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D Seth Jones - Portland Winterhawks (2013 Draft)

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:07 PM
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
I agree your first quote 100% but disagree the way you are approaching your argument. Its over-exaggeration to prove a point.

No one in this thread is arguing that position is the only factor there is when deciding between players. Absolutely no one.

The main argument throughout this thread is Mackinnon versus Jones, a debate between two equally skilled players. Position comes into play here.

But your examples have nothing to do with said argument because they aren't close. There is no, as you put it "I hope everyone learned a valuable lesson here." because the examples have no base in the underlying debate here.

I think there is just miscommunication here.

The argument stemmed not from MacKinnon vs. Jones but from Jones vs. the next best forward.



Quote:
So if a team like Phoenix or Columbus, both with a very solid, young D corps with reinforcements in the prospect pool, are drafting second, so they take Jones or do they address a serious scoring deficiency with Monahan or Barkov?
This is where it stemmed from. The question was do you take Jones or a lesser talented forward who fits a need.

This is why I used the #2 pick, on the assumption that MacKinnon was out and it was Jones or these guys.

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11-12-2012, 03:18 PM
  #602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
You always go BPA. That's the rule for drafting. Most scouts believe MacKinnon will be a better player than Jones, so he'll get drafted first.
This is such a ridiculous comment. I have MacKinnon as my #1, but how do you know majority of these "scouts" prefer MacKinnon over Jones? Just because MacKinnon is "hyped" to go number 1 from different media sources, doesn't mean majority of scouts like MacKinnon at number one. I'm VERY sure that there are a bunch of NHL teams who would draft Jones over MacKinnon if they had the #1 overall pick.

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11-12-2012, 03:36 PM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The argument stemmed not from MacKinnon vs. Jones but from Jones vs. the next best forward.
Really? I might be mistaken, but I didn't see any implication or notion that Barkov or Monahan were being debated recently. I could very well be wrong but I thought it was a Mackinnion being reference when talked about who the Oilers would pick.

Anyways, this is just stupid. We both agree on the same point, the only we disagree on is the approach, meaning...this argument will go nowhere lol.

How about we just stick with this statement and shake hands?

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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
If they are smart they draft the best player. If the talent level is even, they you pick the best position.
Now the question going forward is, what do the rest of the posters consider even? Is Jones skilled enough to be at even talents with Mackinnon or vice versa? More interestingly, is Barkov talented enough to be "even" with Jones/Mackinnon?

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11-12-2012, 03:44 PM
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Really? I might be mistaken, but I didn't see any implication or notion that Barkov or Monahan were being debated recently. I could very well be wrong but I thought it was a Mackinnion being reference when talked about who the Oilers would pick.

Anyways, this is just stupid. We both agree on the same point, the only we disagree on is the approach, meaning...this argument will go nowhere lol.

How about we just stick with this statement and shake hands?



Now the question going forward is, what do the rest of the posters consider even? Is Jones skilled enough to be at even talents with Mackinnon or vice versa? More interestingly, is Barkov talented enough to be "even" with Jones/Mackinnon?
Post #579 I quoted it in my last post.

*shakes hand*

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Old
11-12-2012, 03:59 PM
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Post #579 I quoted it in my last post.

*shakes hand*
I know Loved your posts up to that point, but doesn't matter

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11-12-2012, 06:19 PM
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
I agree completely. I actually think Jones and Mackinnon are suffering from shiny new toy syndrome; I don't think either player is particularly elite as far as being top-rated draft prospects go, I don't see any signs that Mackinnon has greater potential than RNH or Hall for example, or that Jones will be better than Hedman or Larsson. I think the strength of this draft is that there is a lot of players who could be top 3 picks in another year, not that the best players are better than other years' top players
Most scouts will disagree with you there. Both Jones and MacKinnon are further ahead in their development at this stage than most top picks are and they have excellent full pro packages as well to be more than just #1 forward and Dmen on their teams in the snese that they have superstar potential (and more likely to reach it) than other top picks in most years.

I'm not a huge prospect hype guy and in general the shiny new toy thing does get overdone but these 2 players are really really special, not Sid or Mario special but just a notch below.

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11-12-2012, 06:24 PM
  #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Yes, I just happened to cherry pick every draft consecutively from 2003 to 2008.

But I'm glad you agree with me none the less.
In your example the only time the Dman was close (to the scouts who draft and rank them) was JJ and Ryan.

In this thread we are talking about Seth Jones who is clearly a step about everyone else not named Nathan. If you can find a pro scouting service to say otherwise, or heck even a scout, then make the comp but you probably won't so your comp wasn't comparable.

If you are talking about something else you really didn't make it clear.

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11-13-2012, 02:17 PM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
In your example the only time the Dman was close (to the scouts who draft and rank them) was JJ and Ryan.

In this thread we are talking about Seth Jones who is clearly a step about everyone else not named Nathan. If you can find a pro scouting service to say otherwise, or heck even a scout, then make the comp but you probably won't so your comp wasn't comparable.

If you are talking about something else you really didn't make it clear.
It was in response to the post, 579 that questioned whether a team like Columbus or Phoenix would pass on Jones in order to take a forward like Drouin or Barkov simply because they wanted a forward.

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11-13-2012, 03:00 PM
  #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
It was in response to the post, 579 that questioned whether a team like Columbus or Phoenix would pass on Jones in order to take a forward like Drouin or Barkov simply because they wanted a forward.
Ill agree with you on Drouin but Barkov is certainly playing his way into consideration, so I think it is a legitament question. With his size and the way he racking up points, it is no longer a clear cut top tier of Mackinnon and Jones, which makes the team's need for a forward very interesting

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11-13-2012, 03:20 PM
  #610
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Over the Jones trade from Everett.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Portland could be under investigation speculates TPS.

http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...e-clipped.html

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:47 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Over the Jones trade from Everett.
Send Jones to Everett!!!!

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Old
11-13-2012, 04:33 PM
  #612
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His first name is Seth

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11-13-2012, 05:02 PM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Ill agree with you on Drouin but Barkov is certainly playing his way into consideration, so I think it is a legitament question. With his size and the way he racking up points, it is no longer a clear cut top tier of Mackinnon and Jones, which makes the team's need for a forward very interesting
I have only seen Barkov play during the World Juniors, so if he is indeed closing in on Jones and making a case for being a similar talent that would change the equation. I simply don't know if he is or isn't.

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11-14-2012, 10:12 AM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Over the Jones trade from Everett.
Pretty bold to say it's directly the Jones trade. There's been speculation for years about Portland and a situation like this so I don't think your statement is necessarily 100% accurate.

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11-14-2012, 10:14 AM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Pretty bold to say it's directly the Jones trade. There's been speculation for years about Portland and a situation like this so I don't think your statement is necessarily 100% accurate.
I said that because I believe TPS speculates it could be over that trade.

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11-14-2012, 10:21 AM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I said that because I believe TPS speculates it could be over that trade.
I just listened to the piece they did on the air last night and Millard said it's not just about the Jones thing and that he doesn't want to taint the player. But there's more to it apparently than just that one trade.

The Bertaggia incident is also another thing they've been reprimanded for.


Last edited by R S: 11-14-2012 at 02:14 PM.
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11-14-2012, 11:42 AM
  #617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I just listened to the piece they did on the air last night and Millard said it's not just about the Jones thing and that he doesn't want to taint the player. But there's more too it apparently than just that one trade.

The Bertaggia incident is also another thing they've been reprimanded for.
RS can you please clear up for a guy who has no clue on whats going on?

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11-14-2012, 12:20 PM
  #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
RS can you please clear up for a guy who has no clue on whats going on?
Sure, no problem.

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11-14-2012, 03:05 PM
  #619
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Just heard Dean Millard on the Team1260. Sounds like Portland is allegedly on the hook for recruiting violations. One of which was apparently for a player who was on the roster last year. Someone got guaranteed four years of college paid for playing one game. Millard said five separate scouts have texted him telling him its about time. It is expected the punishment could consist of anything from a fine to a fine and suspension of the gm.

Heavy **** about to go down.

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11-14-2012, 04:14 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Just heard Dean Millard on the Team1260. Sounds like Portland is allegedly on the hook for recruiting violations. One of which was apparently for a player who was on the roster last year. Someone got guaranteed four years of college paid for playing one game. Millard said five separate scouts have texted him telling him its about time. It is expected the punishment could consist of anything from a fine to a fine and suspension of the gm.

Heavy **** about to go down.
I think this topic deserves it's own thread. Find it hard to believe it hasn't been started yet!

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11-14-2012, 06:48 PM
  #621
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Hypothetical question, IF Seth was Canadian is he good enough to make the WJC squad THIS year ?

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12-01-2012, 06:33 PM
  #622
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I wrote a couple words about Seth Jones (there's some video too): http://jrhockeyrecruit.com/2012/11/s...ting-report-2/

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12-01-2012, 06:49 PM
  #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byeyimini View Post
Hypothetical question, IF Seth was Canadian is he good enough to make the WJC squad THIS year ?
Absolutely. He'd probably be my first choice

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12-01-2012, 07:56 PM
  #624
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Absolutely. He'd probably be my first choice
High praise indeed ! ...I haven't seen him play yet, looking forward to it soon though !!

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Old
12-01-2012, 08:29 PM
  #625
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Originally Posted by byeyimini View Post
Hypothetical question, IF Seth was Canadian is he good enough to make the WJC squad THIS year ?
yeah, he would. he actually looked like he had a shot to make the US team last year (as a 17 yr old)...but got injured not long before the final roster was released and wouldn't have been able to play.

i think he certainly would be able to make the Cdn team this year (if he were canadian).

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