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MLB Off-Season Thread | Jays Acquire Dickey From Mets

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Old
11-14-2012, 06:31 AM
  #26
Steveorama
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
I hope so, but I think I'll need to see it to believe it. Looking at their career averages they have remarkably similar per-game numbers outside of steals, with most of the differences in Reyes' favour, except Reyes makes triple what Escobar earns. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the deal, I'm just saying the upgrade we're getting is coming predominantly in the rotation, not at shortstop. Agree to disagree if you want.
The fact that Reyes has never written homophobic slurs on his face for a game makes him a little more desirable than Escobar, methinks.
Yunel had to go. The fact that AA got something better for him is miraculous.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:32 AM
  #27
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I'm loving the trade. They didn't have to give up their 1st or 2nd best pitching prospects in Syndergaard and Sanchez. That's still

Syndergaard
Sanchez
Norris
Osuna

solid.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:36 AM
  #28
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Now the Jays need to find a 2nd baseman and they will have a very solid, complete roster.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:45 AM
  #29
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Kelly Johnson was no slouch at second, I wouldn't mind him coming back again to be honest. I think our infield looks pretty good now, and like someone else mentioned, Escobar getting suspended for putting slurs on his face basically meant that he needed to take a walk. It's amazing that we finally have starting pitching.

And really, hating the Blue Jays because they are based in Toronto is pointless. I love the Jays because as it was mentioned, they broadcast worldwide and they recognize their fanbase across Canada.

Plus, 92 and 93 were some of the best moments of baseball for me as a kid ever.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:17 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Pitching was already a weak spot for the Blue Jays, and when the injury bug hit, they went from a slightly above .500 team with an outside wild card chance to a team that badly tanked during a 25+ game span and never recovered. This team has a couple of good sluggers in Jose Bautista and Enwin Encarbacion to build around, and now they also have a base-stealing potential all star shortstop. They also pick up two starters that will slot in at #2 and #3 in the rotation. Boston is in the tank, NY is old, Baltimore and Tampa can be caught. Now is the time to load up. This will push their payroll above $100M, so this will make or break AA.
Curious as to who you think is the 'Ace' of the staff....after last year it sure as heck is not Romero....Morrow has the best stuff, if he ever develop consistency he could be an all-star.

If I'm guessing now, Buerhle gets the opening day start.
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Now the Jays need to find a 2nd baseman and they will have a very solid, complete roster.
I'd imagine Bonifacio and Izturis will alternate at 2B.

I think they really need a left handed power bat to really cement themselves as a contender...not holding my breath on Lind re-discovering his Silver Slugger form, but you never know.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:38 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Are you old enough to remember the '92 and '93 world series? If so, do you remember how crazy it drove the Americans that the championship team for their national pastime resided outside of the USA? Remember when the US Marines Corps flew our flag upside down during the national anthem?

http://www.bluejayhunter.com/2012/06...-canadian.html

I'm anti-Maple Leafs, not anti-Toronto... I don't mind seeing the Raptors do well, and I've always put the Jays above the Mariners. The Blue Jays home market includes the entire country, which is why their games are on sportsnet coast-to-coast. The Seattle Mariners management might appreciate Canadian fans filling their stands, but if they win, they won't likely recognize their Vancouver fan base.
Excellent post, and some very valid points. I'm a Mariners fan, and you're likely right.

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Old
11-14-2012, 05:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Are you old enough to remember the '92 and '93 world series? If so, do you remember how crazy it drove the Americans that the championship team for their national pastime resided outside of the USA? Remember when the US Marines Corps flew our flag upside down during the national anthem?

http://www.bluejayhunter.com/2012/06...-canadian.html

I'm anti-Maple Leafs, not anti-Toronto... I don't mind seeing the Raptors do well, and I've always put the Jays above the Mariners. The Blue Jays home market includes the entire country, which is why their games are on sportsnet coast-to-coast. The Seattle Mariners management might appreciate Canadian fans filling their stands, but if they win, they won't likely recognize their Vancouver fan base.
I've been a Blue Jays fan since the early 90's and I have some great memories of that team. I will always be a fan regardless of where they're located.

All the Mariner fans can suck it. One of the worst organizations in baseball. Can't even win in an easy division.

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Old
11-14-2012, 06:17 PM
  #33
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The Blue Jays are Canada's team (who would've thunk it?) so I don't see what the difference would be if they were based in Nova Scotia, Winnipeg or wherever, it's Canada's team.

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Old
11-14-2012, 06:18 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
I've been a Blue Jays fan since the early 90's and I have some great memories of that team. I will always be a fan regardless of where they're located.

All the Mariner fans can suck it. One of the worst organizations in baseball. Can't even win in an easy division.
Remember when the Mariners went 116-46 in 2001, most wins since the 1906 Cubs, and got beat by the Yankees in the ALCS for the second year in a row? They've had 2 above .500 seasons since 2004, 4 since 2001 but haven't made the playoffs. The last couple seasons they have been around the .400 mark and jettisoned Ichiro Suzuki this past season to the Yankees. There hasn't been much to get excited about lately.

True, the Blue Jays haven't made the playoffs since their '93 world series win, but they at least have the powerhouse AL East excuse. AL West only has 4 teams and doesn't include 2 of the traditionally highest payroll teams in baseball.

Blue Jays odds (on Bovada) for winning the 2013 World Series went from 35-1 to 14-1 post trade. Marlins odds went from 40-1 to 100-1.

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Old
11-14-2012, 06:52 PM
  #35
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Good for the Jays, hope to see them in the playoffs so that I can finally be bothered to watch some baseball...

...you see, I'm an Indians fan.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:45 PM
  #36
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Reyes
Lawrie
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Rasmus
Arencibia

That is pretty filthy.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:13 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
I don't mind baseball, but loathe all things Toronto, and all this "we" stuff in reference to Toronto's team is nausea inducing. How exactly did they become "we"? Because they play a mere 3000 miles away? Whoop de doo. I'll cheer for Canadian players, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I care what the Blew **** or the Crapturds accomplish.

Immature? Definitely. Subject to change? Hell, no.
Note: when I said "we" I meant solely the regular posters in the hf Canucks subforum. To paraphrase the post you quoted: "I'm so depressed a bunch of Canucks fans have so little hockey-related news to discuss in their own forum dedicated to their own hockey team that anything baseball or Blue Jays related merited two threads in the general discussion section."

For the record, I did bandwagon with the Blue Jays when they were winning World Series Championships, but it was largely due to my best friend at the time who was a much more involved sports fan than I was and he was a massive Jays fan. I haven't cared about anything baseball-related for many years aside from the occasional Canadians game, and I honestly don't recognize a single name involved in this trade. Hate the Leafs, but I'm completely indifferent to the Blue Jays.

Just wanted to clarify. Carry on.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:10 AM
  #38
PG Canuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Reyes
Lawrie
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Rasmus
Arencibia

That is pretty filthy.
It's aight.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:49 AM
  #39
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You know what to do, AA.

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:51 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
I don't know any of those players
are they better than Barry Bonds?
No matter what you think of him, Barry Bonds is a Hall-of-Famer.
His numbers before the steroids were just sick, which you could tell by the sudden spike in home run totals when he was 35.

The players the Jays got were nowhere the talent of Bonds, but they are good ones.
Josh Johnson is an legit ace when healthy.
He has 4 strikeout pitches, and he is one of the best pitchers I have ever seen pitch.
Mark Buehrle is a workhorse, and is a pretty good mid-rotation starter.
He also had a perfect game and a no-hitter, and he is one of the best fielding pitchers, which really means nothing to be honest with you.
Reyes, when healthy, is pretty much a superstar.
He is pretty good on defense, has elite speed, and is virtually the prototypical lead-off man.
Emilio Bonifacio is the throw-in, but he can be key down the stretch.
He gets on base, and he can play multiple position.
He is perfect off the bench, or he can be good at 2B, the Jays biggest need right now.

Best of all, the package the Jays gave was good, but not that significant in the grand scheme of things.
Alvarez has good stuff and he is young, but I think he tops out at a No. 3 starter at best.
Adeiny Hechavarria has a great glove with great range, but his bat is really suspect.
He is young, but I really doubt his bat can get better.
Yunel Escobar has talent, but he is just not right in the head.
After that offensive incident, he had to go.
Mathis is the backup catcher.
They are dime-a-dozen.

The parts that were significant were probably Justin Nicolino and Jake Marisnick.
Nicolino were part of the "Lansing 3", the 3 best pitching prospect the Jays had.
Still, he was the third of the 3, and his stuff were not as good as the other 2.
Marisnick has 5-tool potential, but he needs work on his bat.
These pieces are significant, but the Jays still kept most of their best prospects.

All in all, I love this trade, and the Jays got better immediately.
However, it is all on paper.
The top guys the Jays got (Johnson and Reyes) has some injury risks, and turf can be tough for a guy like Reyes.
Furthermore, Johnson can walk after the year, and only draft picks would be the compensation.
Still, if it all works out, and the guys the Jays already have rebound and stay healthy, it is very possible a playoff spot is within reach.
Still, everything has to work out, so while I am optimistic, I am still a little bit weary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Reyes
Lawrie
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Rasmus
Arencibia

That is pretty filthy.
Lind and Arencibia is probably gone, to be honest with you.
Lind is pretty much done, because his confidence is shot and he is chasing too many bad pitches for 2 years in a row now, and the Jays still have 3 other catchers on the roster, one of whom is a stud prospect ready to take over, so they probably would trade them to both free up some money and for help in the left field and on 2nd base.

But I agree, the roster is looking very dangerous, provided Lawrie reach his potential and everyone stays healthy.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:16 AM
  #41
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I'm a Baseball newb. Are Jays at the Yankee level yet? Or just contenders?

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:21 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
I'm a Baseball newb. Are Jays at the Yankee level yet? Or just contenders?
People are now labelling the Jays as playoff contenders, but we were suppose to make noise this year as well I believe, and that didn't go well. Practically, I'll believe we're playoff contenders once we actually make the playoffs, and potentially make some noise there too. Jays can compete with their division now, and possibly win it if everyone stays healthy and performs.

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Old
11-15-2012, 02:29 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Now the Jays need to find a 2nd baseman and they will have a very solid, complete roster.
We need a Left outfielder.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:08 AM
  #44
nameless1
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
I'm a Baseball newb. Are Jays at the Yankee level yet? Or just contenders?
To be quite honest with you, the Yankees are more of a name brand right now.
They are still good, and should contend, but the team is aging fast, and they do have holes throughout the lineup and rotation.
They are no longer the automatic champions of the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
People are now labelling the Jays as playoff contenders, but we were suppose to make noise this year as well I believe, and that didn't go well. Practically, I'll believe we're playoff contenders once we actually make the playoffs, and potentially make some noise there too. Jays can compete with their division now, and possibly win it if everyone stays healthy and performs.
As PG says.
Baseball playoffs are very difficult to break into.
A team plays 162 games, and only the 5 teams with the best records in each league (American league, where the Jays are in, and the National League) gets into it.
The Jays have a good shot at the playoffs, but it is far from a sure thing.
Everything depends on health, and if everyone plays to their potential.
Still, from the look of things, the bullpen looks good, the lineup looks a lot better, and the rotation looks pretty good on paper.
Best of all, there are some depth on the bench.

Last year, people got excited because there is an extra wild card spot.
The optimism is really from the media, because the Jays had a very good farm system.
However, after the team lost 3 out of 5 starting pitchers in a week in July, their depth got exposed and the season was basically lost.
People like to say that injuries should not be blamed, but no team can survive when 60% of the starting rotation is injured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
We need a Left outfielder.
Probably both to be honest with you.
But 2B is so thin in free agency, and they signed a 2B in free agency (Izturis), and got one (Bonifacio) who can play the position, so I would not be surprised if they stay put.

People floated the idea of Gose in center and Rasmus in left, which is possible, but Gose really needs to learn how to hit.
I think he is not quite ready yet.
Luckily they have pieces to trade, and there are some serviceable ones in free agency.

But I think the biggest need is 1B/ DH.
There are no internal options.
Lind is done, and I do not want to see Buck or Arencibia there.
I think this is what AA pursues now.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:15 AM
  #45
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Kelly Johnson was no slouch at second, I wouldn't mind him coming back again to be honest.
KJ just can't hit for average, and the lineup has enough power that the 15-20 home runs he brings are not significant enough.
He plays adequate defense, but there is really no point of bringing him back right now.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:54 AM
  #46
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I'm a Baseball newb. Are Jays at the Yankee level yet? Or just contenders?
14-1 odds on winning the 2013 World Series. Over/Under for wins next season is 87.5. So, basically a 88-74 season would be about right. 95-67 was the Yankees record last year, and 93-69 was the record of the two wild card teams.

They are within striking distance of the playoffs now. The Yankees are having issues with A-Rod, and are an aging team. The Blue Jays already had a good core of hitters to build around but lacked starting pitching. They have addressed that need in a big way with this trade. They were a .500 team until the injury bug hit this team in a big way. I think that if things go right, they are definitely a division title threat or at least could sneak into the wild card game.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:41 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by nameless1 View Post
People floated the idea of Gose in center and Rasmus in left, which is possible, but Gose really needs to learn how to hit.
I think he is not quite ready yet.
Luckily they have pieces to trade, and there are some serviceable ones in free agency.

But I think the biggest need is 1B/ DH.
There are no internal options.
Lind is done, and I do not want to see Buck or Arencibia there.
I think this is what AA pursues now.
This is the genius of this trade.
If you are losing games because you have no front line pitchers, or no elite shortstop, that is bad news.
But if you are losing games because you need a 1B or DH or LF...well, by comparison, that is good news.
AA can get a decent hitting guy at those postions for a ride to the airport.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #48
Vancouver_2010
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why couldn't they allow more teams in the playoffs?

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:20 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
I'm a Baseball newb. Are Jays at the Yankee level yet? Or just contenders?
Things still need to go the Jays way for them to compete. The Yankees and Redsox can afford to spend much more on depth and in their bullpen, injuries and off years don't effect them as much as they do the Jays. The Jays have to stay relatively healthy and get good to great years from all their key contributors to contend.

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why couldn't they allow more teams in the playoffs?
They have.

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:47 PM
  #50
nameless1
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why couldn't they allow more teams in the playoffs?
It is because of history.
In the 1900s, there were very few teams, so the team with the best record in each league play each other to determine the champion.

Then in 1969, there were more teams, so each league is divided into 2 divisions, and the team with the best record in each division play each other to determine the League champion.
Then, these League champions play each other in the World Series.

By the 1990s, as there are even more teams now, playoffs were even harder to break into.
San Francisco had 103 wins in 1993 and still missed the playoffs.
Thus, in 1994, they divided each league into 3 divisions, and they added a wild card to balance out the playoff picture.

Last year, they finally added one more wild card spot, to make it a 5 team playoff format.

Baseball is very steeped in tradition.
Things does not change that easily.
Still, at the same time, it makes the playoffs very exciting.
There is pride in making the playoffs, and once a team get in, anything can happen.
That is why come September and October, most people are glued to the TV watching baseball.

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