, but to the bold section. The NHL has managed to get back to where it was in the 1970s? What happened in the 1990's and the early 2000's then? Or last year? I don't know that the SCF ratings trends really help your argument, but I do think one thing last year's ratings indicate is that the teams in the SCF finals have more to do with ratings than the popularity of hockey in a national sense. Hockey fans are tribal (fans of teams vs a the sport)-- and that's the NHL's description.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:05 PM
  #39
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The writer lacks fundamental understanding of how the salary system works in the NHL.

"They overpaid"

No they paid the percentage of HRR that was dictated by the previous CBA. They paid what was contractually obligated.


Last edited by cheswick: 11-14-2012 at 01:24 PM.
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Old
11-14-2012, 01:17 PM
  #40
ottawah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
No, the salaries went through the roof prior to the last lockout, hence the 'need' for that one. This time, maybe they reached the ceiling.
Still happened under Bettman

/
Quote:

Do tell. What metric are you using exactly? Phoenix is in bankruptcy, Atlanta was relocated to a small city in Canada. More fans? More TV eyeballs? More $$?

Baseball is easy enough to compare. Pheonix in bankruptcy? La Dodgers in bankruptcy. Atlanta relocated? Montreal relocated.


Players salaries alone have risen astronomically compared to baseball.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:41 PM
  #41
KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
If you buy a sports team as an investment to make money, aren't you kinda stupid in the first place? It's more of a playtoy for the rich more than anything else.

If you truly wanted to make money, be a Wirtz or the Marlins owner and run your team that way.
So, they should just lose money?

There is no reason for the owners to accept your assertion. It's their investment and their money. They have every right to negotiate a CBA that will make them profitable.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:48 PM
  #42
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Best article I've read so far that effectively points to the real cause of the lockout and probable cause at this trajectory of the NHL's demise.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #43
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Why are the Owner slamming articles always full of horse bleep?

Is there any actual information in there? Any actual reporting?

It's like watching a kid whine and cry.

"Hi I'm Joe NHLPA. I support the players because I believe in Free markets and their rights!"
It's funny how those words are used as rallying flags to Identify with Western.. actually more so American RAH RAH. OMG did someone say rights!... get them! whose rights! nobody touches anybodies rights here!

Free market is the American way, not necessarily the right way.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Baseball is easy enough to compare. Pheonix in bankruptcy? La Dodgers in bankruptcy. Atlanta relocated? Montreal relocated.
ottawah, I usually agree with things you say but I can't here.

The nature of the two bankruptcy cases are wildly different. With the Dodgers, there was a gross mismanagement of revenue. With Phoenix, they can't obtain the minimum revenue needed to stay in buiness under the NHL's current structure.

And how long ago did Montreal relocate? 18 years ago? I don't see how thats relevant to a discussion about the sports entertainment industry in today's market.

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11-14-2012, 02:17 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...ship-stalemate

"We're past the point of give and take," NHL commissioner Gary Bettman reportedly growled on their behalf last weekend. Grrrrrr.
growled?



Reads like high school journalism.

Saved me the trouble of reading the rest of the article.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:53 PM
  #46
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And how long ago did Montreal relocate? 18 years ago? I don't see how thats relevant to a discussion about the sports entertainment industry in today's market.
Eight years ago, not 18.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Still happened under Bettman

/


Baseball is easy enough to compare. Pheonix in bankruptcy? La Dodgers in bankruptcy. Atlanta relocated? Montreal relocated.


Players salaries alone have risen astronomically compared to baseball.

I asked you about this statement:
Quote:
The growth he has orchestrated has been greater than baseball and basketball. Hockey is more popular in the States, and watched by more people than ever.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:57 PM
  #48
PeterSidorkiewicz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
So, they should just lose money?

There is no reason for the owners to accept your assertion. It's their investment and their money. They have every right to negotiate a CBA that will make them profitable.
The owners are attempting to rig the CBA so that it saves them from themselves, and gives them absolute certainty they cannot fail. All the failure will be passed onto the players side of things, with none on the owners.


On the flip side to the bolded statement, so do the players. And this is why were at right now. Both sides trying to maximize their profits as much as possible as opposed to coming to a legitimate fair agreement for both sides.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:00 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
Why are the Owner slamming articles always full of horse bleep?

Is there any actual information in there? Any actual reporting?

It's like watching a kid whine and cry.

"Hi I'm Joe NHLPA. I support the players because I believe in Free markets and their rights!"
It's funny how those words are used as rallying flags to Identify with Western.. actually more so American RAH RAH. OMG did someone say rights!... get them! whose rights! nobody touches anybodies rights here!

Free market is the American way, not necessarily the right way.
It's always great to see a group of 30 venture capitalists vote for a socialist system when it comes to sports. (As a fan, I'm a big fan of the salary cap, for what it's worth.)

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:01 PM
  #50
Stewie Griffin
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Originally Posted by Conflicted Habs fan View Post
Best article I've read so far that effectively points to the real cause of the lockout and probable cause at this trajectory of the NHL's demise.
Is it... Is it the ONLY article that you've read? Because I can tell you, there are plenty of others that are much better written and contain more than just opinion and/or second hand reports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandR View Post
growled?



Reads like high school journalism.

Saved me the trouble of reading the rest of the article.
Too bad. You missed the second use of "Grrrrr".

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