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Sergei Fedorov

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Old
11-11-2012, 03:40 PM
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars23 View Post
But if Jagr is so great in the nhl regular season, why hasn't he ever dominated in the NHL playoffs? He never had a dominant playoffs where he led in anything, excepts game played.

Fedorov lead the playoffs in Points in 1995, Assists in 1995 and 1996, GWG's in 1997 and Goals in 1998 and is only the third player in NHL History to have 4 straight 20 point playoffs campaigns.
Postseason Stats:

Jagr = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 11 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 9 postseasons

Fedorov = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 6 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 0 postseasons

Fedorov merely played a bunch of games as compared to Jagr, he wasn't dominating.

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11-11-2012, 03:50 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Postseason Stats:

Jagr = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 11 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 9 postseasons

Fedorov = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 6 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 0 postseasons

Fedorov merely played a bunch of games as compared to Jagr, he wasn't dominating.
Game, set, and match

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Old
11-11-2012, 04:55 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Postseason Stats:

Jagr = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 11 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 9 postseasons

Fedorov = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 6 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 0 postseasons

Fedorov merely played a bunch of games as compared to Jagr, he wasn't dominating.
Please and thank you.

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Old
11-11-2012, 05:07 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Stars23 View Post
OMG LOL Funniest post I've read so far! You really are pulling almost everything from air.

You obviously never watched team Russia play in the day, because Mogilny only played in 1996, Bure in 1998 and 2002 (with a Broken Hand) and Konstantinov never played in the Olympics or World Cup. So were you lying or misinformed?

Russia was missing half their team in 1998 because of the coaching problem Mogilny, Larionov, Fetisov, Khabibulin, Kozlov, Zubov etc, etc declined to play, Konstantinov's injury.. you never watched them obviously

Feds had better lines mates, so funny haha I think you mean Fedorov was the Better International Player - Game Over
Do you want me to name some of the Russian players in 1998 for the Olympics?

Alexei Yashin, Pavel Bure, Valeri Bure, Sergei Gonchar, Valeri Kamensky, Alexei Zhamnov.

These guys were already all NHL household names.

The Czechs had Jagr, Hasek, Rcinsky, Reichel and Straka that were already established NHL players. Everyone else on that Czech team were playing in Europe.

The fact that Fedorov had Bure to play, along shows that Fedorov had help Internationally. In fact some consider Bure to be the better Russian player. Who on the Czech team had anyone other than Jagr that was remotely as close to being as good as him on the team (minus the goalie of course)? Russia also had Yashin who was a premier talent back then as well.

Notice how no one else seems to agree with your posts and your arguments seem to fail when real stats that matter are brought up.

For all of Fedorov's overhyped 4, 20+ Pts playoff runs, in two of them he was below PPG, one he was exactly PPG another he was a bit over.

Why haven't you attacked the argument that Jagr's NHL teams were weaker than Fedorov's? I already know why, it's because it is true. Fedorov played on powerhouse teams in his prime while Jagr was the sole Hall of Fame caliber player on many of those teams he led to the playoffs.

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11-11-2012, 08:58 PM
  #305
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Maybe irrelevant for the purposes of this thread, but very few referencing the fact that Fedorov was a somewhat of an icon. The most well known Russian on a dominant Russian team. Nike skates and smooth stick handling and skating he was very well marketed.

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Old
11-12-2012, 12:17 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Postseason Stats:

Jagr = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 11 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 9 postseasons

Fedorov = 18 career seasons
Playoff PPG at 1.00 PPG or higher = 6 postseasons
Playoff GPG at 0.50 PPG or higher = 0 postseasons

Fedorov merely played a bunch of games as compared to Jagr, he wasn't dominating.
Career Playoff PPG:
Jagr 1.050, 25th all-time
Fedorov 0.962, 44th all-time
(Yzerman 0.944, 52nd all-time)

0.106 PPG separates 25th from 52nd overall.
lol?

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11-12-2012, 01:06 AM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I don't know maybe because you can't ignore what Yzerman did before Fedorov arrived.
Oh, no mistake, props to Yzerman for that 155 point season, and there's no ignoring that which I watched for myself. Only thing is, I have trouble putting too much emphasis on numbers accumulated during a time when the top performing goalies in the league included John Casey, Kari Takko, Mike Vernon, and Steve Weekes, who were posting save percentages of 0.900, 0.899, 0.897, and 0.893 respectively at the top of the stats tables. Even Roy, the league leader, only managed 0.908.

Adjusted for league scoring, that season still holds up against Fedorov's big season of 120 points, but I watched both seasons, and know there was a difference in goaltending by '93/94, when guys like Hasek, Beezer, Roy, Brodeur, and Joseph all posted save percentages between 0.930 and 0.911. Yzerman noticed, too, and never topped 100 points again after the league scoring craziness of '92/93, despite not facing his serious knee problems for nearly another decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Or the fact that He had more top 10 point finishes in that time period. Yzerman only had one less Selke and had a Conn Smythe. Yzerman was the leader of the team played at an elite level for longer.
Ever wonder if Steve Yzerman joined a team captained by Fedorov in Russia, would he ever have established the same reputation as a leader that he enjoys in the NHL? I doubt it, and I certainly don't hold that against Fedorov considering how well his production (regular, and particularly post season) holds up against Yzerman's. Similarly, no one really blames rare offensive talents for coming up short in accumulation races against guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, etc.

Yzerman was always my favourite of the two because he was "the leader" (of course), and because of how he always seemed to bounce back from injury (broken collarbone a few seasons before his "big one", his back problems that left Fedorov carrying the team for stretches in the early/mid-90s, the knee injury, etc), but I have never seen any great divide in their "calibre" or skills, and I watched '88/89 passionately - and then disappointedly - as a Habs fan and hockey player back in junior high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
No matter what way you rank them I don't see the argument for Fedorov above Forsberg. Forsberg was just so much better offensively. What is the argument for Fedorov on your "best players" list? That fact that he had one amazing season? I think Sakic, Forsberg and Yzerman all Better and longer primes with similar peaks.
Literally the only thing that Forsberg was better at "offensively" than Fedorov was using his linemates. Fedorov was the better skater, the better shooter, and just as comfortable with the puck on his stick. Maybe a bit more imagination/creativity when it came to things like penalty shots, I suppose. Forsberg played a more physical style of initiating lots of contact which was no doubt entertaining to watch, but realize that even in Forsberg's best seasons (be it his 116 points in '95/96, or his 106 in '02/03), Fedorov was scoring ~10 more goals than him, and playing that style was part of Forsberg's "downfall" in the end, kind of like Lindros. Even playing that style, Forsberg was unable to get himself into nearly as many good scoring opportunities as Fedorov.

As such, there's only so much credit you can really give Forsberg for "what could have been" when it's realized that his career value doesn't quite stack up to Fedorov's, and efforts must be made to boost the profile of his prime. Double the goals on slightly over double the number of shots over these guys' careers, and Fedorov ends up with the extra Cup ring as well. That's just part of what I'd consider a strong case for Fedorov vs. Forsberg.

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Old
11-12-2012, 08:42 AM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Oh, no mistake, props to Yzerman for that 155 point season, and there's no ignoring that which I watched for myself. Only thing is, I have trouble putting too much emphasis on numbers accumulated during a time when the top performing goalies in the league included John Casey, Kari Takko, Mike Vernon, and Steve Weekes, who were posting save percentages of 0.900, 0.899, 0.897, and 0.893 respectively at the top of the stats tables. Even Roy, the league leader, only managed 0.908.

Adjusted for league scoring, that season still holds up against Fedorov's big season of 120 points, but I watched both seasons, and know there was a difference in goaltending by '93/94, when guys like Hasek, Beezer, Roy, Brodeur, and Joseph all posted save percentages between 0.930 and 0.911. Yzerman noticed, too, and never topped 100 points again after the league scoring craziness of '92/93, despite not facing his serious knee problems for nearly another decade.
Yzerman scored 82 point in 58 games that year (pace for 119) and 95 points two year later (with a Selke nom). Scoring had diminihed, and Yzerman's role had changed, but he was definitely still an effective scorer (see his top ten finish in 2000). Also, his first serious knee injury wa in the 64th game of the 1987-88 season, when he was driving full-speed at the net with the puck and a defenseman basically rodeo-ed him into going knee-first into the goal post.


Quote:
Literally the only thing that Forsberg was better at "offensively" than Fedorov was using his linemates. Fedorov was the better skater, the better shooter, and just as comfortable with the puck on his stick. Maybe a bit more imagination/creativity when it came to things like penalty shots, I suppose. Forsberg played a more physical style of initiating lots of contact which was no doubt entertaining to watch, but realize that even in Forsberg's best seasons (be it his 116 points in '95/96, or his 106 in '02/03), Fedorov was scoring ~10 more goals than him, and playing that style was part of Forsberg's "downfall" in the end, kind of like Lindros. Even playing that style, Forsberg was unable to get himself into nearly as many good scoring opportunities as Fedorov.

As such, there's only so much credit you can really give Forsberg for "what could have been" when it's realized that his career value doesn't quite stack up to Fedorov's, and efforts must be made to boost the profile of his prime. Double the goals on slightly over double the number of shots over these guys' careers, and Fedorov ends up with the extra Cup ring as well. That's just part of what I'd consider a strong case for Fedorov vs. Forsberg.
You forget the fact that Forsberg had better linemates to begin with. Fedorov's best linemate was Kozlov. Forsberg had assemblages of Hejduk, Drury, Tanguay, Deadmarsh, and at one point he even played LW for Sakic.

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Old
11-12-2012, 10:59 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Oh, no mistake, props to Yzerman for that 155 point season, and there's no ignoring that which I watched for myself. Only thing is, I have trouble putting too much emphasis on numbers accumulated during a time when the top performing goalies in the league included John Casey, Kari Takko, Mike Vernon, and Steve Weekes, who were posting save percentages of 0.900, 0.899, 0.897, and 0.893 respectively at the top of the stats tables. Even Roy, the league leader, only managed 0.908.
So I guess all Hugh scoring players in that era should be penalized? It was a High scoring season no doubt but Yzerman was insanely good that year. He finished third in scoring only to Lemiuex and Gretzky. Despite Lemiuex scoring 199 points, Yzerman still won the Pearson. He wasn't just some average scorer who benefited from the high scoring he dominated on a level just slightly below a prime Mario Lemieux and Gretzky.
Quote:
Adjusted for league scoring, that season still holds up against Fedorov's big season of 120 points, but I watched both seasons, and know there was a difference in goaltending by '93/94, when guys like Hasek, Beezer, Roy, Brodeur, and Joseph all posted save percentages between 0.930 and 0.911. Yzerman noticed, too, and never topped 100 points again after the league scoring craziness of '92/93, despite not facing his serious knee problems for nearly another decade.
as has been shown this is false. He had injuries prior to the time your referencing. I think Yzermans decline in scoring had more to due with injures, focusing more on defense and the fact that he was just getting older. He still managed a top ten scoring finish and Selke win in 2000 despite being in his mid 30s. Very similar to Fedorovs 1996 season which is regarded by Fedorovs fans (maybe not you in particular) as an elite season.
Quote:
Ever wonder if Steve Yzerman joined a team captained by Fedorov in Russia, would he ever have established the same reputation as a leader that he enjoys in the NHL? I doubt it, and I certainly don't hold that against Fedorov considering how well his production (regular, and particularly post season) holds up against Yzerman's. Similarly, no one really blames rare offensive talents for coming up short in accumulation races against guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, etc.
Im not sure what your point is. Many European players have come over and excelled despite having an established leader already there. Bure, Mogilny, Lidstrom, etc. I'm not really sure what your point is. Fedorov only once really lost an award to Lemiuex or Gretzky. Having only one other top ten scoring finish in his career certainly can't be blamed on playing in the same era as two greats.
Quote:
Yzerman was always my favourite of the two because he was "the leader" (of course), and because of how he always seemed to bounce back from injury (broken collarbone a few seasons before his "big one", his back problems that left Fedorov carrying the team for stretches in the early/mid-90s, the knee injury, etc), but I have never seen any great divide in their "calibre" or skills, and I watched '88/89 passionately - and then disappointedly - as a Habs fan and hockey player back in junior high.
Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree then because I just don't see an argument for Fedorov to be relatively near Yzerman on an all time list.

Quote:
Literally the only thing that Forsberg was better at "offensively" than Fedorov was using his linemates. Fedorov was the better skater, the better shooter, and just as comfortable with the puck on his stick. Maybe a bit more imagination/creativity when it came to things like penalty shots, I suppose. Forsberg played a more physical style of initiating lots of contact which was no doubt entertaining to watch, but realize that even in Forsberg's best seasons (be it his 116 points in '95/96, or his 106 in '02/03), Fedorov was scoring ~10 more goals than him, and playing that style was part of Forsberg's "downfall" in the end, kind of like Lindros. Even playing that style, Forsberg was unable to get himself into nearly as many good scoring opportunities as Fedorov.
Sounds like your punishing Forsberg for being such a great passer. So what if Fedorov scored more goals? Does being a slightly better goal scorer really balance out the larger advantage in playmaking? I don't think so personally. Forsberg was the one finishing higher in scoring races and having better point totals in the same era. I've already said Fedorov had the best season of the two in 94. But Forsberg had several other elite seasons offensively where Fedorov really didn't. Also how do you explain Forsberg having better goals per game averages in the playoffs where Fedorov played his best hockey?
Quote:
As such, there's only so much credit you can really give Forsberg for "what could have been" when it's realized that his career value doesn't quite stack up to Fedorov's, and efforts must be made to boost the profile of his prime. Double the goals on slightly over double the number of shots over these guys' careers, and Fedorov ends up with the extra Cup ring as well. That's just part of what I'd consider a strong case for Fedorov vs. Forsberg.
Forsbergs injuries due hurt his career value no doubt. Bu lets not act like Fedorov was playing elite hockey for a long time. As has been stated, Fedorov had a short prime where Forsbergs was much longer and better despite the injuries. I'm note sure what you mean with the double the goals, shots comment so I don't want to comment on that.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:21 AM
  #310
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For the record Yzerman suffered his first knee injury in the 80's. He still put up big numbers afterwards but it was that initial injury that would eventually cause all the scar tissue damage and the bone on bone grinding later in his career. He played most of the rest of his career from that point on not 100%. In 93-94 he suffered a back injury. That is where you really see the slowing down in production. You can point to goalies, but he has said the back which he thought the knee contributed to hurt some of his offensive abilities. He then tailored his game to more of a defensive role and won a Selke.

Make no mistake he played a significant portion of his career pretty dinged up. A lot of hockey players do, but the extra gear he had really went away with the back and knee combo.

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11-13-2012, 02:29 AM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
So I guess all Hugh scoring players in that era should be penalized? It was a High scoring season no doubt but Yzerman was insanely good that year. He finished third in scoring only to Lemiuex and Gretzky. Despite Lemiuex scoring 199 points, Yzerman still won the Pearson. He wasn't just some average scorer who benefited from the high scoring he dominated on a level just slightly below a prime Mario Lemieux and Gretzky.
Well, yeah. That's kind of how adjusted stats work. But hold on a second, I already said that Yzerman's big season still holds up after adjustment. Let's also take a balanced view here. Yzerman certainly deserves credit for being the highest scoring playing once behind only Gretzky and Lemieux, but are we seriously not giving credit to Fedorov for basically doing the same thing (finishing second to Gretzky in scoring) - keeping in mind that he outscored a decent list of players in doing so? Prime Oates, prime Gilmour, prime Roenick, prime Bure... all finished behind Gretzky and Fedorov. Are those names not at least comparable to the guys Yzerman outscored that year (Bernie Nicholls, Rob Brown, Paul Coffey, Joe Mullen, Kurri, etc)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
as has been shown this is false. He had injuries prior to the time your referencing. I think Yzermans decline in scoring had more to due with injures, focusing more on defense and the fact that he was just getting older. He still managed a top ten scoring finish and Selke win in 2000 despite being in his mid 30s. Very similar to Fedorovs 1996 season which is regarded by Fedorovs fans (maybe not you in particular) as an elite season.
Listen, I've never made much of a big deal about his first knee injury, because he came back and had his career season after that. Now, as redwings19405 points out, that was the source of the scar tissue, so it's certainly something that should be considered.

Regarding the Selke specifically, though, it's basically a wash if we're comparing who the "better player" was. If we're talking about career value, then yeah, that's where the years add up in Yzerman's favour. It does bear reminding, though, that Fedorov (like Forsberg, to his credit) played that kind of defense pretty much from the time he entered the league, whereas Yzerman is given credit for transitioning to that kind of accountable play and maintaining productivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Im not sure what your point is. Many European players have come over and excelled despite having an established leader already there. Bure, Mogilny, Lidstrom, etc. I'm not really sure what your point is. Fedorov only once really lost an award to Lemiuex or Gretzky. Having only one other top ten scoring finish in his career certainly can't be blamed on playing in the same era as two greats.
The point is, if someone says "Yzerman was the leader of the Red Wings all those years" as if a) Fedorov was in no way a leader and b) it was his "fault" for never usurping Yzerman's captaincy at any time after joining the Red Wings, well... hence my comparison to the flip side.

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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree then because I just don't see an argument for Fedorov to be relatively near Yzerman on an all time list.
Just to remind you, I had Yzerman and Sakic higher than these other two guys in terms of career value/"all-time" ranking. That you don't find it close, especially considering Fedorov's trump card of having furthermore transitioned into an effective and productive defenseman by the end of his career... I dunno. Pretty special talent, really.


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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Sounds like your punishing Forsberg for being such a great passer. So what if Fedorov scored more goals? Does being a slightly better goal scorer really balance out the larger advantage in playmaking? I don't think so personally. Forsberg was the one finishing higher in scoring races and having better point totals in the same era.
Oh definitely, fair enough. If points are what one prioritizes, the strongest argument supports Forsberg as the better offensive player. If one prioritizes goal scoring as a measure of offensive ability, though, are you saying they're wrong for pointing to Fedorov's history of consistently out-scoring Forsberg? We don't have to weigh them the same, as long as we agree that it's completely subjective.

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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I've already said Fedorov had the best season of the two in 94. But Forsberg had several other elite seasons offensively where Fedorov really didn't. Also how do you explain Forsberg having better goals per game averages in the playoffs where Fedorov played his best hockey?
Forsbergs injuries due hurt his career value no doubt. Bu lets not act like Fedorov was playing elite hockey for a long time. As has been stated, Fedorov had a short prime where Forsbergs was much longer and better despite the injuries. I'm note sure what you mean with the double the goals, shots comment so I don't want to comment on that.
Woah, Fedorov wasn't "elite for a long time"? Do I necessarily have to subscribe to your definition of "elite" and "long time"? I really don't see how Fedorov doesn't have plenty of impressive seasons to stack up against Forsberg's aggregate measure.

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11-13-2012, 09:26 AM
  #312
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http://www.nhl.com/intheslot/read/in...orov/time.html

I understand that Fedorov is not an elite offensive machine but in my mind the guy is still a top 10-15 of his generation. His stats are tough to read since many times he was put on defense in a game and many more times he was asked to shadow a player the entire game or play as a 3rd defensemen.

After problems in Detroit he was forced to move around and then age and injuries got the best of him. But too me that overrall responsibility and reliability makes him one of the best players to mee.


Jagr was never asked to play defense. Heck in 4 years of playing with the Rangers that I watched him, I only saw him check like 4 guys lol.

Forsberg was also a machine on both ends but it was different. Forsberg was a smarter defensive player, but forsberg was a more offensive dominant player


Federov to me can fit in the top 50 of all time, maybe even top 25.

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11-13-2012, 04:15 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, yeah. That's kind of how adjusted stats work. But hold on a second, I already said that Yzerman's big season still holds up after adjustment. Let's also take a balanced view here. Yzerman certainly deserves credit for being the highest scoring playing once behind only Gretzky and Lemieux, but are we seriously not giving credit to Fedorov for basically doing the same thing (finishing second to Gretzky in scoring) - keeping in mind that he outscored a decent list of players in doing so? Prime Oates, prime Gilmour, prime Roenick, prime Bure... all finished behind Gretzky and Fedorov. Are those names not at least comparable to the guys Yzerman outscored that year (Bernie Nicholls, Rob Brown, Paul Coffey, Joe Mullen, Kurri, etc)?
I've already given Fedorov full credit for his 1994 season. The reason I bring up Yzermans 1989 season is you compared what Yzerman and Fedorov did in the time Theey played together. I simply said you can't ignore that Yzermans best season was before that.
Quote:
Listen, I've never made much of a big deal about his first knee injury, because he came back and had his career season after that. Now, as redwings19405 points out, that was the source of the scar tissue, so it's certainly something that should be considered.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Regarding the Selke specifically, though, it's basically a wash if we're comparing who the "better player" was. If we're talking about career value, then yeah, that's where the years add up in Yzerman's favour. It does bear reminding, though, that Fedorov (like Forsberg, to his credit) played that kind of defense pretty much from the time he entered the league, whereas Yzerman is given credit for transitioning to that kind of accountable play and maintaining productivity.
Good point. However his 2000 season was as good as Fedorovs second best season IMO. Even past his offensive prime Yzerman had an roughly equal season to Fedorov in his prime. That's where longevity comes into plays

Quote:
The point is, if someone says "Yzerman was the leader of the Red Wings all those years" as if a) Fedorov was in no way a leader and b) it was his "fault" for never usurping Yzerman's captaincy at any time after joining the Red Wings, well... hence my comparison to the flip side.
he didn't need to take over the captaincy to become the "leader" of the team. He just wasn't better than Yzerman in the time they played together despite yzerman having his best seasons before that time period.



Quote:
Just to remind you, I had Yzerman and Sakic higher than these other two guys in terms of career value/"all-time" ranking. That you don't find it close, especially considering Fedorov's trump card of having furthermore transitioned into an effective and productive defenseman by the end of his career... I dunno. Pretty special talent, really.
Fedorov was used on defense at times becase he wasn't producing on offense. I don't think Sakic or Yzerman shoulda get punished for consistently producing on offense. Mathieu Dandenault played both positions a well.

Quote:
Oh definitely, fair enough. If points are what one prioritizes, the strongest argument supports Forsberg as the better offensive player. If one prioritizes goal scoring as a measure of offensive ability, though, are you saying they're wrong for pointing to Fedorov's history of consistently out-scoring Forsberg? We don't have to weigh them the same, as long as we agree that it's completely subjective.
I guess that's a fair point. But does tht make Jari Kurri better than Gretzky offensively in the years he scored more goals? Was Scott Hartnell better than Claude Giroux last year? Placing such a high value on goals completely ignores the pher half of offense. Why should playmakers be punished? If that's your opinion then I can't change that but it just seems like a close minded view.
Quote:
Woah, Fedorov wasn't "elite for a long time"? Do I necessarily have to subscribe to your definition of "elite" and "long time"? I really don't see how Fedorov doesn't have plenty of impressive seasons to stack up against Forsberg's aggregate measure.
No Fedorov wasn't elite for a long time. I doubt you can back that up. Forsberg had better seasons than Fedorov did for a longer time. Fedorov played longer but he was far from an elite player for quite some time.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:50 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Career Playoff PPG:
Jagr 1.050, 25th all-time
Fedorov 0.962, 44th all-time
(Yzerman 0.944, 52nd all-time)

0.106 PPG separates 25th from 52nd overall.
lol?
That's still 9 points per 82 games and who knows what hr's gp cut off was.

Also, for all of this harping on Fedorov's goals during the regular season and "legendary postseasons"... his playoff gpg was quite low.

J. Jagr = 39th = 0.433 = 36 goals / 82 gp
Forsberg = 46th = 0.424 = 35 goals / 82 gp
Fedorov = 176th = 0.284 = 23 goals / 82 gp


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Literally the only thing that Forsberg was better at "offensively" than Fedorov was using his linemates.
Forsberg was a heck of lot more consistent than Fedorov too. You forgot that one and it was a huge one to forget considering the g-i-g-a-n-t-i-c discrepancy between these two players in that respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
As such, there's only so much credit you can really give Forsberg for "what could have been" when it's realized that his career value doesn't quite stack up to Fedorov's, and efforts must be made to boost the profile of his prime.
What could have been?
Between 1995-2003:
- he was 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 12th and 17th in scoring
- he was 1st, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 6th in PPG.
- he finished 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 11th for the Selke.

He blew away Fedorov's best seasons because he was consistent.

What was the "credit" or projection that we was supposed to be making us overrate Forsberg? ... The fact that we believe that he could have easily faded away into obscurity for the better part of the last 12 years of his career the way that Fedorov did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Just to remind you, I had Yzerman and Sakic higher than these other two guys in terms of career value/"all-time" ranking. That you don't find it close, especially considering Fedorov's trump card of having furthermore transitioned into an effective and productive defenseman by the end of his career... I dunno. Pretty special talent, really.
Really? It sounds pretty trivial to me that he occasionally played as a defenseman. That hardly seems like a "trump card" against players who had much better and more consistent careers than he did because he didn't take that to any impressive heights. It's not like he won the Golden Glove at catcher, second base and center field. Nope, he just played forward and defense... just like many mediocre players have through league history.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
If one prioritizes goal scoring as a measure of offensive ability, though, are you saying they're wrong for pointing to Fedorov's history of consistently out-scoring Forsberg? We don't have to weigh them the same, as long as we agree that it's completely subjective.
Fedorov finished 3rd, 14th, 18th, 19th and 25th in goals in his best seasons, because he he wasn't an elite goalscorer (or point producer).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Woah, Fedorov wasn't "elite for a long time"? Do I necessarily have to subscribe to your definition of "elite" and "long time"? I really don't see how Fedorov doesn't have plenty of impressive seasons to stack up against Forsberg's aggregate measure.
He wasn't elite for a long time. He had a decent start to his career, a very short peak and then (for the most part) faded away for the last 12 years of his career.

Without his 1994 season, he's Rod Brind'amour on a better team throughout the rest of his 17 seasons.

FedorovPts RkG RkSelke
19912829 
199222382
199336484
1994231
199516264
199610191
199744299
1998xxx
19993144 
20004632 
20014834 
200228258
200312148
20042818 
2006xxx
2007xxx
2008xxx
2009xxx


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I understand that Fedorov is not an elite offensive machine but in my mind the guy is still a top 10-15 of his generation. His stats are tough to read since many times he was put on defense in a game and many more times he was asked to shadow a player the entire game or play as a 3rd defensemen.
He was put on defense "many times" or rarely/infrequently/enough to be interesting, but not enough to matter?

Many other players put up better offensive numbers in the past 25-30 years than Fedorov did. Start with anybody who finished in the top-10 in goals or points more than 3 times total for both categories throughout their entire careers.

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11-14-2012, 04:35 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Stansfield View Post
Best on best for Fedorov, Sakic, Jagr and Forsberg

Fedorov
GP-26 G-8 A-16 PTS-24 PPG-0.92308

Sakic
GP-30 G-12 A-11 PTS-23 PPG-0.76667

Jagr
GP-36 G-10 A-14 PTS-24 PPG-0.66667

Forsberg
GP-31 G-5 A-23 PTS-28 PPG-0.90323

Such large sample sizes! Certainly 123 games of best on best is a far better tool to evaluate these four players than 4680 NHL regular season games, and 686 NHL playoff games.
Looks like you used the 1991 Canada Cup in Fedorov's samples. Not every Canada Cup was a best-on-best tournament, just like not every Olympics was a best-on-best torunament (eg. the 94 Olympics where most NHLers sat out). The 1991 Canada Cup was not best-on-best as the teams from the Czech Rep and especially the USSR did not have most of their best players available.

That puts Fedorov at:

GP-21 G-6 A-14 PTS-20 PPG-0.95238

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11-14-2012, 11:21 AM
  #316
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This, 'OMG! He played defense' nonsense is gettting crazy overblown.

Fedorov MAYBE played 500 minutes as a defenseman. Maybe.

You know who Scotty Bowman actually did trust to pivot on a consistent basis between forward and defense? Mathieu Dandenault.

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11-14-2012, 12:02 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
he didn't need to take over the captaincy to become the "leader" of the team. He just wasn't better than Yzerman in the time they played together despite yzerman having his best seasons before that time period.
Well, we know this isn't true; '93/94 Pearson for most outstanding player in the league, says hi. Had an even higher PPG rate over an entire 82 game schedule than Yzerman's torrid pace over the 50+ games he played that year. So there's one season in the bank. Fedorov was also better than him during the lockout shortened '94/95 season that followed. Yzerman actually played more games than Fedorov, but was outscored by Fedorov (who tied Hull, Forsberg, and Nieuwendyk) AND Primeau. And even '95/96 isn't clear-cut in Yzerman's favour. Fedorov led the team in scoring, and while both guys ended the post season with 20 points, Yzerman got more than half (11) of those against St. Louis, while Fedorov's 9 points in the Conference Final weren't enough to beat Sakic and Roy. Would Yzerman have been better if he was healthier? Irrelevant.

So yeah, I dispute your claim that he was never better than Yzerman during their time together. There's hardware and production that, while not "decisive", allow more leeway to those who would argue that he was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
Fedorov was used on defense at times becase he wasn't producing on offense. I don't think Sakic or Yzerman shoulda get punished for consistently producing on offense. Mathieu Dandenault played both positions a well.
Source? Guess what, you're talking out of your ass here. He was first tried at defense during the '95/96 season (his second most productive season ever), and again during the '96/97 playoffs (tied with 2 other post seasons as his second most productive ever, with 20 points), and Red Wings GM Devellano reflected that if they left him there, he was sure Fedorov would have won a Norris (first source among many). Such things were never said about Dandenault, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
I guess that's a fair point. But does tht make Jari Kurri better than Gretzky offensively in the years he scored more goals? Was Scott Hartnell better than Claude Giroux last year? Placing such a high value on goals completely ignores the pher half of offense. Why should playmakers be punished? If that's your opinion then I can't change that but it just seems like a close minded view.
Listen, I don't think it was me who claimed that one was better offensively than the other. Obviously you prefer points, otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant about Forsberg being the better offensive player. I showed you that there's a flip side where goal scorers are valued for a reason, and that it's ultimately subjective. Who is closed-minded again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
No Fedorov wasn't elite for a long time. I doubt you can back that up. Forsberg had better seasons than Fedorov did for a longer time. Fedorov played longer but he was far from an elite player for quite some time.
I don't really have to "back it up", although I (and others) have laid a little bit too much down in this thread for even a guy with a username like "KingForsberg" to ignore. It has already been done for me by droves of hockey writers, reporters, historians, fans, players, coaches, and general managers ever since he joined the NHL.

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11-14-2012, 12:18 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
(Too much lol to keep as clutter)
1) I'm willing to sit down and read whatever you can put together in terms of a consistency argument for Forsberg. I can't wait to see just how "gigantic" the divide is between them in this regard.

2) How biased do you have to be to describe Fedorov as having 12 seasons where he was lost in obscurity? How about this as one of his final acts in the NHL:

Fedorov became the oldest player to score a game-winning goal in a Game 7 (39 years, 136 days). It was his third goal in a Game 7 and the 12th playoff game-winner of his career.

"He's our leader," said Ovechkin, who was on the ice for the winning goal. "He's our best guy in the locker room. He showed it. He's our best guy. He has more experience than anybody in this locker room. He knows how to play like that. He just shows his leadership."

"He's got quite a shot," said Capitals coach Bruce Boudreau. "When he has the chance to get that thing off he can shoot it, and he did tonight. Experience sometimes pays off and he knew what he had to and when to do it. That's what makes him one of the greatest players ever.
" (source)

3) "Trivial" that he "occasionally" played as a defenseman, as "many mediocre players have done in the past"? Hahaha, wow dude, hate harder (if you can). But wait, it "sounds" trivial to you? Well, having actually watched it, it was less than trivial, but I guess you'll just have to take my (and Devellano's, and Bowman's, and many others') word for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
You know who Scotty Bowman actually did trust to pivot on a consistent basis between forward and defense? Mathieu Dandenault.
You know who Bowman probably wishes he was never forced to use on either forward or defense? Mathieu Dandenault.

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11-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
1) I'm willing to sit down and read whatever you can put together in terms of a consistency argument for Forsberg. I can't wait to see just how "gigantic" the divide is between them in this regard.
No you're not. I've read your posts all thread and there is no other 'truth' than Fedorov was elite throughout his entire career and is one of the very best to have ever played the game.

In Forsberg's first 9 seasons;
- he finished top-20 in scoring 7 times and top-10 x 5 times.
- he finished top-6 in ppg 7 times.
- he finished top-11 for the Selke 5 times.

After Fedorov's short peak of elite offensive play during the same 3 full seasons that Coffey was on the team, he couldn't crack the top-25 in any offensive category for 6 years in the regular season. He was 26-31 years old, he should have been in his prime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
2) How biased do you have to be to describe Fedorov as having 12 seasons where he was lost in obscurity? How about this as one of his final acts in the NHL:

Fedorov became the oldest player to score a game-winning goal in a Game 7 (39 years, 136 days). It was his third goal in a Game 7 and the 12th playoff game-winner of his career.

"He's our leader," said Ovechkin, who was on the ice for the winning goal. "He's our best guy in the locker room. He showed it. He's our best guy. He has more experience than anybody in this locker room. He knows how to play like that. He just shows his leadership."

"He's got quite a shot," said Capitals coach Bruce Boudreau. "When he has the chance to get that thing off he can shoot it, and he did tonight. Experience sometimes pays off and he knew what he had to and when to do it. That's what makes him one of the greatest players ever.
" (source)
Your proof that he was an elite player in his last 12 seasons was that the 1 goal he scored in 14 playoff games (after an 11 goal regular season) was an overtime winner in a Game 7?

Wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
3) "Trivial" that he "occasionally" played as a defenseman, as "many mediocre players have done in the past"? Hahaha, wow dude, hate harder (if you can). But wait, it "sounds" trivial to you? Well, having actually watched it, it was less than trivial, but I guess you'll just have to take my (and Devellano's, and Bowman's, and many others') word for it.
Carkner, Campoli, Lee, Schubert, Norton and Phillips played both forward and defense for Ottawa over the past 15 years alone. Not to mention that Alfredsson led the team to 1st, 2nd and 4th overall PP finishes as the full time PPQB (IIRC, the team has never finished above 9th or 10th otherwise). He would have been 31st, 22nd and 18th in scoring as a D-man based on his PP points alone in those seasons.

Now multiply stories like that by another 28 teams and dozens of other players.

Yes, trivial!

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11-14-2012, 01:51 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
This, 'OMG! He played defense' nonsense is gettting crazy overblown.

Fedorov MAYBE played 500 minutes as a defenseman. Maybe.

You know who Scotty Bowman actually did trust to pivot on a consistent basis between forward and defense? Mathieu Dandenault.
Dandenault was moved to defense because he had a ton of speed and wasn't good enough to crack the scoring lines, but wouldn't have fit in the bottom six. The Wings needed speed on the blueline at the time; aside from Lidstrom and Eriksson (who was traded at the end of the season), the only defenseman with any speed at the time was Yan Golubovsky. Jiri Fischer (faster than Dandenault) would play his rookie year the next season, but that doesn't help at the time.

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11-14-2012, 02:07 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
No you're not. I've read your posts all thread and there is no other 'truth' than Fedorov was elite throughout his entire career and is one of the very best to have ever played the game.

In Forsberg's first 9 seasons;
- he finished top-20 in scoring 7 times and top-10 x 5 times.
- he finished top-6 in ppg 7 times.
- he finished top-11 for the Selke 5 times.

After Fedorov's short peak of elite offensive play during the same 3 full seasons that Coffey was on the team, he couldn't crack the top-25 in any offensive category for 6 years in the regular season. He was 26-31 years old, he should have been in his prime.
You know who else had significantly better offensive numbers playing with Paul Coffey than without him?

Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.

Lemieux scored 2 PPG six times in 17 seasons. Four of those came with Coffey. He played five seasons with Coffey; the only time he missed 2 PPG was when he played only 26 games and ended up with 45 points.

Gretzky was 7/8 with Coffey for 2 PPG. He did it 3 times without him, for a total of ten in twenty. That's 3/12 without Coffey after 7/7 with him in Edmonton, and one year in LA where they both played about half the year, Gretzky was injured, and Coffey was traded to make the 7/8.

Fedorov is hardly the only high-end player to produce more points with Paul Coffey than without him. Yet you act as if Fedorov is some second-line center who had his numbers grossly inflated.

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11-14-2012, 02:24 PM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
That's still 9 points per 82 games and who knows what hr's gp cut off was.

Also, for all of this harping on Fedorov's goals during the regular season and "legendary postseasons"... his playoff gpg was quite low.

J. Jagr = 39th = 0.433 = 36 goals / 82 gp
Forsberg = 46th = 0.424 = 35 goals / 82 gp
Fedorov = 176th = 0.284 = 23 goals / 82 gp
I think the points about Fedorov scoring goals was separate from the playoff scoring point. It wasn't "look at all of the goals Fedorov scored in the playoffs!"

Quote:
Forsberg was a heck of lot more consistent than Fedorov too. You forgot that one and it was a huge one to forget considering the g-i-g-a-n-t-i-c discrepancy between these two players in that respect.
This is completely not true. Fedorov was very consistent. The "Fedorov isn't consistent/isn't trying/etc." stuff came from people who expected him to be posting 110+ points every season. Forsberg, OTOH, put thoe numbers up, but he might do it by going several games without a point followed by 15 points in four games. Assuming he even played.

Quote:
What could have been?
Between 1995-2003:
- he was 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 12th and 17th in scoring
- he was 1st, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 6th in PPG.
- he finished 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 11th for the Selke.

He blew away Fedorov's best seasons because he was consistent.

What was the "credit" or projection that we was supposed to be making us overrate Forsberg? ... The fact that we believe that he could have easily faded away into obscurity for the better part of the last 12 years of his career the way that Fedorov did?
You seem to only care about scoring. Fedorov was a better player, on the ice, overall, than Forsberg. More likely to help your team win. And winning Cups, not scoring titles, is the goal.

Quote:
Fedorov finished 3rd, 14th, 18th, 19th and 25th in goals in his best seasons, because he he wasn't an elite goalscorer (or point producer).
Fedorov had the talent, but he played defensively. If you had ever actually WATCHED him you would know that. But you have made it quite clear that your opinions are entirely driven by the stat sheet.

Quote:
Without his 1994 season, he's Rod Brind'amour on a better team throughout the rest of his 17 seasons.

FedorovPts RkG RkSelke
19912829 
199222382
199336484
1994231
199516264
199610191
199744299
1998xxx
19993144 
20004632 
20014834 
200228258
200312148
20042818 
2006xxx
2007xxx
2008xxx
2009xxx
Fedorov's career, even if you remove his best year, is still better than Brind'Amour's career by a fair amount. If you take away Fedorov's top TWO years you might be closer.

Not to mention Fedorov never won a "reputation" Selke while Brind'Amour won two. In reality Brind'Amour was never the best defensive forward in the league.

Quote:
He was put on defense "many times" or rarely/infrequently/enough to be interesting, but not enough to matter?

Many other players put up better offensive numbers in the past 25-30 years than Fedorov did. Start with anybody who finished in the top-10 in goals or points more than 3 times total for both categories throughout their entire careers.
Fedorov finished 8th in points during his NHL career. You are making a big deal about rankings. Why didn't more players outscore him during that time period if he was so mediocre offensively?

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11-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
No you're not. I've read your posts all thread and there is no other 'truth' than Fedorov was elite throughout his entire career and is one of the very best to have ever played the game.

In Forsberg's first 9 seasons;
- he finished top-20 in scoring 7 times and top-10 x 5 times.
- he finished top-6 in ppg 7 times.
- he finished top-11 for the Selke 5 times.
Wow, look at you slide goal posts to shoehorn Forsberg into a top 6, and a top 11... in order to disprove the consistency of Fedorov... ? Good job, lol.

But back up. I never said he was "elite" for his entire career, and I've provided quotes, not opinion, highlighting him as one of the best players ever. You're going to have to do better, and my expectations are low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
After Fedorov's short peak of elite offensive play during the same 3 full seasons that Coffey was on the team, he couldn't crack the top-25 in any offensive category for 6 years in the regular season. He was 26-31 years old, he should have been in his prime.
'91/92: Runner up to Carboneau for the Selke. ("elite" defense)
'92/93: 4th in Selke ("elite" defense)
'93/94: Hart and Selke win ("elite" everything)
'94/95: 4th in Selke ("elite" defense) (affected in other voting by each conference submitting 3 finalists, even if the 4th from one conference may have "deserved" consideration more than the 3rd from the other)
'95/96: 5th in Hart + Selke win ("elite" everything), and votes for the post season all-star teams in all 3 forward positions.
'96/97: 9th in Selke

Now true, there's a holdout year, followed by two "lackluster" seasons in which he was "only" a 30 goal threat. But then guess what?

'00/01: Hart, Selke, Lady Byng, and post-season all-star votes.
'01/02: Selke votes
'02/03: Hart, Selke, Lady Byng, and post-season all-star votes
'03/04: Selke and post-season all-star votes.

He basically appeared in award voting for his entire career leading up to the '04/05 lockout, after which:

'06/07: Selke votes
'07/08: Selke votes
'08/09: Last season of his career.

So what's that, 4 seasons out of his 18 year career that he failed to receive post season award recognition? Put another way, he received award/all-star recognition in 14 of his 18 seasons. Build me a list of those who can make similar claims, and let's see how big it gets. And let's not forget, this is the same guy who is top 10 in scoring for the entire period spanned by his career ('90/91 -> '08/09), and has more playoff points in a Red Wings jersey than Steve Yzerman since he first appeared for them in '90/91, so we're not leaning on the defense side of the Selke for our definition of elite, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Your proof that he was an elite player in his last 12 seasons was that the 1 goal he scored in 14 playoff games (after an 11 goal regular season) was an overtime winner in a Game 7?

Wow!

Carkner, Campoli, Lee, Schubert, Norton and Phillips played both forward and defense for Ottawa over the past 15 years alone. Not to mention that Alfredsson led the team to 1st, 2nd and 4th overall PP finishes as the full time PPQB (IIRC, the team has never finished above 9th or 10th otherwise). He would have been 31st, 22nd and 18th in scoring as a D-man based on his PP points alone in those seasons.

Now multiply stories like that by another 28 teams and dozens of other players.

Yes, trivial!
Surely, surely, you can do better than this. :

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11-14-2012, 05:29 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, we know this isn't true; '93/94 Pearson for most outstanding player in the league, says hi. Had an even higher PPG rate over an entire 82 game schedule than Yzerman's torrid pace over the 50+ games he played that year. So there's one season in the bank. Fedorov was also better than him during the lockout shortened '94/95 season that followed. Yzerman actually played more games than Fedorov, but was outscored by Fedorov (who tied Hull, Forsberg, and Nieuwendyk) AND Primeau. And even '95/96 isn't clear-cut in Yzerman's favour. Fedorov led the team in scoring, and while both guys ended the post season with 20 points, Yzerman got more than half (11) of those against St. Louis, while Fedorov's 9 points in the Conference Final weren't enough to beat Sakic and Roy. Would Yzerman have been better if he was healthier? Irrelevant.
So yeah, I dispute your claim that he was never better than Yzerman during their time together. There's hardware and production that, while not "decisive", allow more leeway to those who would argue that he was.
m still not quite sure what your point is. You asked me to imagine Yzerman going to Russia to play with Fedorov and if I think he would be a leader still. I said yes he would because he was a better leader than Fedorov and a better player. Fedorov may have been slightly better than Yzerman at times when they were together but that could be because Yzerman had already had his best seasons while Fedorov was in his prime.
Quote:
Source? Guess what, you're talking out of your ass here. He was first tried at defense during the '95/96 season (his second most productive season ever), and again during the '96/97 playoffs (tied with 2 other post seasons as his second most productive ever, with 20 points), and Red Wings GM Devellano reflected that if they left him there, he was sure Fedorov would have won a Norris (first source among many). Such things were never said about Dandenault, lol.
Why would you move your "elite" forward who is having his second best season to a defensive position? So one person said Fedorov could win a Norris. We've seen many GMs say things that aren't true. Dandenault was just one of many payers to play forward and defense. My point is that Fedorov didn't revolutionize the idea and wasn't some pioneer.


Quote:
Listen, I don't think it was me who claimed that one was better offensively than the other. Obviously you prefer points, otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant about Forsberg being the better offensive player. I showed you that there's a flip side where goal scorers are valued for a reason, and that it's ultimately subjective. Who is closed-minded again?
You're right you didn't claim that. I asked you a question which you refuse to answer. Was Scott Hartnell better than Claude Giroux on offense last year? Or answer this. Was Kurri better than Gretzky in the seasons he scored more goals? I prefer points because it accounts for both sides of offense. Why do you not value assists as much as goals? If you just look at goals it completely ignores the other half of offense. Why should playmakers be punished? It's ultimately subjective but it looks like your just choosing that few to make Fedorov look better on offense than Forsberg which just isn't true.

Quote:
I don't really have to "back it up", although I (and others) have laid a little bit too much down in this thread for even a guy with a username like "KingForsberg" to ignore. It has already been done for me by droves of hockey writers, reporters, historians, fans, players, coaches, and general managers ever since he joined the NHL.
Now you try to insult me. How nice. Since you refuse to show me how Fedorov was elite for long time, at least tell me your definition of elite offense. If its top ten in goals or points Fedorov doesn't really have good numbers in either regard. So please show KingForsberg how Fedorov was ELITE for a LONG time. It should be easy if its already been said in the thread.


Last edited by King Forsberg: 11-14-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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11-14-2012, 06:15 PM
  #325
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Seriously 3-4 guys here who absolutely hate Fedorov and are misconstruing everyone's words and pulling crap from the air, ignoring the serious facts.

Fedorov beat Peter Forsberg, Joe Sakic, Eric Lindors, Jarimor Jagr, etc... In Canada/World Cup GPG and PPG and in the Olympics best play PPG, while playing as a Soviet Defensive forward.

Wayne Gretzky said he thought Feds was the "most talented player ever" and that he was a "Hell of a player" while playing defense.

2- Some stats:

(20-26 years old) - 212g,317a/432 games = (40g/60a) 100 points / 82 games

(27-34 years old) - 219g,271a/556 games = (32g/42a) 74 points / 82 games

Fedorov statistics each season over an 80-84 game average

1990-91 (32g,50a) 82 points/ 80 games
1991-92 (32g,54a) 86 points/ 80 games
1992-93 (39g,61a) 100 points/ 84 games
1993-94 (57g,63a) 123 points/ 84 games
1994-95 (40g,60a) 100 points/ 84 games
1995-96 (41g,72a) 113 points/ 82 games
1996-97 (33g,37a) 70 points/ 82 games
1997-98 - didn't calculate only played 20 games
1998-99 (28g,39a) 67 points/ 82 games
1999-00 (33g,42a) 75 points/ 82 games
2000-01 (35g,40a) 75 points/ 82 games
2001-02 (31g,38a) 69 points/ 82 games (defense)
2002-03 (37g,48a) 85 points/ 82 games
2003-04 (32g,35a) 67 points/ 82 games


Last edited by Stars23*: 11-14-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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