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HHoF Poll

View Poll Results: Who would you vote for for the HHoF? You can vote for more than one.
Chris Chelios 158 91.33%
Scott Niedermayer 138 79.77%
Rob Blake 63 36.42%
Rod Brind'Amour 18 10.40%
Keith Tkachuk 12 6.94%
Paul Kariya 41 23.70%
Owen Nolan 4 2.31%
Brendan Shanahan 134 77.46%
Eric Lindros 111 64.16%
Dave Andreychuk 7 4.05%
Jeremy Roenick 22 12.72%
Theoren Fleury 45 26.01%
Markus Naslund 14 8.09%
Curtis Joseph 18 10.40%
Tom Barrasso 25 14.45%
Phil Housley 26 15.03%
Mike Vernon 13 7.51%
John LeClair 21 12.14%
Sergei Makarov 116 67.05%
Guy Carbonneau 36 20.81%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:32 PM
  #26
Kloparren
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Paul Kariya is not borderline for me. He's a definite. He was one of the 6 or 7 most dangerous fwds in the world for at least a 5 year span when there were so many other greats in the game.

He's similar to Bure for me, didn't have longevity but could still be called one of the world's best for a decent time period and was a prestigious player for almost his whole career.

His problem of course was that he played pretty much his whole career in Anaheim who were pretty obscure until that 02/03 playoff run and then when he got healthier for a couple good seasons he played on Nashville (not the best place to get high stats or media attention).

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11-14-2012, 01:02 PM
  #27
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The biggest knock against Kariya is that he didn't win anything. And later in his career (Nashville and St Louis) went after the hard cash instead of trying to win something on a better team.

Looking back he has 4 really elite years when he was one of the best. Then another 4 when he was around ppg. So he had 8 very good and healthy seasons in his career. But we must also consider that besides offense he didn't bring much else.

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11-14-2012, 01:37 PM
  #28
vadim sharifijanov
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i'm starting to think with selanne's re-emergence post-lockout we're starting to forgot how good kariya was. the opposite was true pre-lockout, and also during their primes in anaheim, where kariya got the lion's share of the credit and accolades.

in truth, i think they were pretty close to equals. obviously, those years are mostly what kariya has to hang his hat on while selanne had a much longer and fuller career.

i don't know that any of this is an argument for kariya being a hall of famer, or whether this is just me seeing him starting to get underrated. compare kariya with lafontaine. playoffs aside (and lafontaine was no theo fleury, though he did score an equally famous OT goal one year), kariya is the better player. on the other hand, if peak dominance is the metric that the argument for kariya hangs on, he has to wait behind eric in that line. i mean, kariya did next to nothing in the playoffs. almost nothing.

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11-14-2012, 01:55 PM
  #29
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
compare kariya with lafontaine. playoffs aside (and lafontaine was no theo fleury, though he did score an equally famous OT goal one year), kariya is the better player.
Difficulties in comparing a winger to a center aside, I think this is far from conclusive.

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11-14-2012, 02:08 PM
  #30
vadim sharifijanov
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Difficulties in comparing a winger to a center aside, I think this is far from conclusive.
i just went back and looked at kariya's hart record, which is a lot thinner than i'd remembered. you may be right here. but at least in terms of scoring placements, kariya is easily ahead.

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11-14-2012, 02:44 PM
  #31
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i just went back and looked at kariya's hart record, which is a lot thinner than i'd remembered. you may be right here. but at least in terms of scoring placements, kariya is easily ahead.
that is game played driven though. On the ice, I don't think many would say Kariya was better.

I'm sure if you look at their per-game stats during their most lucrative periods you'd find Lafontaine comfortably ahead.

From there you'd have to determine whether x PPG from a center is better than 0.85x PPG from a winger. That's the harder part!

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11-14-2012, 03:21 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i'm starting to think with selanne's re-emergence post-lockout we're starting to forgot how good kariya was.
Selanne might have something to do with it. But I still believe that the main reason why we are starting forget is lack of hardware. Just two Lady Byng trophies and it's not like this award is valued by many. Also a Hart runner-up.

In the end:

No Art Ross
No Hart
No Cups
No great playoff performances

If I think about, then my picture of Kariya is something like this:

Elite offensive player, who scored a bunch of points for Anaheim. Went to powerhouse Colorado and flopped badly. Went to highest bidder (Nashville, St Louis). Retired without much noise.

So what's his legacy and achievements? Several regular seasons with high point totals. That's it.

If other people also remember him in similar way, then no wonder we are starting to forget.

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Old
11-14-2012, 04:30 PM
  #33
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Easy to tell who those 6 are...IMO Kariya has a pretty strong case. Why not include him?...Not saying he's as easy a choice as the other 6, but IMO he is clear HHOF caliber in the sense that there was a good stretch where he was among the best of the best in the league. Is there a forward like that who's not in the HHOF? Also, throw him some bonus points for his Asian heritage and Lady Byngs.
I don't know here. Those Lady Byngs are nice, and really it is a nice award and if you looked back at it you'd be surprised just how many tough players or players we consider to be clutch performers that actually won it. But I don't think it's a deal breaker either. His Asian heritage shouldn't be a deal breaker either. He was born in British Columbia. Kariya was Canadian and in reality we can go through hoards of Hall of Famers where their parents/grandparents weren't born in Canada. Grant Fuhr got in because he was good enough to get in. I suspect Jarome Iginla will face the same prospect (although there might be a few who disagree). If his heritage is brought up as an argument for Kariya's induction then that means we're running out of things for him.

I too was impressed with his reign near the top of the NHL. But he also had opportunities to thrive and didn't. The holdout in 1997-'98, not playing in the 1996 World Cup and 1998 Olympics because of injury. The woeful playoff record which is probably as bas as Dionne's if not worse. The opportunity to ride a hot goalie in 2003 only to surprisingly not be a huge factor in the postseason. Then the quick fall from grace at a rather young age. I don't know, the deeper I look into his career the harder I see him in there eventually.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:16 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I don't know here. Those Lady Byngs are nice, and really it is a nice award and if you looked back at it you'd be surprised just how many tough players or players we consider to be clutch performers that actually won it. But I don't think it's a deal breaker either. His Asian heritage shouldn't be a deal breaker either. He was born in British Columbia. Kariya was Canadian and in reality we can go through hoards of Hall of Famers where their parents/grandparents weren't born in Canada. Grant Fuhr got in because he was good enough to get in. I suspect Jarome Iginla will face the same prospect (although there might be a few who disagree). If his heritage is brought up as an argument for Kariya's induction then that means we're running out of things for him.

I too was impressed with his reign near the top of the NHL. But he also had opportunities to thrive and didn't. The holdout in 1997-'98, not playing in the 1996 World Cup and 1998 Olympics because of injury. The woeful playoff record which is probably as bas as Dionne's if not worse. The opportunity to ride a hot goalie in 2003 only to surprisingly not be a huge factor in the postseason. Then the quick fall from grace at a rather young age. I don't know, the deeper I look into his career the harder I see him in there eventually.
I agree, Paul looked klike a lock for the HHOF then injuries derailed that.

I disagree on Iggy though, he is a lock for the HHOF, if there is any argument against that I'd like to hear it. I know that you think he is a HHOF just not sure on why anyone would disagree.

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11-14-2012, 11:52 PM
  #35
seventieslord
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I agree, Paul looked klike a lock for the HHOF then injuries derailed that.

I disagree on Iggy though, he is a lock for the HHOF, if there is any argument against that I'd like to hear it. I know that you think he is a HHOF just not sure on why anyone would disagree.
same here.

Iggy's a lock, and it has nothing to do with race.

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11-15-2012, 02:34 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I agree, Paul looked klike a lock for the HHOF then injuries derailed that.

I disagree on Iggy though, he is a lock for the HHOF, if there is any argument against that I'd like to hear it. I know that you think he is a HHOF just not sure on why anyone would disagree.
You don't here it on here too often, but the odd person might not like his postseason resume. It could be a lot better, but like Thornton's it isn't enough to keep him out. Too many great seasons for them to ignore.

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07-08-2013, 01:29 AM
  #37
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I can't wait to see who gets in. I predict Niedermayer, Chelios, Shanahan, and Lindros with Rob Blake as my dark horse.

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07-08-2013, 01:35 AM
  #38
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ANYONE BUT Rob Blake...

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07-08-2013, 01:48 AM
  #39
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My prediction is Niedermayer, Chelios, Shanahan and 4th darkhorse who doesn't deserve it.

Out of the pollnames I think
Chelios
Niedermayer
Blake
Shanahan
Lindros
Makarov
deserve it for sure.

Barrasso and Joseph are hurt by being goalies (and Tom by his character) essentially.
I'd induct Kariya most likely, I don't know about LeClair.

I don't think any of the other names on the list belong, but I acutally predict that one of them gets in this year regardless.


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Old
07-08-2013, 06:15 AM
  #40
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Chelios and Niedermayer are locks for me. The rest are tougher.

I have a tough time with Eric Lindros. One of the most dominant players i've seen in his prime but injuries, some bad years in the end of his career and his off ice issues way him down. He has the Hart and some great PPG-seasons. In my opinion a much better player than Kariya in the 90's.

I like Brind'Amour a lot. Not the most talented one but two Selkes and some great playoff performances. Lindros and Kariya outclass him in their primes but Brind'Amours has a better reputation and longevity.

If anyone is to beat Chelios, Niedermayer, Lindros and Kariya it's Brind'Amour for my part.

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07-08-2013, 07:30 AM
  #41
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Chelios and Makarov should be on everybodys list. For me Lindros also should be the surest of things.

Would say that Naslund and Kariya are the ones who don´t get enough votes. Quite equal players for my part. They both were the two best leftwingers in the game for a couple of years. One should probably place LeClair there too. Even if he never was talked about "one of the best in the game" as both Naslund and Kariya was for 2-3 seasons.
In that perspective I think Shanahan is getting "too many" votes. Sure he had a greater career, more healthy and played on greater teams. But in my mind he didn´t peak as high. But I over all put much less value in "career" over "peak" than others do.

Also think Rob Blake is overvalued. To a degree so is Niedermayer, even if he for sure is a lock. I think both there peaks are the opposite of Kariyas and Naslunds. Overvalued that is.

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07-08-2013, 08:30 AM
  #42
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I think these should NOT be in the HHOF

Owen Nolan
Jeremy Roenick
Theoren Fleury
Markus Naslund
Curtis Joseph
Phil Housley
Mike Vernon

Everyone else should. I also think Makarov is overdue. One of the (if not the) best RWs in mid-80s.

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Old
07-08-2013, 09:22 AM
  #43
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Sergei Makarov.

I voted only one because he's a tier higher than everyone else and it's the biggest shame he ain't in the Hall.

Shanny, Nidermayer and Chelios will get in, no doubt. But they are lesser all-time greats in comparison to a Makarov.


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07-08-2013, 10:25 AM
  #44
Killion
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Makarov
Chelios
Shanahan
Lindros
Vernon
Barrasso

I'd also be ok with;

Joseph
Blake
Brind'Amour

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07-08-2013, 11:37 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Sergei Makarov.

I voted only one because he's a tier higher than everyone else and it's the biggest shame he ain't in the Hall.

Shanny, Nidermayer and Chelios will get in, no doubt. But they are lesser all-time greats in comparison to a Makarov.

I think Chelios is in the same tier but otherwise u are correct

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07-08-2013, 02:27 PM
  #46
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Why is Niedermayer thought by some to be better than Chelios? Not here mind you. But by casual fans and some media. Just read and article on tsn and it made it out like nieds is a stone cold lock but Chelios is one of a handful with a strong case. Then in the comments section fans are basically parroting the same thing. Is Chelios hurt by his longevity and forgotten for the player he actually was?

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07-08-2013, 02:28 PM
  #47
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I think Fleury should get in. To accomplish what he did, played over a thousand games mostly in a low scoring era of hockey, over a point per game despite that, and to do it as a 5'6 player on top of all the adversity he had overcome in his life.

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07-08-2013, 02:36 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Why is Niedermayer thought by some to be better than Chelios? Not here mind you. But by casual fans and some media. Just read and article on tsn and it made it out like nieds is a stone cold lock but Chelios is one of a handful with a strong case. Then in the comments section fans are basically parroting the same thing. Is Chelios hurt by his longevity and forgotten for the player he actually was?
Fans who only paid close attention to hockey since 2005.

When they both get in first ballot, I'll be annoyed if the media acts like Niedermayer is the one headlining the class.

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07-08-2013, 02:38 PM
  #49
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Looking at the poll results, I'm really surprised by how few people voted Tom Barrasso.

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07-08-2013, 03:18 PM
  #50
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Fans who only paid close attention to hockey since 2005.

When they both get in first ballot, I'll be annoyed if the media acts like Niedermayer is the one headlining the class.
Im pretty sure they will.

I will be shocked if Lindros makes it in. I hope he does but I think it will be Blake as the 4th inductee.

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