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Old
11-13-2012, 11:15 AM
  #201
Hockey Duckie
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Some say that +/- is very reliable stat, some say it`s completely useless. This is ridiculous, i am with the part that says that it means. Ok, you have to take every occasion itself, to judge it correctly, but if hockey would need a completely useless stat, they would count the skating movements in shift, or how many times player says a bad word or something.

In Hollands and Palmieri case i would really like to see more defensive awarness. Not saying they completely sucks, but i would like to see them do better. And if our best point producers are the ones with the worst +/- rating, there is something wrong. They get the most points (some are on PP, when they don`t get a +, though). THey play a bit more than other lines, yes, but our lineup is evened up pretty much, and i have seen it too in those games i`ve seen.

Personally, i think those guys tries to do something defensively, but they just lack that extra 5-10% to be super effective. At least it was as much as i`ve seen this year. If Holly is even reported as a two way forward, i haven`t seen that much of his two way game yet this season.

They`re doing great on the score sheet, but they will need a bit of defensive game too. Hopefully they turn something around!

To be fair, the whole team has sucked defensively and our netminders haven't been on top of their game. Granted, the team should still be able to play defense, team defense, but this is a learning stage. I'm not concerned about Holly-Palms, but I'm more concerned about DSP. I expected him to dominate on the boards and some assists being NHL quality and from the previews of the coaches on an interview after week 1. DSP is missing and the coaches need to light that fire on him. Where's that leadership he was displaying for Team Canada last year?!

We also have a lot of new people in the system that can affect chemistry (or communication) between the players and between the coaches. On defense, we have Lindholm and Vatanen. On offense, we have Etem, Lasch, and Etem. And then we have the youngings in net with Bobkov and Andersen. I don't mind having growing pains and don't look at the win-loss record so much as long as they prospects are showing improvements.

But I am feeling down about DSP, Clark, and Guenin. I expect more from them at the AHL level. Instead, we're talking more about Vatanen, Lindholm, and Wagner, newbies looking good (and bad in Vatanen's case recently).

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:48 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie View Post
To be fair, the whole team has sucked defensively and our netminders haven't been on top of their game. Granted, the team should still be able to play defense, team defense, but this is a learning stage. I'm not concerned about Holly-Palms, but I'm more concerned about DSP. I expected him to dominate on the boards and some assists being NHL quality and from the previews of the coaches on an interview after week 1. DSP is missing and the coaches need to light that fire on him. Where's that leadership he was displaying for Team Canada last year?!

We also have a lot of new people in the system that can affect chemistry (or communication) between the players and between the coaches. On defense, we have Lindholm and Vatanen. On offense, we have Etem, Lasch, and Etem. And then we have the youngings in net with Bobkov and Andersen. I don't mind having growing pains and don't look at the win-loss record so much as long as they prospects are showing improvements.

But I am feeling down about DSP, Clark, and Guenin. I expect more from them at the AHL level. Instead, we're talking more about Vatanen, Lindholm, and Wagner, newbies looking good (and bad in Vatanen's case recently).
I agree that our whole team looks bad defensively, but it looks sad that our leaders have the worst +/-. And yeah, i can only agree with you about DSP.

I`m also dissapointed about Clark too, i imagined that he`ll be much, much better. I`m not as dissapointed in Guenin, i think he`s doing well. I don`t think he should be our top point producer on the bleline with Vatanen and Lindholm on it. He and Lindholm is probably our best defensemen.

Hopefully Ads can turn their game around to a good way in upcoming games. this road trip was very long and they were super tired.

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11-13-2012, 12:06 PM
  #203
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If not posted, highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QckIHbosskE

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11-13-2012, 04:26 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
I`m also dissapointed about Clark too, i imagined that he`ll be much, much better.
Clarks biggest problem is his skating. He's so slow out there.

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11-13-2012, 04:54 PM
  #205
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Clarks biggest problem is his skating. He's so slow out there.
Keep a close eye on him the next time you watch Norfolk. He isn't slow. He may not utilize his speed well, but it's there.

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11-13-2012, 05:01 PM
  #206
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Keep a close eye on him the next time you watch Norfolk. He isn't slow. He may not utilize his speed well, but it's there.
I'll keep an eye on him. I've seen him lug the puck up ice a few times and he looked slow as hell doing it. It could be that he's not utilising his skating ability though.

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11-13-2012, 09:55 PM
  #207
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I'll keep an eye on him. I've seen him lug the puck up ice a few times and he looked slow as hell doing it. It could be that he's not utilising his skating ability though.
I only noticed it a few games back. I've only seen it when he's going for a hit or rushing back. I agree that he needs to improve in that area. Hell, it might be what ultimately holds him back from having more than third pairing potential. He looks like he's going to be a slow burn either way.

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11-14-2012, 04:28 AM
  #208
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While you're mentioning Dan Boyle, you should note that he got full-time spot in the NHL at the age of 24. Visnovsky also at 24, and if memory serves me right Rafalski at 25. Different times yes, but there's still plenty of time for young Sami, he may surpass them all yet.
Thisx1000. It's way too early to say that Vatanen couldn't play in NHL. He has just played 11 games in AHL in a team with problems in defence and goaltending. It's not like people are saying Etem is a bust even though he has been worse than Vatanen.

I like to compare Vatanen to Kimmo Timonen who is same sized offensive defender who has learnt over his career to play good defence as well. Vatanen is a smart player and with good coaching he could be Timonen 2.0. It's not going to happen over night but with time. And if he doesn't end up like Timonen, he could very well be the next Visnovsky or Karlsson who both pretty much are 4th forwards during 5on5. Put a good defensive minded dman with him and it should be alright.

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11-14-2012, 05:20 AM
  #209
Sean Garrity
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All the bickering back and forth about Vatanen is ridiculous. All of us have said and knew that it was going to take time for him to adjust to the NA game, especially with him being undersized. That is not even bringing in to consideration his age, confidence issues due to his change, role change, culture change, travel change, team change, etc...



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11-14-2012, 05:28 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Sean Garrity View Post
All the bickering back and forth about Vatanen is ridiculous. All of us have said and knew that it was going to take time for him to adjust to the NA game, especially with him being undersized. That is not even bringing in to consideration his age, confidence issues due to his change, role change, culture change, travel change, team change, etc...


I dont think anyone is writing him off, but just pointing out mistakes, that leads to ''violent discussions''

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11-14-2012, 05:32 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
I dont think anyone is writing him off, but just pointing out mistakes, that leads to ''violent discussions''
This is my point. We could nitpick every single player if we wanted too, but it is pointless. Then again, there is a lockout, so we might as well argue about something .

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Old
11-14-2012, 08:42 AM
  #212
Kalvinators
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Originally Posted by Sean Garrity View Post
This is my point. We could nitpick every single player if we wanted too, but it is pointless. Then again, there is a lockout, so we might as well argue about something .
Indeed

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11-14-2012, 09:49 AM
  #213
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Funny how all the North American players are now playing in Europe and the European players are in NA., must be some really good hockey being played over there right now.

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11-15-2012, 07:00 AM
  #214
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Funny how all the North American players are now playing in Europe and the European players are in NA., must be some really good hockey being played over there right now.
Racist

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