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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VI: The "What Comes Before Square One?" Edition

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Old
11-14-2012, 07:57 AM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
@ChrisBottaNHL Don't disagree but Don Fehr tells NHLPA members that former players feel the 2004 lockout was worth it. Not necessarily true



Every former player who's spoken about it has clearly said that it was not worth it .
In the art of negotiation, you never want to be the party to acknowledge that the clock is ticking. It's a sign that you value getting a deal done more than you value getting what you want. Your adversary will recognize this and stall in hopes of drawing out more concessions.

You always want to establish an environment at the table where it appears your adversary is more eager to get the deal done than you are.

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11-14-2012, 08:49 AM
  #827
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I can't claim to know how anyone thinks but taking 3 or 4 twitter opinions from former players and applying it to 600+ people is a little more than misleading. These are the highest salary guys, so they lost the most in that lockout. They have jobs, or are looking for jobs with teams. Recchi comes off as a buffoon when the offers have clearly gotten better over time. I wish it was over already, but I cannot see how making public statements like this that compromises your former fraternity helps in any way. If you truly do have some sage advice, use the proper channels and say it privately. Not like this.

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11-14-2012, 09:35 AM
  #828
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Screw both sides at this point. I can't read anymore. I find both sides are pretty easy to detest.

Both sides should read the "Coping with Life without the NHL ‎" thread and be worried. The fans aren't missing it to the extent both sides think. The fact is the NHL is now competing with various other entertainment options (Netflix, On-Demand programing, Online programing, the gaming consoles and all they can do). The NHL was a distant fourth in popularity as it was and this will only further hurt interest. The economy has resulted in people with less disposable income but at the same time more options on what to spend that money on.

It might be a situation where the NHL and NHLPA saying "Don't know what you got 'til it's gone" when they realize they're fighting over pieces of a smaller pie.

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11-14-2012, 09:43 AM
  #829
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seriously who needs the nhl when you have Homeland!

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11-14-2012, 09:58 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Screw both sides at this point. I can't read anymore. I find both sides are pretty easy to detest.

Both sides should read the "Coping with Life without the NHL ‎" thread and be worried. The fans aren't missing it to the extent both sides think. The fact is the NHL is now competing with various other entertainment options (Netflix, On-Demand programing, Online programing, the gaming consoles and all they can do). The NHL was a distant fourth in popularity as it was and this will only further hurt interest. The economy has resulted in people with less disposable income but at the same time more options on what to spend that money on.

It might be a situation where the NHL and NHLPA saying "Don't know what you got 'til it's gone" when they realize they're fighting over pieces of a smaller pie.
I honestly feel that losing the entire season isn't far off at this point... once that happens the problems you state above will grow immeasurably.

They can fight all they want about contracts, 50/50, make-whole, and worst of all... WHO PAYS FOR LOST GAMES. But they'll be fighting for a fraction of what it was last season.

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11-14-2012, 10:20 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Screw both sides at this point. I can't read anymore. I find both sides are pretty easy to detest.

Both sides should read the "Coping with Life without the NHL ‎" thread and be worried. The fans aren't missing it to the extent both sides think. The fact is the NHL is now competing with various other entertainment options (Netflix, On-Demand programing, Online programing, the gaming consoles and all they can do). The NHL was a distant fourth in popularity as it was and this will only further hurt interest. The economy has resulted in people with less disposable income but at the same time more options on what to spend that money on.

It might be a situation where the NHL and NHLPA saying "Don't know what you got 'til it's gone" when they realize they're fighting over pieces of a smaller pie.
This is a load of **** though. Those fans will be back as soon as the lockout is over, they're just frustrated at the way its going now. It is frustrating, however, anyone that walks away because of it (a real fan beforehand not a casual one), isn't a real fan.

I'm sick of the lockout but I'll be back when it starts again because I love hockey. A real fan wouldn't not watch the sport ever again because of this.

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11-14-2012, 10:26 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
This is a load of **** though. Those fans will be back as soon as the lockout is over, they're just frustrated at the way its going now. It is frustrating, however, anyone that walks away because of it (a real fan beforehand not a casual one), isn't a real fan.

I'm sick of the lockout but I'll be back when it starts again because I love hockey. A real fan wouldn't not watch the sport ever again because of this.
Uh, OK. If they lose this season (and right now, that's hardly improbable) they are in uncharted waters. Losing two seasons in ten year span? That will have repercussions. I know plenty of people (some on this board) who have not been to a game since the last lockout.

Real fans watch hockey. Not all real fans feel the need to give their money to greedy owners and players by buying tickets, merchandise and concessions.

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11-14-2012, 10:33 AM
  #833
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I guerss this is not really Lock-out related, but does anyone know if the NHL or NHLPA have done and Sandy Relief efforts yet?

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11-14-2012, 10:33 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Uh, OK. If they lose this season (and right now, that's hardly improbable) they are in uncharted waters. Losing two seasons in ten year span? That will have repercussions. I know plenty of people (some on this board) who have not been to a game since the last lockout.

Real fans watch hockey. Not all real fans feel the need to give their money to greedy owners and players by buying tickets, merchandise and concessions.
I may go to one game per season after this and that's all, just to get out and go to a game. I'm done with ever considering season tickets or even buying merchandise. Maybe if the Rangers win the Cup I'll buy some souvenirs, but that will be the extent of it.

As you said in your other post, in today's world people can easily spend their money on things that will give them more "bang for their buck" than going to a game.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:36 AM
  #835
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Yep, I'm done buying shirts/ jerseys/ hats, etc. for the foreseeable future. I loved supporting the league and watching it grow. No thanks after this. Neither side cares about the fans.

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11-14-2012, 10:40 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
This is a load of **** though. Those fans will be back as soon as the lockout is over, they're just frustrated at the way its going now. It is frustrating, however, anyone that walks away because of it (a real fan beforehand not a casual one), isn't a real fan.

I'm sick of the lockout but I'll be back when it starts again because I love hockey. A real fan wouldn't not watch the sport ever again because of this.
They will keep the most passionate fans, but its the "casual" fans that they are fighting with other forms of entertainment over.
The NHL teams don't distinguish between real fans and casual fans. They are concerned with real dollars, doesn't matter who it comes from.

It sort of resembles the recent election, which was all about the "swing states". Each party has its loyal followers, like the NHL does, but in order to be successful you have to get the undecided crowd to buy in.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:41 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by WhipNash27 View Post
I may go to one game per season after this and that's all, just to get out and go to a game. I'm done with ever considering season tickets or even buying merchandise. Maybe if the Rangers win the Cup I'll buy some souvenirs, but that will be the extent of it.

As you said in your other post, in today's world people can easily spend their money on things that will give them more "bang for their buck" than going to a game.
What's strange is I was more upset and craving hockey during the first lockout when the team was lousy. Now, when they seem to have their best team in years, I'm more indifferent. That might be because I'm in a different place in my life now (being a father, for example), but I'm really put off by Lockout 2.0.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:41 AM
  #838
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Originally Posted by Tomas Sandstrom 28 View Post
They will keep the most passionate fans, but its the "casual" fans that they are fighting with other forms of entertainment over.
The NHL teams don't distinguish between real fans and casual fans. They are concerned with real dollars, doesn't matter who it comes from.
Very well said.

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11-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Uh, OK. If they lose this season (and right now, that's hardly improbable) they are in uncharted waters. Losing two seasons in ten year span? That will have repercussions. I know plenty of people (some on this board) who have not been to a game since the last lockout.

Real fans watch hockey. Not all real fans feel the need to give their money to greedy owners and players by buying tickets, merchandise and concessions.
Truer words have never been spoken.

The price of tickets is self-explanatory -- I love the atmosphere of NHL games, but I cant in good faith give my money to the owners and players when a ****show like this will inevitably ensue.

But the real kicker for me is the 17$ is costs to get a beer and a hot dog at a game. I dont know how season ticket holders willingly do that 41 times a year. Price gouging at its finest. I'd rather sit at home, cook my own dinner, grab a 6 pack for 10 bucks, and enjoy the game on TV.

Now these jerks wont even let me do that.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:11 AM
  #840
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I don't understand the complaint about food prices at arenas. If they were to drop the prices, lets say to a reasonable amount like $2 beers/$2 hot dogs/$5 hamburgers, the lines would take at least double the amount of time. Also, if they can sell it for texas$ and there are buyers, why the heck not? I eat before going to any hockey game and plan only to spend $8 for nachos.

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11-14-2012, 11:12 AM
  #841
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Truer words have never been spoken.

The price of tickets is self-explanatory -- I love the atmosphere of NHL games, but I cant in good faith give my money to the owners and players when a ****show like this will inevitably ensue.

But the real kicker for me is the 17$ is costs to get a beer and a hot dog at a game. I dont know how season ticket holders willingly do that 41 times a year. Price gouging at its finest. I'd rather sit at home, cook my own dinner, grab a 6 pack for 10 bucks, and enjoy the game on TV.

Now these jerks wont even let me do that.
You could sneak stuff easily into the arena with MSG's security. Hell you could probably bring in entire meals. No reason to waste money on concessions inside the arena.

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11-14-2012, 11:22 AM
  #842
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Screw both sides at this point. I can't read anymore. I find both sides are pretty easy to detest.

.
Pretty much this.

You reach a point where you don't care who's primarily at fault. It takes two to tango, the fact that both sides are still lollygagging over a pile of **** makes them both 100% responsible for their epic demise.

The really disturbing thing here, didn't they learn from their mistakes just a few years ago? Most people try to not replicate stupidity. Both parties here seem to be embracing it.

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11-14-2012, 11:22 AM
  #843
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You could sneak stuff easily into the arena with MSG's security. Hell you could probably bring in entire meals. No reason to waste money on concessions inside the arena.
ive in plenty of beers into the garden the last few years. its easy

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11-14-2012, 11:46 AM
  #844
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Uh, OK. If they lose this season (and right now, that's hardly improbable) they are in uncharted waters. Losing two seasons in ten year span? That will have repercussions. I know plenty of people (some on this board) who have not been to a game since the last lockout.

Real fans watch hockey. Not all real fans feel the need to give their money to greedy owners and players by buying tickets, merchandise and concessions.
Oh, yeah, agreed there. As far as watching it goes though...the real, passionate fans will be back despite this nonsense. I do agree the casual fan will make its way out. However, they'll get them back in a few years time, but not if this keeps repeating.

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11-14-2012, 11:51 AM
  #845
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So another week of radio silence? Guess Dec 1st is out the window.

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11-14-2012, 11:58 AM
  #846
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I wonder if the lockout spreads into next year if we might see an attempted competitor league rise again.

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11-14-2012, 12:01 PM
  #847
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I wonder if the lockout spreads into next year if we might see an attempted competitor league rise again.
I would guess not. Where would the players come from? Certainly any new league would not be able to compete with the SEl, KHL, etc when it comes to salaries they could pay players.

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11-14-2012, 12:16 PM
  #848
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This is a load of **** though. Those fans will be back as soon as the lockout is over, they're just frustrated at the way its going now.
This is where you are wrong. Having lost one season was bad enough. The league managed to recoved. Loosing 2 out of 8? They WILL loose fans that they will NEVER get back. And once the season is canceled, Fehr will be in absolutely no hurry to start the next one. Why? Becuase the pain that the owners feel for this season is NOTHING like what they will feel for next year. For this year, they sold seaosn tickets. Entering another year of no revenue PLUS not having sold a single season ticket is a whole different world. The players loose all leverage until the owners start to feel that sting.

I posted on this before. I am the fan that the NHL counts on. I have been on these boards when Smith was GM. Predate it even to Gameday. I have been brought up in a house where hockey is a religion, when my Dad and I would watch the Rangers on channel 9. I am a father of two girls, both of whom I am raising as Rangers fans. Since the last lockout, I have not paid to go to games. Oh, I have been to them, but only becuase I am fortunate enough to work in an industry where I get taken to sporting event. In the past two years, I have taken my girls to games. They know the names of players. They know when to cheer and for what. I even spent money on the anciliaries for them. If the season is canceled, there is a good reason that I do not come back. If two are canceled, then I will NOT come back. No more spending type of money on the NHL. The NHL will loose a hard core fan and the new fans that I am helping them cultivate. Hockey will die in my house.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:16 PM
  #849
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Uh, OK. If they lose this season (and right now, that's hardly improbable) they are in uncharted waters. Losing two seasons in ten year span? That will have repercussions. I know plenty of people (some on this board) who have not been to a game since the last lockout.

Real fans watch hockey. Not all real fans feel the need to give their money to greedy owners and players by buying tickets, merchandise and concessions.
Well said, Singin'.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:26 PM
  #850
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the real, passionate fans will be back despite this nonsense. I do agree the casual fan will make its way out. However, they'll get them back in a few years time, but not if this keeps repeating.
Are you saying that I am not a real fan if I do not come back?

Also, you keep ignoring the fact that to looose two seasons in 8 years has not been done. This would be the one league that has lost not only an entire year, but TWO of them. Last time, it was about a cap and they league grew around the Crosbys, Ovechkins of the world. How are they going to get the so-called casual fan even interested in the game? They changed the way that it is played last time. What are they going to do this time? Since Bettman took over, this league has had exaclty ONE home run. And that is the Winter Classic. With such a track record, what brilliant ideas will they have to move the casual fan back into it?

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