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We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:30 PM
  #876
pepty
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Originally Posted by Wretched Oil View Post
No doubt!

I'm now convinced that Fehr's end game is not only his professional legacy, but his financial one. Greed and pride rolled up into one!
Evidently his predecessor, Millerr at the MLBPA did not think that the director of the PA should make too much money so he kept his compensation low and Fehr, though he made more than Miller, kept his lower than it might have been but had a payoff when he left.

The present MLBPA director is making a million as well, from what I can see the NFLPA director makes 1.8 million. the NBAPA director 3 million and Fehr whatever he makes, 3 million or more.

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11-14-2012, 01:31 PM
  #877
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walsh is getting paid by the Fehr's right? No one can be that far up someone's butt without cash involved. Or is it the lure of a no-cap system keeping him rattling off idiocy?

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11-14-2012, 01:32 PM
  #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
If anyone cares, Cox is owning Walsh again on twitter about the Kelly report.
Thanks.Fun times.

I would have thought Walsh would have obtained some new talking
points from the PA after last nights thrashing.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:35 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
He didn't question the IQ of the players.

And where are all of these educated players? Crosby, Toews, and the other most outspoken players certainly do not have a degree. Those silent ones are the ones we need to speak up. Miller was quoted a few months ago and has been silenced since.
They're smart enough to keep quiet in public.

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11-14-2012, 01:38 PM
  #880
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Anyone care to post the new updates abut Walsh/Cox? Don't get twitter at work

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11-14-2012, 01:39 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Fugu won't accept those numbers. I understand why, even if I do not agree with him as in my mind its the best numbers we have.

But there is no evidence to the contrary (supporting his position), so we can agree to disagree.
I wouldn't accept them either, the report doesn't indicate the way the remaining 27 teams break down. One of those 27 teams could have lost $70 million and the remaining 26 made $1 million each. It's too vague.


Last edited by tbcwpg: 11-14-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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11-14-2012, 01:40 PM
  #882
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Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
This might be a can of worms or completely irrelevant..... but maybe all future contracts should be tied directly into the length of the current CBA that is in place.

This way all player contracts would expire alongside the CBA. If a new CBA has an 8 year term the 8 years would be max. length contract. If a players contract expires one year before the CBA expires then said player could only sign a one year deal... etc.

Not sure if that benefits either side of course.
No way either side goes for that. The owners want to hold onto the players they drafted and marketed, while the NHLPA doesn't want this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
So everyone would be a UFA at once? Wow, that's sure he interesting, to say the least....
If all the players hit free agency simultaneously, their price drops significantly for everyone but the very cream of the crop. Scarcity of free agents is what causes the lucrative deals for UFAs right now. The fact that there's only one or two Ryan Suter and Zach Parise-calibre players on the market at any given time is how bidding wars start. Mid-level players, in particular, benefit from this as they can quickly become highly valued targets on a barren market. If you flood the market with players, there will be plenty of bidding for guys like Crosby, Giroux, Malkin, Ovechkin, Lundqvist, and Weber but the rest of the players would see a massive decline in demand.

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11-14-2012, 01:41 PM
  #883
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Gary Bettman is the best thing that has ever happened to both the owners and players financially...although probably not for the game itself.
I can't see how Bettman is the best thing to happen to the players financially. He made a generation of players lose an entire season's pay, then had the stones to force a 24% rollback for the next season (one of the main kick in the nuts to the PA that lead to Fehr being here).

Now Bettman is using his tired old tactics to strong arm them into taking more cuts. Then people wonder why the players hate him and brought in an equally detestable man to fight him? As I said, hate Fehr all you want, but understand Bettman is THE reason he is heading up the PA.

We also apparently have half of the teams losing money in the system Bettman lost an entire season over, because he insisted it would ensure cost certainity. Now everyone... Players, owners, fans, etc have to deal with yet another lockout because of another error in Bettman's judgement.

I'm pretty sure having a commissioner like Tagliabue, who was a great visionary and understood the necessity for labor peace, that the NHL would of been better off both financially for the players and owners. Most of all, the league we all love wouldn't have become such a laughingstock and easy punch line.

Instead, we all sit back and worry if Bettman's NHL is stupid enough to lose yet another season... While we bicker about which side is right and which side is wrong... No one with any common sense and true understanding of the situation, can ever deny that all roads lead back to Bettman. Period.

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11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Riddick View Post
Anyone care to post the new updates abut Walsh/Cox? Don't get twitter at work
yah plz, this is about as entertaining its going to get for me this hockey season. Besides, walsh blocked me because I called him a hack writer. Who would of thought the truth gets u blocked these days

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11-14-2012, 01:46 PM
  #885
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Actually I don't agree- the average number of players in the NHL (by percent) with college degrees is pretty well equivalent to the national averages for both the USA and Canada, around 28%. Most players (around 90%) in the NHL who were born in the US have degrees; Canadian born players are less at about 20% while European players are essentially at 0%. This compares to the NBA at 21% and the NFL at 46%. Surprisingly, few players in MLB have college degrees; the percentage being 4%. So a pro NHL player is generally as well educated as the general populace in both the US and Canada (and likely as well educated or better educated than most posters on this board, myself included). This should not be surprising, given the opportunities their skills provide in getting an education.
MLB players tend to not have degrees because they have to choose between their NCAA eligibility and the minor leagues. Given that the NCAA is essentially the minor/development league for the NBA and NFL, there is incentive for many players in those sports to remain in school.

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11-14-2012, 01:47 PM
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I can't see how Bettman is the best thing to happen to the players financially. He made a generation of players lose an entire season's pay, then had the stones to force a 24% rollback for the next season (one of the main kick in the nuts to the PA that lead to Fehr being here).

Now Bettman is using his tired old tactics to strong arm them into taking more cuts. Then people wonder why the players hate him and brought in an equally detestable man to fight him? As I said, hate Fehr all you want, it understand Bettman is THE reason he is heading up the PA.

We also apparently have half of the teams losing money in the system Bettman lost an entire season over, because he insisted it would ensure cost certainity. Now everyone... Players, owners, fans, etc have to deal with yet another lockout because of another error in Bettman's judgement.

I'm pretty sure having a commissioner like Tagliabue, who was a great visionary and understood the necessity for labor peace, that the NHL would of been better off both financially for the players and owners. Most of all, the league we all love wouldn't have become such a laughingstock and easy punch line.

Instead, we all sit back and worry if Bettman's NHL is stupid enough to lose yet another season... While we bicker about which side is right and which side is wrong... All roads lead back to Bettman. Period.
This has to be the worst post ever made period.

4 Points against you...
Shawn Horcoff makes $ 6 Million a year.
Revenues are the highest they have ever been.
The Winter Classic was created.
Expansion has grown the NHLPA exponentially due to Bettman.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:48 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I can't see how Bettman is the best thing to happen to the players financially. He made a generation of players lose an entire season's pay, then had the stones to force a 24% rollback for the next season (one of the main kick in the nuts to the PA that lead to Fehr being here).

Now Bettman is using his tired old tactics to strong arm them into taking more cuts. Then people wonder why the players hate him and brought in an equally detestable man to fight him? As I said, hate Fehr all you want, but understand Bettman is THE reason he is heading up the PA.

We also apparently have half of the teams losing money in the system Bettman lost an entire season over, because he insisted it would ensure cost certainity. Now everyone... Players, owners, fans, etc have to deal with yet another lockout because of another error in Bettman's judgement.

I'm pretty sure having a commissioner like Tagliabue, who was a great visionary and understood the necessity for labor peace, that the NHL would of been better off both financially for the players and owners. Most of all, the league we all love wouldn't have become such a laughingstock and easy punch line.

Instead, we all sit back and worry if Bettman's NHL is stupid enough to lose yet another season... While we bicker about which side is right and which side is wrong... No one with any common sense and true understanding of the situation, can ever deny that all roads lead back to Bettman. Period.


I'm not sure how you can say this. Tagliabue only has labor peace because the NFL players get screwed in comparison by their CBA. If you swapped PT and bettman, same circumstances we'd most likely be in the same situation.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:49 PM
  #888
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I wonder if the players are optimistic that a deal will be made soon because they think the owners will break or because they think NHLPA will abandon their insistence on delinkage.

It will take one of those two things.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:53 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
I wouldn't accept them either, the report doesn't indicate the way the remaining 27 teams break down. One of those 27 teams could have lost $45 million and the remaining 26 made $1 million each. It's too vague.
Yes it does.

The article links to here:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/

I wouldn't go around preaching these numbers as gospel, but they're the best numbers we have available, so I use them as a starting point or measuring stick if you will. I know forbes isn't reliable as Pierre Macguire , but its sadly the best we have and the only numbers worth citing.

Additionally, there was a recent article in the Edmonton journal in which someone from the Oilers ownership group claimed 7 teams had losses of at least $24 MM, with one of those teams losing close to $50MM (assumption is that team is PHX).

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:53 PM
  #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I can't see how Bettman is the best thing to happen to the players financially. He made a generation of players lose an entire season's pay, then had the stones to force a 24% rollback for the next season (one of the main kick in the nuts to the PA that lead to Fehr being here).

Now Bettman is using his tired old tactics to strong arm them into taking more cuts. Then people wonder why the players hate him and brought in an equally detestable man to fight him? As I said, hate Fehr all you want, but understand Bettman is THE reason he is heading up the PA.

We also apparently have half of the teams losing money in the system Bettman lost an entire season over, because he insisted it would ensure cost certainity. Now everyone... Players, owners, fans, etc have to deal with yet another lockout because of another error in Bettman's judgement.

I'm pretty sure having a commissioner like Tagliabue, who was a great visionary and understood the necessity for labor peace, that the NHL would of been better off both financially for the players and owners. Most of all, the league we all love wouldn't have become such a laughingstock and easy punch line.

Instead, we all sit back and worry if Bettman's NHL is stupid enough to lose yet another season... While we bicker about which side is right and which side is wrong... No one with any common sense and true understanding of the situation, can ever deny that all roads lead back to Bettman. Period.
Okay, understand that Fehr is the reason the players will miss out on an entire season's pay, and likely get a lower offer this summer.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:54 PM
  #891
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
If anyone cares, Cox is owning Walsh again on twitter about the Kelly report.
I may have started it with my tweet.

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Old
11-14-2012, 01:56 PM
  #892
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Fehr was named acting exec director in 1983 and exec director 2 years later. Fehr did settle the 2 day MLB strike in 1985. Fehr did settle a MLB lockout in 1990. Fehr negotiated CBAs in 1997,2002 and 2006. No games lost.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...rk_stopppages/
People are blind to facts like this. Fehr's legacy isn't all that bad in comparison to a guy like Bettman.

Fehr will take a tougher stance and fight tooth and nail but he's not the big bad boogeyman many make him out to be. The bigger badder boogeyman is sitting across the table from him.

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11-14-2012, 01:56 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Thank you Alex Anthopolous for taking my mind off the lockout entirely for one night. Absolutely stoked and could care less about the CBA talks right now.
That trade was absolutely crazy!

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11-14-2012, 01:56 PM
  #894
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I am really surprised that Walsh would stoop so low as to post one of the slurs against Kelly later proved to be false .

That he did shows how unable he is to answer why the Kelly report is kept under lock and seal.

It further shows that the pressure from Damien Cox is causing a few tight collars over at PA headquarters .

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11-14-2012, 02:01 PM
  #895
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any news today? or more posturing?

sounds like we're playing the no talking game for a bit, until the PA actually comes back to agree to some of these things.

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11-14-2012, 02:02 PM
  #896
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yah plz, this is about as entertaining its going to get for me this hockey season. Besides, walsh blocked me because I called him a hack writer. Who would of thought the truth gets u blocked these days
You have a loose definition of the truth...

Walsh is an agent, not a writer.

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11-14-2012, 02:03 PM
  #897
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It's kinda erie and odd that a lot of people are saying that this could be done in a few weeks, and not to read into the negative turn of negotiations.

I'm still sticking by December 1st when we will see hockey once again!!!

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I can't see how Bettman is the best thing to happen to the players financially. He made a generation of players lose an entire season's pay, then had the stones to force a 24% rollback for the next season (one of the main kick in the nuts to the PA that lead to Fehr being here).

Now Bettman is using his tired old tactics to strong arm them into taking more cuts. Then people wonder why the players hate him and brought in an equally detestable man to fight him? As I said, hate Fehr all you want, but understand Bettman is THE reason he is heading up the PA.

We also apparently have half of the teams losing money in the system Bettman lost an entire season over, because he insisted it would ensure cost certainity. Now everyone... Players, owners, fans, etc have to deal with yet another lockout because of another error in Bettman's judgement.

I'm pretty sure having a commissioner like Tagliabue, who was a great visionary and understood the necessity for labor peace, that the NHL would of been better off both financially for the players and owners. Most of all, the league we all love wouldn't have become such a laughingstock and easy punch line.

Instead, we all sit back and worry if Bettman's NHL is stupid enough to lose yet another season... While we bicker about which side is right and which side is wrong... No one with any common sense and true understanding of the situation, can ever deny that all roads lead back to Bettman. Period.
This is the best post I've seen in this thread thus far. The real cause of the lockout is Bettman period.

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by dubs View Post
This has to be the worst post ever made period.

4 Points against you...
Shawn Horcoff makes $ 6 Million a year.Revenues are the highest they have ever been.
The Winter Classic was created.
Expansion has grown the NHLPA exponentially due to Bettman.
are you serious??

Is he the Bobby Holik of the 2012 lockout?

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Old
11-14-2012, 02:05 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by dubs View Post
This has to be the worst post ever made period.

4 Points against you...
Shawn Horcoff makes $ 6 Million a year.
Revenues are the highest they have ever been.
The Winter Classic was created.
Expansion has grown the NHLPA exponentially due to Bettman.
Gratton got a 7m signing bonus from the Flyers under the old system. Sakic, Roy, etc where pulling down 10m a season.

Revenue doesn't equal profit... Please.

Didn't they just cancel the Winter classic and embarrass the league again?

Expansion has been an utter failure under Bettman. That is well known

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