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Off-season Madness the 3rd: Jeffrey Loria taketh and Jeffrey Loria giveth away

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:48 PM
  #576
beer123
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
so johnson will want out? based on the chat
"Heard Johnson agent say Jays might not be his last time what do u see happening"

uhhhh what was the question?

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11-14-2012, 12:48 PM
  #577
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So? Not everyone is big on hipster stats. Majority of hardcore baseball fans don't know what WAR is.
No kidding...did you read my whole post or just cherry pick this portion? I share your sentiments...

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11-14-2012, 12:49 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by beer123 View Post
"Heard Johnson agent say Jays might not be his last time what do u see happening"

uhhhh what was the question?
his 'last stop' or final destination

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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
No kidding...did you read my whole post or just cherry pick this portion? I share your sentiments...
I'm very groggy today so I apologize if I missed something major

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11-14-2012, 12:50 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
it looks like the corner of a parking garage that someone peed on

edit: scratch that, it looks like it has an STD

Yeah, what an eyesore. lol (sarcasm)


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Old
11-14-2012, 12:51 PM
  #580
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Is there no such a thing as a NTC in Baseball?
There absolutely is, but Loria and the Marlins don't give them... because it would stop them from pulling this crap every few years.

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11-14-2012, 12:51 PM
  #581
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yeah, it looks great at night but during the day it's an eyesore.
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Yeah, what an eyesore. lol (sarcasm)

Do you know what night is?

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11-14-2012, 12:52 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
Do you know what night is?
I didn't see that part of your post. It seems as though two can play at that game.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:54 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
I didn't see that part of your post. It seems as though two can play at that game.
Well played, Mr. Ralph, well played indeed...

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #584
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There absolutely is, but Loria and the Marlins don't give them... because it would stop them from pulling this crap every few years.
Why would the Players sign these deals without them? No way comparable Hockey players would sign such deals.

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11-14-2012, 12:57 PM
  #585
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Platoon at DH for now: RHP- Lind, LHP- JPA

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11-14-2012, 12:59 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Why would the Players sign these deals without them? No way comparable Hockey players would sign such deals.
I guess they felt they were taking good payment for their market value, and that the team wanted to make a splash so they figured, "what are the odds we get traded next year? hell nawww"

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11-14-2012, 01:00 PM
  #587
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What's the timeline of putting grass in? I'm not sure if they need to have a long preparation before inserting the field or if they can just do it like that. But I really hope the Jays take that ****** turf out soon. May also prove to be an asset for the Argos too.
It'd probably take a full winter to set up the irrigation systems so that the place doesn't implode anytime we have to water the grass. And Beeston said they'd probably have to kick the Argos out if we got grass, because the grass would take too much of a beating with 9+ football games every year.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:01 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Ohio Jones View Post
Actually, it's complete nonsense. Rogers had spent handsomely on free agents through the 2000's under Ricciardi's direction, so they had clearly demonstrated that they were willing to spend on the team. They were always willing to do so if it gave them a winning product, because they're not stupid - they know that when it comes to sports other than the Leafs, Torontonians only come out for winners. And they know that a full Rogers Centre is a very profitable operation, particularly when combined with the impact of winning content on their other revenue channels.

But when Ricciardi's program failed to deliver the expected results, they made a smart business move and brought in a baseball operations team that had a plan for achieving sustainable success over the long term. There was one caveat: it would require blowing things up and going through a systematic rebuild of the organization, from the scouting department to the development coaches to the minor-league depth to, yes, the major league roster. And it would take time - during which process it did not make sense to tie up buckets of money on the MLB product. So they didn't.

Anthopolous and Beeston always maintained that this process would take until now to show results at the MLB level. They also confirmed - as did Rogers executives - that the dollars would be there for them when they needed them. And - lo and behold! - they are.

Skepticism is understandable: this is Toronto, after all, where sports fans have been held hostage by incompetent Leafs management for decades. But there's a big difference between being instinctively and subjectively distrusting of management and having an argument based in fact. The "Rogers is cheap" arguments were not based in fact, and were criticized accordingly.
Good post, I think you are mostly right. If anything, I let my emotions get in the way of an objective analysis. (This is what they teach me NOT to do in school lol). I am the type of person that wears my heart on my sleeve and am pretty passionate. Kudos to you for being a lot more calculating, objective, and for always replying to posts with fairly patient and well thought out answers. It is appreciated.

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11-14-2012, 01:02 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quik View Post
It'd probably take a full winter to set up the irrigation systems so that the place doesn't implode anytime we have to water the grass. And Beeston said they'd probably have to kick the Argos out if we got grass, because the grass would take too much of a beating with 9+ football games every year.
But the athletics and marlins both used to share the fields with their NFL counterparts.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:06 PM
  #590
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Arizona wants a shortstop, so barring a three-way the Jays are now out of any Upton talks.

Buehrle is great as a #3 starter, no need to swap him for Garza (unless he really is going to be upset over the Pit Bull ban...).

Bonifacio is a much better hitter than you'd expect to see batting ninth - it's his defensive limitations (especially in the infield) that keep him from being a lock for a starting role. Even so, I can see him as the starting LF. I think people will be pleasantly surprised when they see what we got in him.

Ibanez... he certainly came up big in a couple of games this post-season, but the Jays already acquired a platoon mate for Lind at the DH spot by picking up Buck. The numbers between them should be pretty respectable for the position, and won't cost any more assets or cash.

I admit I do still very much want a big LH bat, but with a payroll hovering just under $120 million, I don't know how much more room Anthopolous can possibly have to add.

Guthrie... again, it depends how much money Anthopolous has to work with. I'm perfectly content with Happ as the fifth starter, but I'd like them to have a swingman under contract that they can look to for long relief/spot starts (basically what Villanueva provided last year). Unless a controllable guy like Ogando comes back in an Arencibia trade, I can see waiting until Februrary to see what arms are still available on the FA market (like a Scott Feldman?), as asking prices typically go down after New Year's and we'd want to get somebody on the cheap if at all possible.
Wow. That was the most polite and thoughtful deconstruction of a trade idea post that I have ever read. Kudos.

I just worry that Buehrle won't be happy here, so back to Chicago might work. Plus I want Lind gone. Do not want to watch that movie any more.

With Guthrie, I seem to recall every time he pitched here with Baltimore, he lit us up. Maybe he likes the Dome?

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:09 PM
  #591
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This was an incredible deal on so many levels. Short term, it obviously addresses big weaknesses on the team, but just as importantly it shows that the Jays are willing to spend to compete and that AA is capable of making big deals to turn prospects into MLB talent, not just deals the opposite.

I'm a big fan of AA and this move is a fantastic one in my books. All deals are gambles are maybe this one won't work out perfectly, hell maybe the prospects he gave away will turn out to be all stars and hindsight will say it was a bad deal. But right now, this such a strong move for the organization.

The guy is a big time GM. Again, time will tell if it works out, but he has assembled a hell of a group of players in Toronto, and done it just at the moment that the Yankees and Boston are at the weakest they've been in a long time. Now he needs to find the right manager.

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11-14-2012, 01:09 PM
  #592
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But the athletics and marlins both used to share the fields with their NFL counterparts.
"Used to" being the operative words. My understanding is that neither team found it an optimal solution, which is why they don't do it any more. And that's the NFL, which could pay for the entire CFL in one commercial break. Why Rogers would hold the Jays hostage to the Argos is beyond me.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #593
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It'd probably take a full winter to set up the irrigation systems so that the place doesn't implode anytime we have to water the grass. And Beeston said they'd probably have to kick the Argos out if we got grass, because the grass would take too much of a beating with 9+ football games every year.
plus they'd have to stop concerts, right? thats a bigger revenue issue than worthless argos games

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11-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #594
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But the athletics and marlins both used to share the fields with their NFL counterparts.
and both stadiums' fields looked awful for having done it. Never mind that the A's were basically reluctant tenants, sharing with the Raiders because they had to, even though McAfee/o.co/insert current "it" software company name here Stadium was built for football and had a "you'll take what we give you and like it" attitude toward the A's concerns over its baseball suitability.

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11-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #595
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I'm still so giddy.

Retaining Johnson would be so great for this franchise.

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11-14-2012, 01:13 PM
  #596
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If the Jays can convince Johnson to sign here, could really do a lot for the Jays in terms of free agency. Players don't really want to go somewhere, if they don't think they can win there.. Hopefully Johnson sticks around and the Jays become a long-term perennial playoff contender, because the cupboards are still stocked with prospects.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:16 PM
  #597
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So if Johnson indeed wants out here is one for you to all chew on. Texas needs a starter and a catcher. Oh wait we have Johnson and JPA or Buck. But wait we have a need for a 2B!!!!!! Kinsler anyone....

Kinsler
Holland

for

Johnson
Buck

Talk about a middle infield!!! Wow.

How about this lineup:

SS- Reyes
2B - Kinsler
RF - Bautista
1B - Encarnacion
3B - Lawrie
CF - Rasmus
DH - Lind/Davis
C - JPA
LF - Bonafide (new guy dont know how to spell his last name)


Morrow
Holland
Buerhle
Romero
Happ

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:17 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by BlueForever View Post
So if Johnson indeed wants out here is one for you to all chew on. Texas needs a starter and a catcher. Oh wait we have Johnson and JPA or Buck. But wait we have a need for a 2B!!!!!! Kinsler anyone....

Kinsler
Holland

for

Johnson
Buck

Talk about a middle infield!!! Wow.

How about this lineup:

SS- Reyes
2B - Kinsler
RF - Bautista
1B - Encarnacion
3B - Lawrie
CF - Rasmus
DH - Lind/Davis
C - JPA
LF - Bonafide (new guy dont know how to spell his last name)


Morrow
Holland
Buerhle
Romero
Happ
What happened to Izturis?

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:18 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by BlueForever View Post
So if Johnson indeed wants out here is one for you to all chew on. Texas needs a starter and a catcher. Oh wait we have Johnson and JPA or Buck. But wait we have a need for a 2B!!!!!! Kinsler anyone....

Kinsler
Holland

for

Johnson
Buck

Talk about a middle infield!!! Wow.

How about this lineup:

SS- Reyes
2B - Kinsler
RF - Bautista
1B - Encarnacion
3B - Lawrie
CF - Rasmus
DH - Lind/Davis
C - JPA
LF - Bonafide (new guy dont know how to spell his last name)


Morrow
Holland
Buerhle
Romero
Happ

Where is this nonsense that Johnson "wants out"? From the thread, it sounds like he wants to be re-signed as per the agent. It's way too early to even commment on that IMO.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:20 PM
  #600
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I hope we don't trade Johnson. Why trade a guy who is exactly what we need when he is on his game... a top 10 ace pitcher.

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