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Old
11-14-2012, 12:57 AM
  #1
Vankiller Whale
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Vancouver-Winnipeg

So, apparently Jason Garrison is only comfortable playing on the left side, according to Team 1040.

This leaves Vancouver with:

Hamhuis
Edler
Ballard
Alberts
Connauton(callup)

On the left side, and only

Bieksa
Tanev

On the right.

So, I have two possible solutions to help balance this out, let me know what you think of either.

Proposal one(minor):

To Vancouver: Nik Antropov and Paul Postma

The Canucks get a big 3C and a young RHD who looks ready to make a splash in the NHL

To Winnipeg: Keith Ballard and Jordan Schroeder

The Jets get a LHD who could use a change of scenery as he has been stuck behind depth and recovering from injuries these past two seasons, as well as our best centre prospect, as after Scheifele the Jets lack prospect depth at that position

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposal two(major):

To Vancouver: Dustin Byfuglien and Bryan Little

The Canucks add a playmaking RWer to play with Kesler, and add a big, RHD, proven playoff performer who makes us much harder to play against. He could be paired with Garrison to help cover for him defensively.

To Winnipeg: Alex Edler and Mason Raymond
The Jets get a very good LHD who would be dynamite paired with Bogosian. They downgrade a bit on wing, and get a player who's due for a bounceback season.

What do you guys think? Any minor tweaks needed? Are basic needs filled?

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:07 AM
  #2
Seatoo
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I would do the first deal, value seems fair for both sides, but not the second, Buf is overpayed and has weight/conditioning issues every year not even mentioning his legal issues.

Edit: Angry propellers though for thinking up something fresh!

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:24 AM
  #3
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To be honest I think you're worrying too much about the whole LD/RD thing. It would be irresponsible to trade someone away before they even get a chance to play together as a unit.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:24 AM
  #4
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Byflugien is going to cover somebody's defensive lapses? He's the big fat guy, right? If Byfluglien came to Vancouver it would be for Uncle Willy's rotisserie chicken. Or, he'd be a forward.

Agree Edler is the guy to move. If he were packaged with Luongo, he'd fetch more than a couple of Winnipeg players. That package might even become the youth movement the Canucks need to do.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Byflugien is going to cover somebody's defensive lapses? He's the big fat guy, right? If Byfluglien came to Vancouver it would be for Uncle Willy's rotisserie chicken. Or, he'd be a forward.
I meant Garrison would cover for Byfuglien, sorry if it wasn't clear.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:27 AM
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Highly doubt Winnipeg does the second deal.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:03 AM
  #7
thadd
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Highly doubt the Jets do either deal. Jets weakspot is their top six, so the first move is a big no no.

Then in the second move... man that just doesn't make sense either.

Some people might say that Edler and Buff are a wash, but Little>>>>>> Rayond.

Sometimes I wonder if people come on here making proposals which greatly favour their team hoping that the other fanbase would go for it and then thinking that it would make it possible.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:19 AM
  #8
Paradise
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I know this is going to seem like a surprise to Vancouver fans, but us Winnipeg fans don't really want to make a deal with your team. Time to move onto another team to try and unload your players to. We're content with the direction our team is taking.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:30 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I know this is going to seem like a surprise to Vancouver fans, but us Winnipeg fans don't really want to make a deal with your team. Time to move onto another team to try and unload your players to. We're content with the direction our team is taking.
I believe I recall your team's GM stating that he wasn't going to make any big earthshaking moves the minute that he showed up. I think I recall him stating that he was going to do everything he could to let the team develop from within.

So yeah, you should be content.

PS: Been a long time since we've seen a Bogosian proposal!

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:34 AM
  #10
Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
I believe I recall your team's GM stating that he wasn't going to make any big earthshaking moves the minute that he showed up. I think I recall him stating that he was going to do everything he could to let the team develop from within.

So yeah, you should be content.

PS: Been a long time since we've seen a Bogosian proposal!
You're correct. Our team will be built through the draft and development of our young core. Bogo is the most valuable asset we currently have in Winnipeg and won't be traded anytime soon

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:39 AM
  #11
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If Winnipeg wants Edler that badly, they'll wait for him to hit UFA status at the end of the year and sign him then. He loved his time in Winnipeg

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:39 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
You're correct. Our team will be built through the draft and development of our young core. Bogo is the most valuable asset we currently have in Winnipeg and won't be traded anytime soon
I know. I thought it was hilarious when his value went rock bottom. If his HF value had dropped any lower he would've been compared to Andy Sutton... and then Cam Barker... and then Oil fans technically could've offered Sutton, Hemsky and a second for Bogo and Kane in return.

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:40 AM
  #13
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Personally happy with what we're getting from Big BUFF and definitely have no real desire to swap out Little for Raymond. Edler's pending UFA status does not make him appealing at the cost of Byfuglien.

I don't mind Ballard, but I'm pretty sure that TNSE doesn't want his contract. If they really want to spend 4 million on a defenseman, they can wait until next off season and spend on the defenseman of their choice.

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:45 AM
  #14
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The first one is reasonable but I don't think it would happen.

While I don't necessarily understand it, the Jets see Antropov is a moderately valuable player going forward. Ponikarovsky was brought in, in no small measue due to his relationship with Antropov. Perhaps most importantly, the organization sees them as mentors for Burmistrov. Schroeder would be of interest to the Jets, but between Ballard's contract, lack of confidence, and the fact the Jets are more/less set on D, there isn't a good reason for the Jets to pull the trigger.

The second one is just a no go for the Jets.

Edler's contract status drastically reduces his value from the Jets point of view. Buff, for all his issues, seems to be one of the few guys that actually makes the Jets' offence work. Little may be a 2nd line winger to the Canucks, but last year he was the Jets 1st line center. Even with the addition of Jokinen they'll still need a lot of minutes out of Little on the 2nd line. He's a guy they really cannot afford to trade.

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Old
11-14-2012, 05:54 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Highly doubt the Jets do either deal. Jets weakspot is their top six, so the first move is a big no no.

Then in the second move... man that just doesn't make sense either.

Some people might say that Edler and Buff are a wash, but Little>>>>>> Rayond.

Sometimes I wonder if people come on here making proposals which greatly favour their team hoping that the other fanbase would go for it and then thinking that it would make it possible.
Nothing more to be said.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:04 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Highly doubt the Jets do either deal. Jets weakspot is their top six, so the first move is a big no no.

Then in the second move... man that just doesn't make sense either.

Some people might say that Edler and Buff are a wash, but Little>>>>>> Rayond.

Sometimes I wonder if people come on here making proposals which greatly favour their team hoping that the other fanbase would go for it and then thinking that it would make it possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
The first one is reasonable but I don't think it would happen.

While I don't necessarily understand it, the Jets see Antropov is a moderately valuable player going forward. Ponikarovsky was brought in, in no small measue due to his relationship with Antropov. Perhaps most importantly, the organization sees them as mentors for Burmistrov. Schroeder would be of interest to the Jets, but between Ballard's contract, lack of confidence, and the fact the Jets are more/less set on D, there isn't a good reason for the Jets to pull the trigger.

The second one is just a no go for the Jets.

Edler's contract status drastically reduces his value from the Jets point of view. Buff, for all his issues, seems to be one of the few guys that actually makes the Jets' offence work. Little may be a 2nd line winger to the Canucks, but last year he was the Jets 1st line center. Even with the addition of Jokinen they'll still need a lot of minutes out of Little on the 2nd line. He's a guy they really cannot afford to trade.
This in a nutshell. The first one would be a maybe. I'm not a fan of Ballard or his contract, so someone in the Jets org would have to think highly of both Ballard and Schroeder for that one to happen.

Huge no to the second. A signed Buff for soon to be UFA Edler doesn't happen, and Little is light years better than Raymond.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:07 AM
  #17
Vankiller Whale
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Hmm, well I guess both teams like the first one more, which is fair, as Van fans see it as losing Edler for Byfuglien, while Jets fans have no guarantee they can re-sign him.

As for the first one, are there any sweeteners we can throw in to make it more appealing to Jets fans?

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:09 AM
  #18
Grind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
So, apparently Jason Garrison is only comfortable playing on the left side, according to Team 1040.

This leaves Vancouver with:

Hamhuis
Edler
Ballard
Alberts
Connauton(callup)

On the left side, and only

Bieksa
Tanev

On the right.

So, I have two possible solutions to help balance this out, let me know what you think of either.

Proposal one(minor):

To Vancouver: Nik Antropov and Paul Postma

The Canucks get a big 3C and a young RHD who looks ready to make a splash in the NHL

To Winnipeg: Keith Ballard and Jordan Schroeder

The Jets get a LHD who could use a change of scenery as he has been stuck behind depth and recovering from injuries these past two seasons, as well as our best centre prospect, as after Scheifele the Jets lack prospect depth at that position

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposal two(major):

To Vancouver: Dustin Byfuglien and Bryan Little

The Canucks add a playmaking RWer to play with Kesler, and add a big, RHD, proven playoff performer who makes us much harder to play against. He could be paired with Garrison to help cover for him defensively.

To Winnipeg: Alex Edler and Mason Raymond
The Jets get a very good LHD who would be dynamite paired with Bogosian. They downgrade a bit on wing, and get a player who's due for a bounceback season.

What do you guys think? Any minor tweaks needed? Are basic needs filled?
Though i wouldn't mind getting ballard (bad contract, yes) I do think we really need an improvement on our left side d going forward, so i'd definitly say there's something to be done here, though shipping out postma just as he's ready to get his feet wet could really come back to bite us (and goes against jets publicly stated "plan").

as for the major deal, "a winger due for a bounce back?" i dunno, he historically looks like a .4 ppg player, historically, 53 points is the abnormal season, not the last two. I just don't think Mason will "bounce back", more like he has "bounced back" to what he is.

so you get Edler who's headed for free agency and raymond, for signed/controlled(RFA) Byfuglien and Little? ....player talent wise the values there, but Winnipegs getting the short end of the stick contact wise, and if we can resign Edler, we probably could have jsut waited till he hit UFA to get him. Again, talent wise i'd say you got the value very close, but the contract situation kinda throws this for a loop.

In short, decent proposals, and refreshing to not see some Bogo for scraps bull ****.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:40 AM
  #19
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As a Canucks fan I'm not a big fan of either deal (although I totally understand why Jets fans might also not be psyched about either).

In the first deal I think I might prefer Keith Ballard over Nik Antropov and Jordan Schroeder over Postma, especially since the Canucks are left with exactly four proven top four defensemen (none of which are iron men).

In the second deal I want no part of Dustin Byfuglien, I'd happily take Alex Edler at $6.2m (if that's what it took) over Byfuglien at $5.2m and Bryan Little isn't enough to bridge the gap.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:00 PM
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If I knew more about Postma the first deal might intrigue me. Definite no to deal #2.

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11-14-2012, 12:05 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Highly doubt the Jets do either deal. Jets weakspot is their top six, so the first move is a big no no.

Then in the second move... man that just doesn't make sense either.

Some people might say that Edler and Buff are a wash, but Little>>>>>> Rayond.

Sometimes I wonder if people come on here making proposals which greatly favour their team hoping that the other fanbase would go for it and then thinking that it would make it possible.
I'm not going to debate the merits of either of the OP's, however I do see the first deal as being the closest in terms of value and organizational needs. But to say Edler and Buff are a wash is asinine. Edler is a far superior defenseman. Offensively they might be a wash but in terms of overall defensive ability Edler and Byfuglien shouldn't be mentioned in the same conversation.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:14 PM
  #22
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I just spent the last 15 minutes on You Tube trying to confirm this, but it looks to me (and based on memory) that Garrison played the right side next to Campbell for most of the season (not just on the PP either). Most people have him pencilled in next to Edler to help solidify that pairing. I never heard anything on TEAM 1040 stating that he wasn't comfortable on the right side, what exactly did they say? If I were him I'd work on becoming comfortable, as he'll certainly get much bigger minutes if he does.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I'm not going to debate the merits of either of the OP's, however I do see the first deal as being the closest in terms of value and organizational needs. But to say Edler and Buff are a wash is asinine. Edler is a far superior defenseman. Offensively they might be a wash but in terms of overall defensive ability Edler and Byfuglien shouldn't be mentioned in the same conversation.
In what universe? Buff scored 4 more points last season. In 16 games less.

Say what you will about Buff, call him fat, bad at defense, incredibly fat, but there is no denying the man is great at producing points.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:21 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I just spent the last 15 minutes on You Tube trying to confirm this, but it looks to me (and based on memory) that Garrison played the right side next to Campbell for most of the season (not just on the PP either). Most people have him pencilled in next to Edler to help solidify that pairing. I never heard anything on TEAM 1040 stating that he wasn't comfortable on the right side, what exactly did they say? If I were him I'd work on becoming comfortable, as he'll certainly get much bigger minutes if he does.
He played the left with Campbell except for PP, and the 1040 interview was Bowness a couple days ago saying they would play him where he's comfortable (on the left). I think with an elite level shutdown guy, which Garrison has been the last two seasons, Edler should be fine on the right, as it shouldn't hinder his offense and Garrison should be able to cover the majority of lapses. I'm excited to see what that pairing is capable of.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:32 PM
  #25
vadim sharifijanov
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In what universe? Buff scored 4 more points last season. In 16 games less.

Say what you will about Buff, call him fat, bad at defense, incredibly fat, but there is no denying the man is great at producing points.
the underacknowledged thing going into next season (whenever that will be) is that we may need a RHS to replace salo. now, i'm not saying edler and garrison (both LHS) can't get it done on the PP. both have good hard shots-- and edler/ehrhoff has worked in the past.

another possibility for byfuglien is if edler/garrison works on the point, then byfuglien stands in front of the net on the PP and kesler slides down to the second unit, which would cut down on undue wear and tear for him, and possibly get the second unit back to the threat it was in '09-'10.

that said, i'm not crazy about adding an ES pylon to our blueline.

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